105 rear mech jockey wheel noisey... new chain fitted..

fudgey
fudgey Posts: 854
edited October 2014 in Workshop
While out on a ride yesterday my mate made a comment about how noisy my drivedrain is.
Its not 'that' noisy but noticably louder than his ultegra equipped rig.
Had a little look/play earlier and the noise seems to be the chain on the jockey wheels of the 105 rear mech.
Bike has coverd approx 1200 miles from new so i cant imagine its worn out.

It doesnt really bother me that much so i might just leave it, just wondering if this is the norm for a 105 rear mech?
My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
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Comments

  • rob21
    rob21 Posts: 284
    have you lubed the chain and jockey wheels recently?
    i have a couple off bike's with 105 mech chain e.t.c and dont have noise issues i just clean and lube regulary..
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    What have you done to the drivetrain?

    Pics? Side on and from the top.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    Check hanger alignment maybe?

    I bought the tool for it as LBS didn't have one :shock: & its being useful for me on several bikes.
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    It's a bit unlikely that it's the jockey wheels themselves - more likely to be a minor misalignment or the chain where it has to bend quite sharply.

    The wheels themselves don't really matter- but it's easy to strip them and make sure the internals are good - not a lot to them, just a bushing really.

    Check the b-screw tension of the rear derailleur too - if it's too close this can make a noise. That and just regular drivetrain lubing and cleaning should have it silent.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    Thanks for the replys chaps. Ill take some pics when i get home. Went out for 27 miles earlier and it seems
    my fiddling has only made it worse, and the gears not indexed as well. Woops

    I did go out in heavy rain a couple of weekends ago, and the bike got filthy yesterday so i washed the bike.. And have not relubed the chain.

    I think tomorrow i will order some chain cleaner and decent oil. The stuff i have i dont like as it flings off no matter how much i wipe the chain. Not good with a white frame and wheels.

    So now that you have mentioned it, it could just be down to poor maintenance and not having lubed the chain for a while. It is still oily tho as my hands were black this morning.
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    just had a little look again and noticed the actual central roller parts of the chain move a bit, if I tap them then they make a slight noise so im now thinking its the chain. again I don't think its particularly worn as its only just covered 1200 miles.

    as if I extend the mech forwards and backwards by hand it makes a slight noise as the chain rolls over the jockeys, so its deffo chain on jockey noise.

    I do have a new shimano 10-speed chain, but ill clean and re-oil it first. going to buy some morgan blue race oil road and chain cleaner tomorrow.

    ok pics, from the rear. doesn't look like the mech in bent in at all really. (apologies about the crappy Iphone pics)

    IMG_1990_zps382eb753.jpg

    from above

    IMG_1989_zps92a00136.jpg

    from the side

    IMG_1993_zpsda1a901e.jpg

    the chain

    IMG_1991_zps7e9b9863.jpg

    and the lube I have been using

    IMG_1992_zps58d067ff.jpg
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • When did you last check for chain wear? If it's stretched it will be noisy. If you've had the same chain for 1200 miles it could well be due for a change. Finish Line Wet is perfectly fine so it won't be the lube.
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    err, I havnt.

    is there a definitive guide for measuring? ie it should be x long between links? I have a vernier so can get a pretty accurate measurement.

    I wouldn't have thought it would have worn out that fast however. only had the bike 5 months.

    cheers for the tip tho... off to google lol
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    Looks like it is not adjusted correctly. Maybe add a 1/4 turn of tension.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • They do wear out quicker if you never clean or lube them :D
    1200 miles is definitely 'in the ballpark' for chain wear
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    nick, I was messing about earlier and while on a ride with the adjusters so you could be right.
    I have downloaded a shimano pdf about how to set up the front and rear mechs correctly so will give that a go tomorrow.

    Oscar I have lubed it a couple of times, but never taken it off to clean it properly.

    I have a spare chain, so will fit that and be done with it tomorrow also.
    one more thing, does a brand spanker require oiling? its in a sealed packet and looks like there is oil residue on the inside of the packet.

    I shall report back with my results. cheers chaps
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    See the Parktools link in my sig. Follow it and bookmark it.

    Good how tos.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    top stuff, thanks nick :D
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • No there's no need to lube a new chain. I find citrus degreaser and old toothbrush best for cleaning a chain - no need to take it off. Chain wear can be a lottery - I've had them last with barely any wear for 2500 miles and others wear out in 700.
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • What is the very best indication that your chain needs replacing? The chain on my bike which I've had from new nearly 12 months ago has done over 3000 miles, so I'm guessing that's well overdue for a change!
    Ribble Ultralite Racing 7005, Campagnolo Veloce groupset, Campagnolo Khamsin G3 wheel set
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    What is the very best indication that your chain needs replacing? The chain on my bike which I've had from new nearly 12 months ago has done over 3000 miles, so I'm guessing that's well overdue for a change!
    measure it.

    read the info on Parktools.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    What is the very best indication that your chain needs replacing? The chain on my bike which I've had from new nearly 12 months ago has done over 3000 miles, so I'm guessing that's well overdue for a change!

