Building leg and core strength - TRX or weights?

Joeblack

Weight training (squats lunges etc) will help with your general fitness, the idea that you don't get a good cardiovascular workout whilst lifting weights is archaic, it will also help strengthen the tendons and tissues around your joints protecting them from injury, iv always had knee problems and contary to the popular myth squats help with weak knees!

Will this make you 'faster' on the bike I'm not sure, I agree that speed on the bike comes from being on the bike and in fact extra muscle mass might actually slow you down.

When it comes to increasing general power there are lots of weight exercises that can help with this, Olympic lifting is proven to improve power output in the legs (typically done by Olympic athletes hence the name) but these are technically difficult to master and if you're not willing to put the time and effort in to learn the correct technique then I wouldn't bother, not least because you will hurt yourself eventually.

mmacavity

Chris Hoy climbing Buttertubs Pass, while chatting to Will Fotheringham. But which one is struggling?
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/ ... -yorkshire


http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/why-s ... h-training

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/03/mo ... ealth.html
http://anthonycolpo.com/cycling-and-bon ... t-weights/

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/ ... ning-40924

http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/winter- ... ips.html/7

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali- ... u-dauphine
http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/slong ... parations/

http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/exercises/ ... ng-workout

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/02/gym-w ... an-dieman/

imposter2.0

mmacavity wrote:

Chris Hoy climbing Buttertubs Pass, while chatting to Will Fotheringham. But which one is struggling?

The one with less fitness? What do I win?

kinioo

Hi there,

I have been visiting gym on daily basis for my strength/mass program etc. (including squats, dead lifts) - its very good and I love it however, last year I was looking for some trianing to strengthten my legs for my snowboaring - all day riding 7 days a week. So I was after something which will give me endurace, stamina and strength but not necessairly mass gain. I have come across with 'Insanity' trainig. Yes, it looks silly and very commercial but...what an amazing training !!

You can easly google it, so no point to describe it here.

It gave me: strengt, stamina and flexibility and its also very good cardio traning as HIIT - I was able to spend all day riding my snowboard (even all ver technical and difficult slopes) all day, 7 days with no problems.

In 6weeks time I am going snowboarding, so starting my Insanity program now.



Highly recommended. !!

Chris

ric/rstsport

kinioo wrote:

Hi there,

I have been visiting gym on daily basis for my strength/mass program etc. (including squats, dead lifts) - its very good and I love it however, last year I was looking for some trianing to strengthten my legs for my snowboaring - all day riding 7 days a week. So I was after something which will give me endurace, stamina and strength but not necessairly mass gain. I have come across with 'Insanity' trainig. Yes, it looks silly and very commercial but...what an amazing training !!

You can easly google it, so no point to describe it here.

It gave me: strengt, stamina and flexibility and its also very good cardio traning as HIIT - I was able to spend all day riding my snowboard (even all ver technical and difficult slopes) all day, 7 days with no problems.

In 6weeks time I am going snowboarding, so starting my Insanity program now.



Highly recommended. !!

Chris

What has snowboarding got to do with improving cycling performance bit confused...

ric/rstsport

Imposter wrote:

mmacavity wrote:

Chris Hoy climbing Buttertubs Pass, while chatting to Will Fotheringham. But which one is struggling?

The one with less fitness? What do I win?

A session in the gym lifting weights?

imposter2.0

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Imposter wrote:

mmacavity wrote:

Chris Hoy climbing Buttertubs Pass, while chatting to Will Fotheringham. But which one is struggling?

The one with less fitness? What do I win?

A session in the gym lifting weights?

sold!

hasbeen

mmacavity wrote:

Chris Hoy climbing Buttertubs Pass, while chatting to Will Fotheringham. But which one is struggling?/

Perhaps a better comparison would be between Chris Hoy and Wiggins and to see who gets up a climb better? The one who does gym work compared to the one who does more hours cycling......
I've never met a person yet who didn't get better by doing more hours on the bike and as most of us on here have jobs, families, friends then we are limited to the time we can spend on the bike. It makes sense that unless we can maximise the amount of time on the bike then anything else should play a supplemental role at best. A solid 8-10 hrs every week would be way more beneficial than 5hrs with 2 x 1hr gym sessions. If you've got the time to find a gym session then you've got the time to ride your bike.
If you're cracking out 10+hrs a week AND you've got the spare time then gym sessions are good.

kinioo

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

kinioo wrote:

Hi there,

I have been visiting gym on daily basis for my strength/mass program etc. (including squats, dead lifts) - its very good and I love it however, last year I was looking for some trianing to strengthten my legs for my snowboaring - all day riding 7 days a week. So I was after something which will give me endurace, stamina and strength but not necessairly mass gain. I have come across with 'Insanity' trainig. Yes, it looks silly and very commercial but...what an amazing training !!

