Vittoria Rubino Pro tyres.

itboffin

I have a set on my summer/autumn commuting bike and as you all know we've had a fair bit of rain recently, it didnt take me long to work out that these tyres dont grip as well as my Conti GPs on the winter commuter, in fact i've avoided any forest roads due to the wet leave and steep gradients, the Conti's do the job but feel bouncy unless i go 90 psi

If i could be arsed i'd switch to Tricomps or the new Sensa on all workhorses, trouble is i have fairly new tyres on all of my bikes except my London single speed, tell ya what i'll order a pair and act as guinea pig, London's road are terrible covered in potholes, glass and oil spills galore

thegreatdivide

rickeverett wrote:

Had Rubisho Pros and moved to GP4000S.

To the person who said spinning up and lack of grip is rider error - thats a negative. My GP4000S have never done this on the same power climbs in the same damp road. Rubino Pros are heavy, uncomfortable and lack grip - especially in comparison to the Continentals.

It's an imbalance of weight causing lack of traction.

meanredspider

itboffin wrote:

i'll order a pair and act as guinea pig,

I like to think of you as a crash test dummy

kangarouge

What about Conti. on the rear and Rubino. on the front? Possibly vice versa?

alan_sherman

Put the grippier tyre on the front. The front wheel takes the forces when braking and steering. Also if the back steps out it can (very occasionally) be recovered. If the front goes, it goes, and you hit the deck.

My remaining Rubino Pro is being used up on the rear. A plus is the tyre is pretty resistant to punctures.

itboffin

meanredspider wrote:

itboffin wrote:

i'll order a pair and act as guinea pig,

I like to think of you as a crash test dummy

there's some truth to that remark :roll:

djaeggi

Rolf F wrote:

You need to actually read the thread! There are a good seven people on this thread who have serious concerns based on personal experience and six who don't find them slippery at all. If this was a thread on a car forum asking for advice about a particular car and half the owners responded by saying that they had had unexpected brake failures then I suspect not many people would be keen to recommend them even if their experience had been fine.

And really, it is a bit insulting and irrelevant to blame rider error. Maybe all the folk who like Rubino Pros do have bike handling skills that make Danny Macaskill look incompentent (and I salute your marvellous skills) but the point is, us humble slightly cack handed incompetents* have no problem handling bikes fitted with other brands of tyres. There is a problem with the Rubino Pro - that is a fact. Not everybody experiences this problem - that is also a fact. If we could just remember this, the thread could be a lot shorter!

*And I should point out that in approaching 50,000 miles of cycling in all weathers, it's only the Rubinos that have scared me. Occasionally I have scared myself but I can tell the difference between my own incompetence and that of the tyre.

That's not quite what I was saying, and I was not meaning to insult. I certainly don't have superior bike handling skills! I just can't square my own personal experience with that of "ride Rubinos and you'll end up in A&E". (And I speak as someone who has ended up in A&E after a particularly bad off, which I blamed on the tyres at the time, but in hindsight was likely diesel!).

I just think that pinning the blame solely on tyres, when there are likely multiple factors and no counterfactual is problematic. And, separately, people are psychologically prone to picking up on "received wisdom". You've clearly got a lot of experience and miles under the belt, but how many of others commenting on Rubinos in generally and adding to the overall noise actually have decent back-to-back experience with Rubinos vs a comparable tyre? And I actually don't disagree with you, Rubinos certainly offer less grip than some other training tyres, and definitely less grip than GP4000, ProRace3/4 etc. But it's an all rounder and I find the trade-off acceptable.

Bottom line, all I'm really saying is that randomness+psychology+the internet can magnify what might be in practice small differences in functional performance. Which is what you're saying re randomness (conditions, luck, whatever), I'm just throwing psychology+the internet into the mix too!

djaeggi

PS Rolf, this kind of demonstrates my point, which you mentioned before I even piped up:

Rolf F wrote:

On a personal level, if it was just me I'd be happy to blame myself for their scariness but it isn't.

Given the potential for multiple factors to contribute to your assessment, you came down decisively on there "being something wrong with Rubinos" based on other peoples reports. If the person before you went through the same mental process, and the person before him/her, and so on, you get to a situation where an accumulated mass of "knowledge" can be initiated by one poor report. Hence the potential for psychology+internet to magnify.

meanredspider

alan sherman wrote:

Put the grippier tyre on the front. The front wheel takes the forces when braking and steering. Also if the back steps out it can (very occasionally) be recovered. If the front goes, it goes, and you hit the deck.

My remaining Rubino Pro is being used up on the rear. A plus is the tyre is pretty resistant to punctures.

