Trail grades

Cqc

Most people who do this just overestimate their skill often due to inconsistent trail gradings as said above. there are very few riders out there good enough to go charging down properly difficult tracks first time...

rockmonkeysc

Most people with confidence to hit stuff blind have been riding hard for years and know what they can get away with.
My most serious injuries (multiple fractures) have been while cruising, not focused on pushing hard.

mcnultycop

Clayton Vale near the Manchester Velodrome had a skills loop with gradings for each of the features (1-3 circles for the size of the drop or the rockiness of the rocks). These gradings then repeated next to each feature.

I wrote this in past tense as I imagine all the signs have been stolen now though.

Angus Young

BloggingFit wrote:

Out on the trails feature warning signs correlating to the online narrative would help. Some trails do have these already.

mcnultycop wrote:

These gradings then repeated next to each feature.

Not sure I'd like to see the trails plastered with signs. That would disfigure the landscape and, given fair warning at the start, I like to be left to my own devices from then on.

BloggingFit

Angus Young wrote:

BloggingFit wrote:

Out on the trails feature warning signs correlating to the online narrative would help. Some trails do have these already.

mcnultycop wrote:

These gradings then repeated next to each feature.

Not sure I'd like to see the trails plastered with signs. That would disfigure the landscape and, given fair warning at the start, I like to be left to my own devices from then on.

Absolutely although I'm going along the lines of something pretty subtle and small with a single word like drop or jump and say a directional arrow or symbol.

njee20

Sure some have markings on the little way marker posts, although I forget where, Haldon perhaps? Down arrow for 'caution', three down arrows for 'extreme caution' - same logic employed in races.

Agree that having loads of signs isn't the answer though.

paul.skibum

Whistler Bike Park has two trail types - Flow and Tech with green to Double Black in each which I think works well although the Tech Green to me is a harder trail than a flow blue although I guess the flow blue is steeper and probably inherently higher speed for the beginner rider. I like the additional subdivision though at the start of the trail even if you pass the sign at speed you can see the tech of flow symbol and have an additional idea what you are heading into.

The downside of the bike park vs the valley trails is that a single black with little maintenance outside the park can rapidly ramp up in difficulty with a bit of erosion - plus a lot of the trails outside the park are just that much more technical and non are of the flow type so people who can ride a black flow trail on the mountain can come in for a shock out in the valley. Or even if they try a tech trail on the mountain the same grade as the flow they were riding.

rockmonkeysc

njee20 wrote:

Sure some have markings on the little way marker posts, although I forget where, Haldon perhaps? Down arrow for 'caution', three down arrows for 'extreme caution' - same logic employed in races.

Agree that having loads of signs isn't the answer though.

Thats what a lot of DH tracks. One to three down arrows on a sign just before big features and a red warning sign with GAP in big letters for gap jumps.

buddy_club

Another example of flwas in the grading is at Brenin (except the blue which is brilliant) i.e. The Beast (Black grade) is only graded black because its 40km - not because its technically difficult but because its so long (and 40% of it is fireroad) it shares alot of the singletrack with the red fox and dragons back trails - compared to Tarw Du which is genuinely technically challenging, The Beast is only challenging to your fitness (apart from the last few miles which are deserving of black). What the blue does well IMO is that its properly fast for experienced riders and seriously good fun, but where the features are towards the harder end of the blue grading system there are warning signs, so although some features would be red elsewhere, the trail still remains a blue grade. Its something i think should be introduced elsewhere, signs warning people that an upcoming obstacle is harder than the rest so less experienced riders can be aware of it.

supersonic

Maybe should add length into it ie Long and Black.

Lewis A

supersonic wrote:

Maybe should add length into it ie Long and Black.

I see what you're doing there...

supersonic

Better than short and green.

rockmonkeysc

supersonic wrote:

Better than short and green.

Just how the wife likes it. At least that's what she tells me.

JayKay3000

I hate those signs warning you that an obstacle is top of the grade. What are you supposed to do if you have chosen a hard track, your flat out going down. You see this sign that looks like death and it puts the frighteners on you which means your not going to be set up for the obstacle that you are now crashing on that you would have terrified you, yet you would have cleared. I wish they would have a smiley face next to them because they are super fun to do. "Oh wait, I'd better stop here in the way of other trail users and possibly cause a crash"

I was at nant last summer (not been up this yr) and saw a family on the red route. The mum had a hard tail and was bricking it. "I did not realise this track was going to be this hard" (if any non-novice has ridden nant-yr-arian you know its a cake walk). The dad was further on and when I came to the kids they were at the end and looked bored as anything waiting for their folks. I don't know if the mum made it down as there is a couple of small drops, but I really felt sorry for her as I blasted past.