    You might end up needing both a new cassete & chainrings too now if you chain is very worn.
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,062
    might just be your pictures but that rear mech doesnt look straight to me, has the bike fallen over on the drive side? even a little bit bent would make a hell of a noise even if shift is still fine.

    but yes measure your chain with a steel ruler in several places
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    I think the pics are a bit deceiving as i had the phone against the wheel so its not a true square-on shot.

    I didnt get time to fettle tonight but will have time tomorrow.

    When people say measure the chain, from what i have rwad it says over 12 links etc, but doesnt say what the measurement should be?

    One i done earlier was 140mm over 12 links centre to centre of the rivets

    As for the bike falling over - not since i have had it but it has been in the car a couple of times, one time with a mates bike on top but i was careful to not put the frame on top of my mech but you never know. (Also had sheets over mine to avoid scratches etc)

    Ill sit the bike in the turbo tomorrow and check that the mech is parallel and stick the new chain on.
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,844
    itboffin wrote:
    might just be your pictures but that rear mech doesnt look straight to me, has the bike fallen over on the drive side? even a little bit bent would make a hell of a noise even if shift is still fine.

    but yes measure your chain with a steel ruler in several places

    ..and remove the jockey wheels to check for wear against the jockey wheel cage. If it is bent, the chain could be rubbing on the cage and will make a racket. As it is anodised black, the scrape marks will be silver and easy to spot.
    It is also a good idea to lubricate the jockey wheels with a little grease when reassembling. I say 'little' grease as too much is a dirt magnet.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    It's easiest to work in inches. 12 links should be about 12". When you get to 0.5% stretch you want to change the chain - that's about 1/16" longer. If it gets to 1/8" then the chain will have damaged the cassette and you'll need to change that too. Much more and you're looking at chainrings too.

    By changing the chain early you can get 3 or so chains to a cassette.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,062
    k-dog wrote:
    It's easiest to work in inches. 12 links should be about 12". When you get to 0.5% stretch you want to change the chain - that's about 1/16" longer. If it gets to 1/8" then the chain will have damaged the cassette and you'll need to change that too. Much more and you're looking at chainrings too.

    By changing the chain early you can get 3 or so chains to a cassette.

    aaahhhh how refreshing proper measurements none of this Euro rubbish :lol:
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    I can't work in all the fractions though - it's not automatic, I have to think if 3/32 is bigger or less than 1/8.

    I like inches for big measurements. What irritates me though is decimal inches. It's usually computer screen sizes -15.6" etc. Decimal inches just doesn't make sense.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    12 links should measure 12" or 304.8mm.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
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  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    ah thanks Ben, i measured 12 rivets...

    will have another look later but i think for piece of mind ill stick the new chain on for now.

    thanks everyone, ill post my findings later :D
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    ok, a more dead on pic before I replaced the chain. rear mech doesn't look bent to me.

    IMG_1995_zps840f7a07.jpg

    took the rear mech off and cleaned it/stripped it down. there is a tiny bit of wear/contact to the top edge of the cage.

    IMG_1997_zps287a8a19.jpg

    I hammered a nail into the doorframe and hung the old and new chains up. new is on the left after having been made to size. you can see how much longer the original KMC chain is!

    IMG_1999_zps22ee69a8.jpg

    so, new chain fitted and I spent AGES indexing the gears as per the shimano document DM-GN0001-08-ENG.
    so far have only had a little go on the turbo and it seemed ok, but its always different on the road and I will try to ride to work tomorrow to test it!

    as for the noise, its not silent but is noticeably quieter.

    so thanks chaps, worn chain it was!!
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • jermas
    jermas Posts: 484
    The lower jockey is often directional (if so it has a direction arrow on it). If it's fitted the wrong way round (unlikely from new) this can make the chain very noisy.
    Also keep your old chain and reuse it at a later date. It only looks half worn at most.
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    I did check the jockey arrows before disassembly and it was ok.
    i think the main issue with the chain was that it was quite dry!

    so poor maintenance on my part....

    so looks like i need to clean and lube more often! the morgan blue stuff i ordered should be here today so ill clean up the old chain then. and keep it.
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,844
    Just out of curiosity Fudgey - what are the hubs and rims?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    The hubs just say colnago on them, and the rims day Artemis colnago on them

    Ill have a closer look when i get home but i have not noticed any other branding on them.

    The bike is a 2014 colnago ac-r with 105 groupset from wiggle
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...