You can easly google it, so no point to describe it here.

It gave me: strengt, stamina and flexibility and its also very good cardio traning as HIIT - I was able to spend all day riding my snowboard (even all ver technical and difficult slopes) all day, 7 days with no problems.

In 6weeks time I am going snowboarding, so starting my Insanity program now.



Highly recommended. !!

Chris

What has snowboarding got to do with improving cycling performance bit confused...

I dont know about you, but I am using same pair of legs for snowboarding and cycling...therefore I train my legs in very similar way/exercises.

What wheight lifting in the gym / legs training got to do with improving cycling performance ???

I think we are talking about 'Building leg and core strength" - and I think this is what snowboarding, cycling, running, boxing etc. have got in common...

What a simple plank position has got to do with cycling hmmm....nothing, but it has if we are talking about core !!!

ric/rstsport

Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve performance at that exercise modality. While i know little about snowboarding, i can confidently state that the training required for that sport will be significantly different to that of endurance cycling if you're looking at improving performance, hence my question.

The strength requirements for cycling are so low that just about anyone (who is of average mass and who doesn't have a functional disability) could generate the maximal forces (i.e., strength) required to *win* the Tour de France. On the other hand, i sincerely doubt that many people could generate the maximal forces required in say boxing, and that comparing my maximal force with a weight matched boxer would be significantly less.

There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance. That doesn't mean i don't think people shouldn't do them (even i do some of those exercise), but they could be being done for reasons other than cycling performance.

Accordingly, my point remains.

Thanks
Ric

kinioo

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve performance at that exercise modality. While i know little about snowboarding, i can confidently state that the training required for that sport will be significantly different to that of endurance cycling if you're looking at improving performance, hence my question.

The strength requirements for cycling are so low that just about anyone (who is of average mass and who doesn't have a functional disability) could generate the maximal forces (i.e., strength) required to *win* the Tour de France. On the other hand, i sincerely doubt that many people could generate the maximal forces required in say boxing, and that comparing my maximal force with a weight matched boxer would be significantly less.

There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance. That doesn't mean i don't think people shouldn't do them (even i do some of those exercise), but they could be being done for reasons other than cycling performance.

Accordingly, my point remains.

Thanks
Ric

Yep, you're correct: "Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve [...]" - if you are proffesisonal. Additionally you will have different, diet, day/week/month training plan etc. and obviously you will stick to your main equipment (which in this case is a bike). However for 'normal' people (who usually dont have much time, access to professional nutrition adviser, personal trainer etc.) 'standard' leg training mixed with cardio and core training will do for most of the activities/sports at 'amatour' level.

You are (probably) again correct saying: "There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance", however the title says: "Building leg and core strength" and this is where planks/core training is very effective (as well as mentioned 'Insanity training' which is mainly core/legs).

Strength / mass training program is completelly different to endurance/stamin training, even if some of the exercises are the same (see 100m sprinter body and a marathon runner...)

You are talking about 'endurance' I am talkin about leg strength and general core improvement.

And, most important, I didnt say do snowboarding, it will be good for your cycling (it probably will), but what I mean is the training I mentioned will be good for (in my case Snowboarding) many activities.

Chris

imposter2.0

kinioo wrote:

You are talking about 'endurance' I am talkin about leg strength and general core improvement.

I suspect Ric was talking about endurance 'cycling' - this is, after all, a cycling forum, not a body-building forum. There's no question that leg weights will make your legs stronger. The issue is whether 'stronger' legs are actually required for endurance cycling - to which the answer is almost certainly 'no'...

ric/rstsport

kinioo wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve performance at that exercise modality. While i know little about snowboarding, i can confidently state that the training required for that sport will be significantly different to that of endurance cycling if you're looking at improving performance, hence my question.

The strength requirements for cycling are so low that just about anyone (who is of average mass and who doesn't have a functional disability) could generate the maximal forces (i.e., strength) required to *win* the Tour de France. On the other hand, i sincerely doubt that many people could generate the maximal forces required in say boxing, and that comparing my maximal force with a weight matched boxer would be significantly less.

There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance. That doesn't mean i don't think people shouldn't do them (even i do some of those exercise), but they could be being done for reasons other than cycling performance.

Accordingly, my point remains.

Thanks
Ric

Yep, you're correct: "Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve [...]" - if you are proffesisonal. Additionally you will have different, diet, day/week/month training plan etc. and obviously you will stick to your main equipment (which in this case is a bike). However for 'normal' people (who usually dont have much time, access to professional nutrition adviser, personal trainer etc.) 'standard' leg training mixed with cardio and core training will do for most of the activities/sports at 'amatour' level.