Unfortunately no amount of signs are going to inform everyone.

Maybe even a small trail map showing what the obstacles are so you can get a feel of the trail and know what's in store.

Brenins mbr is annoying like that, yet some of the 'top of the grade' bits are easier because you have the momentum (unless you see that sign and freak yourself out) than some of their harder stuff that you need basic bike handling skills or are slow and technical.

To be honest I think videos of other people riding stuff well are the best thing you can watch before attempting a trail rather than reading the scary blurb. Watch good and novice riders ride the trails so you can work out how to ride them. Emulate the good ones and follow their lines.

I've been riding more moto and natural woodland tracks because I love discovering the trail, working out if I can do it then usually having a lot of fun riding it. When I come to grade it in my mind it becomes hard especially as my hard might be your easy.

welshkev

Cqc wrote:

Most people who do this just overestimate their skill often due to inconsistent trail gradings as said above. there are very few riders out there good enough to go charging down properly difficult tracks first time...

i did "the black" at antur stiniog for the first time blind. you had to keep up quite decent amount of speed or you'd hook up in the rocks. apart from huge jumps and drops, there's not a lot that i mind hitting these days. if i was going slow on that trail i reckon i would have smashed myself up quite nicely. :?

*i mean i wasn't going fast, as in race pace, but i wasn't hanging around either

rockmonkeysc

I rode Blade at Afan today. It's graded as red which I think is about right but they have signs warning of features which are difficult for the grade. It's a nice ide but if you're concentrating on riding you aren't looking at signs. Some of the features look big as you approach them but are actually quite small.
You might have a bit of trouble if something like Cannock or Llandegla reds are your limit. I would say it's tougher than Llandegla black.
Good fun bit of trail but not convinced the signs work.

Stevo_666

What they are doing at BPW is quite a good idea IMO.

They are putting a tricky looking (from the point of view of people who shouldn't be doing the run) and visible feature right at the start of the black runs to make people realise they're not on for a stroll in the park. The Dragon run now has a ~3 ft drop off as soon as you start and Dai hard has a small but very square edged double less than 20 yards in. Similar for the top red but easier. Makes people think.

rockmonkeysc

I completely agree with that. They're far from the hardest features on each trail but enough to put a lot of people off. I have heard people complaining about the features being fenced in with no chicken line but it's a black trail, those features act as a filter for those who could get hurt or hold up competent riders wanting to enjoy features where speed is essential.

njee20

Yep, I agree with 'qualifying' features, makes a lot of sense!

Ferrals

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I rode Blade at Afan today. It's graded as red which I think is about right but they have signs warning of features which are difficult for the grade. It's a nice ide but if you're concentrating on riding you aren't looking at signs. Some of the features look big as you approach them but are actually quite small.
You might have a bit of trouble if something like Cannock or Llandegla reds are your limit. I would say it's tougher than Llandegla black.
Good fun bit of trail but not convinced the signs work.

The only bit the sketched me on blade was that rocky turn in the woods on the first decent - primarily because someone I met told me how sketchy it was! Mostly I thought it was a really fun and varied trail. I was pleased of my knee pads on the last decent though!

Qualifying features does seem like a good idea

Maro

I really like blade, that corkscrew type section near the top and then the final decent are so much fun.

I rode the pearce cycles red trail at hopton not so long ago, I was zipping down one bit and then it all got a bit steep and "droppy" before I spotted a road gap just ahead and stopped my XC machine, soon realised I was now on one of the DH trails and that post I had seen in the corner of my eye had a red arrow on it telling me to go a different way.

The trail is quite well signed but that sign could have been bigger for those with tunnel vision and skipping down it.

diplodicus

Grading is always going to be difficult.

For a few years we were going to Les Deux Alpes and I got quite confident on all the reds there, including the Venosc run if anyone know it

Anyway one year on then way home we stopped for a night at Avoriaz and I rode some of the trails down to Chatel area. Flew down a blue into a world of pain :oops: The trails were so much more difficult for the same grading.