Just be aware that increasing grip at one end can affect the overall balance. I'm with you, though, that if you're going to have grip, have it on the front - just be aware that it will have the effect of making the rear seem less grippy.

bigmat

djaeggi wrote:

PS Rolf, this kind of demonstrates my point, which you mentioned before I even piped up:

Rolf F wrote:

On a personal level, if it was just me I'd be happy to blame myself for their scariness but it isn't.

Given the potential for multiple factors to contribute to your assessment, you came down decisively on there "being something wrong with Rubinos" based on other peoples reports. If the person before you went through the same mental process, and the person before him/her, and so on, you get to a situation where an accumulated mass of "knowledge" can be initiated by one poor report. Hence the potential for psychology+internet to magnify.

Is this the equipment version of Dennisn - you can't really comment on a Rubino Pro until you've been out for a drink with it?! I think one of the fundamental points of this kind of forum is that it allows people to share their experience so that occasionally people might learn something. So if someone asks for comments on a tyre, and a lot of people comment that the tyre has issues with grip in certain conditions, that's pretty useful information and the fact that some other people might not have experienced those issues really doesn't change that fact.

djaeggi

Lol! Of course there are differences and it's valid to discuss. It's just that Rubino Pros (and tyres in general, but this is an extreme case!) are unique in that of all the bits of equipment I use, the extreme negative opinion on these is *so* contrary to my personal experience. Here's my take, based on actual experience of Pro4 Endurance/Krylion (2 sets, 3rd about to go on); Rubino Pro (now on 3rd set); Ultremo DD (1 set); Gatorskins (1 set)

Wet grip: Ultremo DD, Pro4 Endurance, Rubino Pro, Gatorskin
Ride quality: Pro4 Endurance, Rubino Pro, Utremo DD, Gatorskin
Cut resistance/Wear: Gatorskin, Rubino Pro, Pro4 Endurance, Ultremo DD
Width (25mm): Pro4 Endurance (fat), Rubino Pro (true), Gatorskin (true), Ultremo DD (narrow)

With puncture protection among this group pretty similar, and Ultremo DDs super expensive and hard to find, I'd buy Pro4 Endurance if my frame could fit them, Rubino Pros otherwise.

I'd love to see some hard data on incidence of prangs due to loss of grip but, until then, I can't square the negativity without considering some kind of reporting bias.

bigmat

But Gatorskins are known to be appalling for grip in the wet, like riding on hosepipes and used for puncture resistance more than anything else, so not really a fair comparison with the others. And by your own admission, Rubino Pros have worse levels of grip than anything you have ridden but them!

FWIW I have ridden the following tyres:

Ultra sport
GP4000
GP4000S
Deda Tre Grinta
Diamante
Rubino
Rubino Pro
Ultremo ZX

In my experience the Vittorias have all suffered with poor grip in wet conditions. The Rubino Pros are better than the standard Rubinos and perhaps on a par with the Diamantes. They are, however, worse than all the others. On the plus side they roll quite nicely (maybe on a par with GP4000, almost as well as the 4000S but behind the Ultremos), they are pretty robust (perhaps the most puncture resistant of all of those) and hard-wearing, and good value. All in all a decent tyre, but they have their flaws.

meanredspider

Yes - I think Rubino Pros are a great all-round tyre. If you need to be a bit circumspect in the wet, I think that's OK. I'd rather trade a bit of wet grip for not getting a flat. Riding a bit slower in the wet is better than fixing a flat in the wet.

itboffin

in the spirit of crash test dummy i went looking for some wet leaves and gravel this morning on with fully loaded panniers commuter shod with pros, nope roads had been swept totally clean by the storm.

i'll keep trying as I want to know how much wet winter grip they have anyway

GGBiker

The folks saying these tyres are good seem to be riding 25mm tyres, that might explain the differing views, perhaps the extra rubber overcomes the issues that the 23mm version has in the wet? I agree they were nice rolling tyres in the dry.

meanredspider

GGBiker wrote:

The folks saying these tyres are good seem to be riding 25mm tyres, that might explain the differing views, perhaps the extra rubber overcomes the issues that the 23mm version has in the wet? I agree they were nice rolling tyres in the dry.

Certainly I've never tried 23mm so there may be something in that observation

Tiesetrotter

I am running 25's. Standard pro's in the summer and tech's in the winter and not had a grip issue! However I have now not tried a different tyre for a long time.

alex222

I have put 600 odd miles on mine, which are 23s, without any issues. Admitedly I am a pretty nervous descender in the wet anyway so read into that what you will. They're certainly a lot better than the Zaffiros that were on the bike previously.

dork_knight

I moved from the Rubino range (running 23/23) going in to Autumn 2012 IIRC which I was mainly using for commuting, I then moved to the Michelin Endurance Pro 4 (the last two years running a mix of 23/25 & 25/25) just for a change as I wanted to try something new but I never had any issues with the Rubinos.

