what increase can I expect in my ftp over winter

Tom Dean

Argument by 'air 'quotes' :roll:

How brave of you to come on here under a pseudonym, accuse professional people of dishonesty, and single out an individual not previously mentioned and totally OT. Nice work

imposter2.0

Trev has many disguises - none of which are particularly good...

BenderRodriguez

Tom Dean wrote:

Argument by 'air 'quotes'

Do you mean an unlinked quote? I did say 'from the link given earlier'. Here's the link...

http://www.pbscience.com/index.php/trai ... e-training

Tom Dean wrote:

How brave of you to come on here under a pseudonym, accuse professional people of dishonesty, and single out an individual not previously mentioned and totally OT. Nice work

I effectively did no more than agree with meanredspider, Charlie Potatoes and Imposter...

As to mentioning Coggan, I was just giving an example of someone who would disagree with what the 'PBscience team' have argued with reference to endurance. I didn't say that Coggan was wrong, merely that they can't both be right!

BenderRodriguez

meanredspider wrote:

the reason these debates are pretty pointless is that, whilst we can land a fridge on a speeding rock a zillion miles away, we don't know the best ways for everyone to get fit. We are all too different even if we do understand what works for some people.

I love how, in these debates, people reach for the scientific papers like Wild West gun slingers. Have I seen one example of something definitive yet? No, not once. We can't even decide what's good for us to eat. Let's be honest with ourselves.

In case I have misunderstood the implications of what you say, do you think that those offering professional coaching services are somehow an exception to the above?

BenderRodriguez

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Good points well made.

Out of interest, do you think that those offering professional coaching services know 'the best ways for everyone to get fit' and have 'definitive' answers or, due to the current state of the science, are they in the same boat as everyone else?

charlie_potatoes

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Good points well made.

Out of interest, do you think that those offering professional coaching services know 'the best ways for everyone to get fit' and have 'definitive' answers or, due to the current state of the science, are they in the same boat as everyone else?

meanredspider wrote:

even if we do understand what works for some people.

I would expect a decent professional to find out what works for me if I was paying him. I would not expect to find that out on this forum.

BenderRodriguez

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

I would expect a decent professional to find out what works for me if I was paying him.

How? By trial and error perhaps? You could do that yourself!

Also, how would you identify a 'decent' professional, when there is disagreement over even something as seemingly simple as whether one's long-term endurance is effectively determined by ones FTP or not? Previously, you seemed to agree with the claim that there is no definitive understanding of such issues. If so, isn't any 'professional' quite likely to be wrong on many key issues, and so of limited value?

charlie_potatoes

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

I would expect a decent professional to find out what works for me if I was paying him.

How? By trial and error perhaps? You could do that yourself!

Also, how would you identify a 'decent' professional, when there is disagreement over even something as seemingly simple as whether one's long-term endurance is effectively determined by ones FTP or not? Previously, you seemed to agree with the claim that there is no definitive understanding of such issues. If so, isn't any 'professional' quite likely to be wrong on many key issues, and so of limited value?

FFS I got better things to do than answer to you all evening. Good night

Alex_Simmons/RST

BenderRodriguez wrote:

As to mentioning Coggan, I was just giving an example of someone who would disagree with what the 'PBscience team' have argued with reference to endurance. I didn't say that Coggan was wrong, merely that they can't both be right!

If you avoided logical fallacies such as your heavy reliance on strawman arguments, then we might pay more attention.

meanredspider

A couple of friends of mine are doctors at Addenbrookes Hospital (Cambridge teaching hospital) - he's a liver transplant surgeon. They tell me that at medical school, they were told that half of what they are taught will turn out to be wrong and half of that wrong stuff will actually turn out to be harmful. What doctors hope to do is get it right most of the time. Training is a bit like a form of medical treatment. With the greatest respect to the coaches on here, they're a bit like the doctors (just, mostly, not quite as educated). They hope to figure out what is required and plan a course of treatment. Some of the time they'll get it right and I'm sure some of the time they don't. Trying to give training advice anything more than in broad terms is a bit like giving medical advice on the forum.

bobmcstuff

BenderRodriguez wrote:

P.s. I wouldn't deny that many people who buy coaching services improve. However, I have a feeling this probably has a lot more to with the fact that, having spent thousands on coaching services, and having someone to answer to, means that most people will simply work harder than they did previously as they don't want to waste their 'investment', rather than because the plan they are given to follow represents some sort of 'optimum' for that individual, and which can only be identified with 'expert' help.

