Training Help

sne13

Hi,
I'm after some help. Whether I have been riding for 70km or 10km, as soon as I get to a rise of any kind, I always fall of the back of the group. What can I do to stop this from happening? I'm quite comfortable riding at high speeds for long distances (avg 38km/h over 90km) on the flat but those rises are killing me. I'm thinking more hill work but I'm unsure. If its hill work I need, what can be done when we don't have any hills in the area.

Thanks,

Shayne

diy

Height/weight are you big? Often its down to the mass you are pushing up hill vs your mates, particularly if they are skinny streaks of you know what. Do you find you are out of puff or out of power?

If you are not on the big side, then after checking bike fit and making sure you have max power capability in your set up, I'd look at things like squats etc. Even just under body weight to get some more grunt in your legs. Works well as pre-fatiguing routine. Interval training is also good.. A few threads on that here.

If you are out of puff and have a turbo or gym bike go to youtube and look up HIIT Cycle workout or Tabata Cycle workout. Both are good at upping you power and aerobic capacity.

You can also build some High intensity work in to your training rides. 1 min sprint 30 s rest etc.

imposter2.0

diy wrote:

If you are not on the big side, then after checking bike fit and making sure you have max power capability in your set up, I'd look at things like squats etc. Even just under body weight to get some more grunt in your legs.

There you go again. How will squats improve his climbing ability?

ric/rstsport

+1

likely to make it worse!

kajjal

They may just be naturally better at climbing and even with training you won't match them but try looking at the below. Also not having hills to train on will not help but you could try interval training to get round it a bit. In the end only going up hills trains you for hill climbing.

Likely causes apart from that are :-

Bike set up
Weight
Gear selection
Technique.
Diet quality
Sleep quality
Work / life style factors such as having a young family or a demanding job.

markwb79

sne13 wrote:

Hi,
I'm after some help. Whether I have been riding for 70km or 10km, as soon as I get to a rise of any kind, I always fall of the back of the group. What can I do to stop this from happening? I'm quite comfortable riding at high speeds for long distances (avg 38km/h over 90km) on the flat but those rises are killing me. I'm thinking more hill work but I'm unsure. If its hill work I need, what can be done when we don't have any hills in the area.

Thanks,

Shayne

No offence, but I can't tell if you are just being a troll of not.

Quite comfortable at 38kmph over 90km and only now you start to wonder about hills?

If you can do those speeds I would suggest you are already quite experienced.

If this is real….
You obviously have the power. I would say its just down to weight.
I would even say its nothing to do with bike fit or sleep or diet.
Solely down to power to weight
And I assume you don't live in Holland or East Anglia, so it isn't going to be 200m 'climbs'. Its probably going to be 2km at 6% climbs.
Watts per kilo is your answer.

sne13

Thanks Everyone.
I have a slight frame,weigh 75kg and 32yrs old. I have been cycling for the fun of it for years and have been getting better over those years. Falling off the back of the group had never really concerned me until now as I have started taking it a little more seriously with the odd race or two. I'm no professional, I'm barely an ametaur but just like to be the best I can be. Knowledge is key.
The climbs are only ever 300-400m and by the top my legs are burning and the group is well in front. Once I get to the top, it only takes a couple hundred metres and I'm good to go again

madasahattersley

If you can actually ride for 90km comfortably at 38kmph and you weigh 75kg with a slight frame then you shouldn't be getting dropped on the hills.

What I suspect however is that you can just manage to uncomfortably stay with the local racers chaingang for 90km and happen to average about 38kmph, in which case you are bound to get dropped on the hills as that's where the difference in rider abilities becomes most prominent.

bahzob

madasahattersley wrote:

If you can actually ride for 90km comfortably at 38kmph and you weigh 75kg with a slight frame then you shouldn't be getting dropped on the hills.

What I suspect however is that you can just manage to uncomfortably stay with the local racers chaingang for 90km and happen to average about 38kmph, in which case you are bound to get dropped on the hills as that's where the difference in rider abilities becomes most prominent.

+1

As a general rule riding in a group is one of the worst ways to train. Most of your time is spent at too low effort sheltering in the group while others do the work. So you may well spend 2-3 hours on a bike and only 10-15 minutes actually in a useful training zone.

If you want to measure your ability and improve do the route or a part of it solo, then see what speed you average. Also you can take the opportunity to stop at the top of the hills you get dropped on, descend and do some repeats on them. The best way to get better at climbing the sort of small hills in the UK is climbing hills. Again problem with group rides is that hills are few and recovery between them is long which makes things too easy.

Take a note of time to climb and try to set/beat some PBs. Also use the repeats to try different forms of climbing, from staying in the big ring and using brute force to get to the top to staying in the smallest possible gear and spinning. Somewhere between these extremes will be the right gear for you.

None of this is to say don't go out on group rides. They are fun, but just that, fun, not useful training.

ric/rstsport

I'm not sure this is true. It is possible to do many group rides that are hard in some way. One's that stretch you and provide a training effect. It just requires you to find such a group.

bahzob

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

I'm not sure this is true. It is possible to do many group rides that are hard in some way. One's that stretch you and provide a training effect. It just requires you to find such a group.

Most things are possible but some are far harder than others. Setting up a group so that it is hard/useful for everyone requires considerable pre-planning, discipline and organisation and even then some riders will benefit more than others.

Group rides are fun, but mainly just that: fun.

ric/rstsport

while what you say is true, it's not impossible to set up quality group rides that meet a variety of training (and fun) objectives for a range of people.

Fitter riders could do more on the front, while less powerful could do more at the back. If there is sufficient disparity between the two sets of riders there can be a training effect for both, and additionally when the less powerful go to the front to ride hard they can also get a good workout.

Even with a relatively similar fitness group a quality workout can still be achieved. For e.g., in a road race it's possible for a single category (e.g. 2nd) to make it hard for others in that group, as well as themselves.

it just requires effective communication before the ride starts to get everyone to ride as required.

dennisn

Imposter wrote:

diy wrote:

If you are not on the big side, then after checking bike fit and making sure you have max power capability in your set up, I'd look at things like squats etc. Even just under body weight to get some more grunt in your legs.

There you go again. How will squats improve his climbing ability?

Really not worth the argument, although it can be fun. I just don't think you can make a blanket statement that some form of exercise(other than cycling) will or won't help a specific persons cycling ability. We are not all alike in our responses to physical exercises.

DeVlaeminck

Re. group rides I think the pros generally outweigh the cons when it comes to making them at least part of your training. To say they are just for fun and imply the real training takes place elsewhere doesn't fit with the fact that many accomplished riders make them a large part of their weekly hours. At best you might argue they are not absolutely optimal training - but that implies everyone could motivate themselves to replicate the effort they put in in a group (training or road race) on a solo ride and for the majority that isn't true.