After two punctures on the Pro 4 Endurance last Sunday due to tyre wear I decided to opt for Rubinos again for a change, fitted them yesterday on two bikes with a mix of 23/25 & 25/25 (mudguard clearance issues otherwise it would have been 25/25).

Anyway... after reading this thread yesterday I set off on my commute this morning, they did seem to roll a little better and I remember this being the same for the 23's, so far so good. I then pushed a little hard down a hill hitting the low 40mph range in the wet, all felt good but as I approached the bottom and a bend was coming at me with manhole covers I suddenly thought of this thread which put doubts in my mind about the grip, but I did make it around the corner.

I use a middle of the road SKS Track Pump so the gauge isn't going to be bang on to give accurate PSI readings but I inflated the tyres to similar pressures of the Pro 4, I guess there must be 5/10 psi variations in it, just a blind guess mind you.

I found the tyres to be a lot harder at similar pressures this morning, as such the back end felt it had more bounce when climbing out of the saddle over slippery footpaths so it had less contact area, I think this could be one of the issues so I'm going to drop the pressure by 10 PSI or so which should improve things.

So when thinking about the ride quality *boosh*... bloody glass cut through the tyre and an instant flat.

I think this is just bad luck with needing to adjust to the ride characteristics of the tyre and lowering the PSI for the bike + individuals weight. What doesn't help is reading certain comments and then thinking about what people list as cons when riding, this seems to reflect in confidence when riding.

I guess after a week or two of riding I'll adjust, forget about these comments and repeat the process when I change to another brand of tyre for whatever reason in the future.

thegreatdivide

Dork Knight wrote:

I found the tyres to be a lot harder at similar pressures this morning, as such the back end felt it had more bounce when climbing out of the saddle over slippery footpaths so it had less contact area, I think this could be one of the issues so I'm going to drop the pressure by 10 PSI or so which should improve things..

Sorry to keep dragging it up but this really has nothing to do with the tyre. I can make my rear wheel spin on a wet climb using Veloflex Carbon tubs (aka the bollox) if I don't have the weight correctly balanced across the bike. Climb a wet hill seated, or if you have to climb out the saddle make sure there's enough weight over the rear.

bigmat

thegreatdivide wrote:

Dork Knight wrote:

I found the tyres to be a lot harder at similar pressures this morning, as such the back end felt it had more bounce when climbing out of the saddle over slippery footpaths so it had less contact area, I think this could be one of the issues so I'm going to drop the pressure by 10 PSI or so which should improve things..

Sorry to keep dragging it up but this really has nothing to do with the tyre. I can make my rear wheel spin on a wet climb using Veloflex Carbon tubs (aka the bollox) if I don't have the weight correctly balanced across the bike. Climb a wet hill seated, or if you have to climb out the saddle make sure there's enough weight over the rear.

You're (still) missing the point - people have found that Rubino Pros are more prone to slippage than other tyres in the same circumstances. I guess that means that you need more weight over the back tyre, but if you could be happily dancing on the pedals running Schwalbe or Contis, that's an issue isn't it?

thegreatdivide

BigMat wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Dork Knight wrote:

I found the tyres to be a lot harder at similar pressures this morning, as such the back end felt it had more bounce when climbing out of the saddle over slippery footpaths so it had less contact area, I think this could be one of the issues so I'm going to drop the pressure by 10 PSI or so which should improve things..

Sorry to keep dragging it up but this really has nothing to do with the tyre. I can make my rear wheel spin on a wet climb using Veloflex Carbon tubs (aka the bollox) if I don't have the weight correctly balanced across the bike. Climb a wet hill seated, or if you have to climb out the saddle make sure there's enough weight over the rear.

You're (still) missing the point - people have found that Rubino Pros are more prone to slippage than other tyres in the same circumstances. I guess that means that you need more weight over the back tyre, but if you could be happily dancing on the pedals running Schwalbe or Contis, that's an issue isn't it?

I'm not missing the point at all.

bigmat

thegreatdivide wrote:

BigMat wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Dork Knight wrote:

I found the tyres to be a lot harder at similar pressures this morning, as such the back end felt it had more bounce when climbing out of the saddle over slippery footpaths so it had less contact area, I think this could be one of the issues so I'm going to drop the pressure by 10 PSI or so which should improve things..

Sorry to keep dragging it up but this really has nothing to do with the tyre. I can make my rear wheel spin on a wet climb using Veloflex Carbon tubs (aka the bollox) if I don't have the weight correctly balanced across the bike. Climb a wet hill seated, or if you have to climb out the saddle make sure there's enough weight over the rear.

