First FTP test

janesy

So I have a P2M power meter and have just been riding to see what 200/400 and 1000 watts feels like for the past few days.

I want to do an FTP test, I know I have to warm up then do 20mins at full felt and work my zones out from that.
However, my only concern is that it has to be on the turbo trainer. Being that the Trek Madone is carbon, will this be OK? I do have rollers but would rather be 'static' to concentrate on power.

Turbo or rollers is the question?

phil485

Turbo, or outside if you can work out a suitably quiet route.

janesy

I've never put the Madone on the Turbo, So ok putting a carbon bike on then? I'm not exactly going to be wrenching 1000 watts.

BeaconRuth

There's no risk to your carbon bike on the turbo, any more than there is riding on the road.

Ruth

janesy

cool thanks. will set it up and do it tonight then. oh the fun!

Alex_Simmons/RST

janesy wrote:

cool thanks. will set it up and do it tonight then. oh the fun!

As with any bike on a trainer, just make sure you use a rear skewer suitable for the trainer's clamps, and that the clamps only hold the skewer and do not touch the frame.

Tom Dean

Be aware you may find significant differences between what you can do on the road, rollers and turbo. Test on whichever you are going to do the bulk of your focussed training.

Grill

janesy wrote:

I've never put the Madone on the Turbo, So ok putting a carbon bike on then? I'm not exactly going to be wrenching 1000 watts.

My Plasma is worth more than my house and it happily sits on the turbo. There are no issues.

ozzzyosborn206

You should be ok as you won't be out the saddle which causes the bike to twist which is why people don't tend to use carbon on the turbo. It does cause more forces than riding on the road because the rear axle is fixed so the forces put through the cranks pushing sideways have to be lost in the movement of the frame rather than your bike simply moving slightly. I have seen a few bikes break from being used on the turbo, just because some people have got away with it doesn't mean its not an issue. Also as others have said you ftp will probably be fairly different on the road compared to what you get from the turbo

Grill

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

You should be ok as you won't be out the saddle which causes the bike to twist which is why people don't tend to use carbon on the turbo. It does cause more forces than riding on the road because the rear axle is fixed so the forces put through the cranks pushing sideways have to be lost in the movement of the frame rather than your bike simply moving slightly. I have seen a few bikes break from being used on the turbo, just because some people have got away with it doesn't mean its not an issue. Also as others have said you ftp will probably be fairly different on the road compared to what you get from the turbo

And yet all the pro teams do it. How much power are they putting out compared to us mere mortals. Classic scaremongering.

Alex_Simmons/RST

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

You should be ok as you won't be out the saddle which causes the bike to twist which is why people don't tend to use carbon on the turbo. It does cause more forces than riding on the road because the rear axle is fixed so the forces put through the cranks pushing sideways have to be lost in the movement of the frame rather than your bike simply moving slightly. I have seen a few bikes break from being used on the turbo, just because some people have got away with it doesn't mean its not an issue. Also as others have said you ftp will probably be fairly different on the road compared to what you get from the turbo

If it's so weak as to break on a turbo, it's unsuitable for use on the road.

janesy

Cheers all. Bike was fine - Obviously!
FTP of 302watts - avg'd 318. Pretty hard work, I'm really looking forward to doing another.... (sarcasm)

And last night I did a few intervals and pushed out 580 for a minute. Bike didn't snap.

markwb79

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

You should be ok as you won't be out the saddle which causes the bike to twist which is why people don't tend to use carbon on the turbo. It does cause more forces than riding on the road because the rear axle is fixed so the forces put through the cranks pushing sideways have to be lost in the movement of the frame rather than your bike simply moving slightly. I have seen a few bikes break from being used on the turbo, just because some people have got away with it doesn't mean its not an issue. Also as others have said you ftp will probably be fairly different on the road compared to what you get from the turbo

Wow - Just to clear up my curiosity. How many is 'a few' when you are talking about the bikes you have seen break because they are used on a turbo?

iPete

!stupid question!

When doing your test do you just record the 20 minutes and upload to say Strava or are you using other software that looks at an entire workout and pulls out these peaks and groups for you?

okgo

To keep things simple just upgrade to strava premium, there is a powercurve function built into it, its pretty user freindly, also just to avoid all doubt when you're starting said effort hit the lap button, and then when you upload you can look at just that lap rather than all the other bits and bobs.

bigmat

okgo wrote:

To keep things simple just upgrade to strava premium, there is a powercurve function built into it, its pretty user freindly, also just to avoid all doubt when you're starting said effort hit the lap button, and then when you upload you can look at just that lap rather than all the other bits and bobs.

The Strava premium will also calculate your FTP for you, both recent and over the past year. Makes for depressing reading at the moment as I appear to be around 40W down on where I was in spring.

okgo

Yeh I don't think that is any good though as a feature.

bigmat

Good!

Grill

40W??? Is that based on a PM or Strava's algorithm?

okgo

Powermeter. I think at one point it got withing 10w of what I had my FTP set at in WKO, but then when that particular ride slipped out of the last 6 week bit it dropped it by 20w lol.

There is an argument of course that in road racing its quite rare that you'll ever ride at ftp for an hour anyway,and the way it measured normalized power means it doesn't really calculate it from that if the average is low but the np is high, in a crit for example.

wavefront

If you have a PM you could do a lot worse than use Golden Cheetah to analyze your rides. Gives you all you need (and a lot more that will overwhelm you) to see your progress and chart your rides - plus it's free!

In conjunction with strava (free membership) it's a powerful combination.

bigmat

wavefront wrote:

If you have a PM you could do a lot worse than use Golden Cheetah to analyze your rides. Gives you all you need (and a lot more that will overwhelm you) to see your progress and chart your rides - plus it's free!

In conjunction with strava (free membership) it's a powerful combination.

Might give Golden Cheetah a go - have heard the name but never really checked it out before.

I think Strava overestimated my FTP, and is now underestimating it (perhaps because I haven't been riding at max intensity for the durations it takes account of recently?). If you do the old 20 minutes average at 95% (?) I'm probably down around 18W, which seems a bit more plausible.

danridesbikes

why would it calculate wrong all its doing is using 95% of 20 minute power

okgo

If you regularly ride as hard as you can for periods of 20 minutes or longer then it should be right. However in road racing I could go many races before I ride flat out for 20-60 minutes and I put put marginally less power on my TT bike so those figures throw it too.

janesy

+1 for golden cheetah.

FatTed

janesy wrote:

+1 for golden cheetah.

you could also use excel spread sheet.

iPete

First test out of the way, horrid, not done a solid 20 minutes riding like that this year!
Was a heap on the floor at the end which I guess is a good thing.

Found the sufferfest rubber glove video really useful for someone lazy with instructions.

Is there a way to turn off the speed in my powertap hub?! Don't really want distance or speed recorded.