You are (probably) again correct saying: "There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance", however the title says: "Building leg and core strength" and this is where planks/core training is very effective (as well as mentioned 'Insanity training' which is mainly core/legs).

Strength / mass training program is completelly different to endurance/stamin training, even if some of the exercises are the same (see 100m sprinter body and a marathon runner...)

You are talking about 'endurance' I am talkin about leg strength and general core improvement.

And, most important, I didnt say do snowboarding, it will be good for your cycling (it probably will), but what I mean is the training I mentioned will be good for (in my case Snowboarding) many activities.

Chris

i was just confused how it fits into a cycling forum? i don't disagree with your points about snowboarding.

kinioo

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

kinioo wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve performance at that exercise modality. While i know little about snowboarding, i can confidently state that the training required for that sport will be significantly different to that of endurance cycling if you're looking at improving performance, hence my question.

The strength requirements for cycling are so low that just about anyone (who is of average mass and who doesn't have a functional disability) could generate the maximal forces (i.e., strength) required to *win* the Tour de France. On the other hand, i sincerely doubt that many people could generate the maximal forces required in say boxing, and that comparing my maximal force with a weight matched boxer would be significantly less.

There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance. That doesn't mean i don't think people shouldn't do them (even i do some of those exercise), but they could be being done for reasons other than cycling performance.

Accordingly, my point remains.

Thanks
Ric

Yep, you're correct: "Even though you use the same legs (!) for cycling or snowboarding, or anything else that requires the use of your legs there are differences in the way that they need to be trained to improve [...]" - if you are proffesisonal. Additionally you will have different, diet, day/week/month training plan etc. and obviously you will stick to your main equipment (which in this case is a bike). However for 'normal' people (who usually dont have much time, access to professional nutrition adviser, personal trainer etc.) 'standard' leg training mixed with cardio and core training will do for most of the activities/sports at 'amatour' level.

You are (probably) again correct saying: "There is no evidence that doing planks/core/etc have any benefit on endurance cycling performance", however the title says: "Building leg and core strength" and this is where planks/core training is very effective (as well as mentioned 'Insanity training' which is mainly core/legs).

Strength / mass training program is completelly different to endurance/stamin training, even if some of the exercises are the same (see 100m sprinter body and a marathon runner...)

You are talking about 'endurance' I am talkin about leg strength and general core improvement.

And, most important, I didnt say do snowboarding, it will be good for your cycling (it probably will), but what I mean is the training I mentioned will be good for (in my case Snowboarding) many activities.

Chris

i was just confused how it fits into a cycling forum? i don't disagree with your points about snowboarding.

Fair play. I dont want to argue here.

My comment was about 'Insanity' training and I mean it can be applied to build leg and core strength.

Snowboarding was just an example for waht I used it for as a preparation etc. if I had said I used it as a preparation for my biking trip everything would have been OK...

Anyway - I do recommend it for any sport activities base around core/leg etc.

mrwibble

Olympic Barbell exercises at the gym, lots of squats, it's help me a hell of a lot to increase my leg strength

ric/rstsport

the whole crux of the discussion is whether weights/strength/insanity/whatever will have a positive benefit on (endurance) cycling performance. The evidence is equivocal (some research suggests yes, but isn't always done well, and other research suggests no). I'm in the camp that it's unlikely to be beneficial to endurance cycling performance. there is a strong theoretical basis for strength training to NOT have a positive effect.

diy

There is one argument for weights which i'd be interested in opinions on. If someone is right at the start, you could get some accelerated gains by doing weights early on purely to increase the growth hormone being produced.

Now there is a whole other argument as to why you probably don't want lots of growth hormone long term, but early on I would expect it to get you some results quicker than just cycling. There is also a second argument: As you get older having held good aerobic performance in your prime you will probably have to increase the focus on muscle development to maintain the muscles that will otherwise waste "naturally".

top_bhoy

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

the whole crux of the discussion is whether weights/strength/insanity/whatever will have a positive benefit on (endurance) cycling performance. The evidence is equivocal (some research suggests yes, but isn't always done well, and other research suggests no). I'm in the camp that it's unlikely to be beneficial to endurance cycling performance. there is a strong theoretical basis for strength training to NOT have a positive effect.

Let me put the question slightly differently. Does weight/strength training help the cyclist minimise injury?

imposter2.0

When did this become about 'injury prevention'..??

mmacavity

http://www.plan2peak.com/files/33_artic ... 20Rant.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19855311

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24584047

http://www.crpusa.com/effects-strength- ... rformance/

http://www.hokksund-rehab.no/filarkiv/F ... YCLING.pdf

http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/why-s ... h-training

http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMu ... me_Ti.aspx

imposter2.0

The return of 'Irrelevant link man'..!!