Is there anything especially wrong with that? If having someone to answer to improves your motivation and results, then what's the problem?

My boss (who I cycle with regularly) has lost stacks of weight this year by getting a personal trainer at a local gym. When you look at what she's getting him to do it's essentially just a combination of the age old "eat less and do more exercise", but having somebody to answer to and telling him what to eat etc has made a massive difference. Yes he could have done this on his own, but there's nothing like having money invested to focus the mind.

FWIW, despite what I've said above and not having used a coach myself I am inclined to think that they could offer something beyond a bit of motivation. Certainly the ones on here seem to make useful contributions. If I had a few pennies to spare I'd consider giving one a go.

Tom Dean

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

Argument by 'air 'quotes'

Do you mean an unlinked quote?

No I mean all this crap:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'prove'

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'experts'

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'credentials'

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'optimum'

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'expert'

BenderRodriguez

Tom Dean wrote:

I mean all this crap:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'prove'

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'experts'

I think you are confusing 'air quotes' (which are made with the fingers) with 'scare quotes', which is what I was using. 'Scare quotes' are intended to highlight the fact that the actual meaning of a word, as used in a given context, might not equate with the generally accepted definition of that word.

To take you example of 'experts'. Most people would see an 'expert' as being someone who, basically, knows what they are talking about and whose knowledge can be trusted to be, for all practical purposes, correct. The information provided on the PBscience site was defended on the basis of the writers credentials, which I would imagine means that they are regarded as being 'experts'. However, what they say is pretty much the opposite of what others with well-respected credentials have said on the same topic. Hence, I would argue that my use of 'scare quotes' (to use standard quotes...) is entirely justified, highlighting as it does that 'expert' advice can be just as misguided as that of the non-expert.

BenderRodriguez

bobmcstuff wrote:

If having someone to answer to improves your motivation and results, then what's the problem

Nothing, if you think that is worth upwards of £1200 a year.

Just don't make the mistake of thinking that, if you don't buy an expensive training plan, then your training is pretty much a waste of time, or think that, just because a plan is provided by an expensive coach, then it will necessarily be superior to any plan that you could work out for yourself. This is especially the case if you take the time to develop your self-knowledge, so that you know just what works for you and are able to adapt every session you do appropriately, irrespective of what some 'plan' might say.

Tom Dean

Air quotes on paper, innit. Thanks for clarifying though.

edit

BenderRodriguez wrote:

'plan'

A plan I don't think is good value for money is no longer a plan but a 'plan'.

another edit: hats off Bender for taking pride in your methods. Committed trolling.

imposter2.0

BenderRodriguez wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

If having someone to answer to improves your motivation and results, then what's the problem

Nothing, if you think that is worth upwards of £1200 a year.

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

But anyway, congratulations on turning an interesting topic on FTP into another one of your favourite off-topic rants. Looks like we've all fallen for it, too...

BenderRodriguez

Imposter wrote:

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

'Bronze' plan. (The cheapest.) £100 a month plus £50 start-up fee. Includes a chat on the phone with your coach once every 3 months...

http://www.rstsport.com/coaching-services/

BenderRodriguez

Tom Dean wrote:

A plan I don't think is good value for money is no longer a plan but a 'plan'.

Point is, can it really be thought of a plan if you don't actually follow it and instead adapt what you do with respect to how you feel each session?

imposter2.0

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Imposter wrote:

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

'Bronze' plan. (The cheapest.) £100 a month plus £50 start-up fee. Includes a chat on the phone with your coach once every 3 months...

http://www.rstsport.com/coaching-services/

Poor effort Trev (and wrong, incidentally), once again. If you have to resort to guesswork, it might be best not to post.

okgo

Imposter wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Imposter wrote:

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

'Bronze' plan. (The cheapest.) £100 a month plus £50 start-up fee. Includes a chat on the phone with your coach once every 3 months...

http://www.rstsport.com/coaching-services/

Poor effort Trev (and wrong, incidentally), once again. If you have to resort to guesswork, it might be best not to post.

Or just don't post period. You ruin every thread on here with your endless guff.

Tom Dean

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

A plan I don't think is good value for money is no longer a plan but a 'plan'.

Point is, can it really be thought of a plan if you don't actually follow it and instead adapt what you do with respect to how you feel each session?

yes

Alex_Simmons/RST

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Imposter wrote:

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

'Bronze' plan. (The cheapest.) £100 a month plus £50 start-up fee. Includes a chat on the phone with your coach once every 3 months...

http://www.rstsport.com/coaching-services/

You misleadingly make it sound like we are never in contact with our clients.

Our Bronze coaching package also includes a weekly coaching portal chat (we use various modern communications channels to work with our clients, not just the telephone), and monthly performance monitoring, assessment and updates with progress, monthly plans and plan alterations, amongst other service and communications (e.g. event calendar and updates, image and videos sharing) but thanks for the advertising help.

Our semi-custom training plans are somewhat cheaper (e.g. approx £20 per month or less) but are not coaching and don't come with a lot of communication or monitoring or many other coaching support features, but you get access to coaches (myself and Ric) via our online portal, and you are able to ask coach the occasional question via that channel.

They work as a value for money way to get a good plan that's at least customised to a degree based on your current fitness, training loads, plan type, starting date, plan duration and training availability.

legendary27

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Imposter wrote:

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

'Bronze' plan. (The cheapest.) £100 a month plus £50 start-up fee. Includes a chat on the phone with your coach once every 3 months...

http://www.rstsport.com/coaching-services/

You misleadingly make it sound like we are never in contact with our clients. Etc . . . .

I appreciate that you perhaps feel the need to defend your integrity in light of some of the crap that Bender posts, but why bother, he's a t!t ?

Another interesting thread wasted by his nonsense . . . . . .

Regards,
Gordon

BenderRodriguez

So, may I now take it that the opinion of the forum is that 1) Despite the initial flurry of support, meanredspider did not, in fact, make a good point and, 2) RST coaching does not actually charge the prices posted on their own website? :?

Oh well, that will teach me for agreeing with someone posting on here.

BenderRodriguez

Imposter wrote:

If you have to resort to guesswork, it might be best not to post.

okgo wrote:

Or just don't post period.

Like other tyrannies, the tyranny of the majority was at first, and is still vulgarly, held in dread, chiefly as operating through the acts of the public authorities. But reflecting persons perceived that when society is itself the tyrant - society collectively over the separate individuals who compose it - its means of tyrannizing are not restricted to the acts which it may do by the hands of its political functionaries. Society can and does execute its own mandates; and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself.

J.S. Mill. On liberty. 1859.

meanredspider

BenderRodriguez wrote:

1) Despite the initial flurry of support, meanredspider did not, in fact, make a good point

I'm sure he made a great point

charlie_potatoes

BenderRodriguez wrote:

So, may I now take it that the opinion of the forum is that 1) Despite the initial flurry of support, meanredspider did not, in fact, make a good point and, 2) RST coaching does not actually charge the prices posted on their own website? :?

I have drawn my own conclusions from this thread. They are different to yours though.

Alex_Simmons/RST

BenderRodriguez wrote:

2) RST coaching does not actually charge the prices posted on their own website? :?

No you cannot make that assertion, as it's incorrect.

ric/rstsport

As promised (on page 1), here's a competition to win a year's FREE coaching: https://www.facebook.com/RSTSport/posts/823706454354881

Good luck!

BenderRodriguez

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

[So, may I now take it that the opinion of the forum is that] 2) RST coaching does not actually charge the prices posted on their own website? :?

No you cannot make that assertion, as it's incorrect.

I didn't. Imposter did....

Imposter wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Imposter wrote:

No idea where you get these figures from - perhaps you make them up, who knows - but it is possible to receive good quality, regular coaching for considerably less than that. I had a very successful (for me) season a few years back - which cost me less than £500 in coaching fees.

'Bronze' plan. (The cheapest.) £100 a month plus £50 start-up fee. Includes a chat on the phone with your coach once every 3 months...

http://www.rstsport.com/coaching-services/

Poor effort Trev (and wrong, incidentally), once again. If you have to resort to guesswork, it might be best not to post.