You're (still) missing the point - people have found that Rubino Pros are more prone to slippage than other tyres in the same circumstances. I guess that means that you need more weight over the back tyre, but if you could be happily dancing on the pedals running Schwalbe or Contis, that's an issue isn't it?

I'm not missing the point at all.

You're saying that wheel slippage has nothing to do with the tyre. That's just wrong. Yes, you can compensate for less grip by putting more weight over the back wheel, but that doesn't change the fundamental grip issue.

thegreatdivide

I currently run:

Veloflex Carbon tubs
Veloflex Corsa clinchers
Vittoria Rubino Pro Tech clinchers

And have previously run amongst others:

Vittoria Corsa tubs
Vittoria Corsa clinchers
Vittoria Rubino Pro 3 clinchers in 23mm and 25mm
Continental GPS4000S clinchers and tubs
Continental Competition tubs

On ALL of these tyres if I get out of the saddle on a wet, steep climb and my weight isn’t balance properly the back will spin. Hence why I’ll climb seated if it’s steep and wet.

itboffin

riding home this evening it was raining but just that light misty spray the roads are clean however just before a slight drop i must have ridden over a splodge of tractor mud, i had a very nasty rear wheel slide followed by a bit of sidewind + overcorrecting front wheel slip, that put me right off my stroke.

I'm pretty certain the pros are more prone to slipping than my Conti, Michelins, Veloflex, Vredestein or Halo that i'm currently running its not put me off them in fact i've bought another set, I'll just take more care in the wet & damp.

itboffin

i've been riding in London and out here in Windshire for a week in dry, damp and wet conditions and so far only two minor slipping incidents nothing dramatic nor anything that would make me consider these tyres to be dangerous just not the best in the wet.

at £10 each from Amazon thats a proper bargain

keezx

Today I did a ride on an old set of Rubino's 25 mm on my winterbike in the wet.
As long as you're training alone they are OK, you can corner like an old woman.
Would not use them in groups though.

mugensi

I fitted Rubino Pro slicks to my winter bike a few weeks ago and have taken them off already and re-fitted a part worn set Schwalbe Luganos which i trust in the wet/rain. The Pro Slicks were very slippery in the wet, I found the front wheel slip while cornering on a very slight bend at low speed and found the rear wheel slip several times on out of the saddle climbing. Now maybe the wheels havent been 'scrubbed' in enough and a few dry spins would take the top layer of rubber off and offer more grip but the Luganos are staying on for now at least. I may use the pro slicks again coming closer to next Spring/Summer.

rolf_f

djaeggi wrote:

Bottom line, all I'm really saying is that randomness+psychology+the internet can magnify what might be in practice small differences in functional performance. Which is what you're saying re randomness (conditions, luck, whatever), I'm just throwing psychology+the internet into the mix too!

It's a fair thing to add into the mix!

Ultimately, we can only go with our own experience. All I know is that the Schwalbe Durano has similar puncture protection as the Rubino Pro but without the dodgy handling in certain conditions and that I'm not the only one who finds this so. Also, I have a scientific background and like to think I can distinguish reasonably well between considered observation and psychology. I bought them with no knowledge of any potential handling issues and only looked into it after I'd had a few near misses and the otherwise completely unexplained off. I suspect most people who have had problems with them also were not aware of the problems before they bought - why would they buy them otherwise?

And true, nobody is selling Duranos for a tenner a go but based on my experience, an extra tenner for the Duranos is a no brainer (or rather a 'keep brain in head-er'!).

Keezx wrote:

Would not use them in groups though.

Certainly agree with that at the moment. I think when the leaves are gone, Rubino Pros are OK but Autumn isn't a good time for them.

meanredspider wrote:

GGBiker wrote:

The folks saying these tyres are good seem to be riding 25mm tyres, that might explain the differing views, perhaps the extra rubber overcomes the issues that the 23mm version has in the wet? I agree they were nice rolling tyres in the dry.

Certainly I've never tried 23mm so there may be something in that observation

Mine are 23s so another fit for that observation. That said, I can't really see the width difference making such a difference unless there is something else significantly different between the tyres.

Another thing to add into the mix is that my tyres turned out to be grey shouldered rather than black (I might not have ordered them if I'd known). I wonder if there is a correlation between tyre colour and slippiness. I never tried any other coloured tyres to compare.

keezx

Rolf F wrote:

Mine are 23s so another fit for that observation. That said, I can't really see the width difference making such a difference unless there is something else significantly different between the tyres.

Another thing to add into the mix is that my tyres turned out to be grey shouldered rather than black (I might not have ordered them if I'd known). I wonder if there is a correlation between tyre colour and slippiness. I never tried any other coloured tyres to compare.

It doesn't have anything to do with the size IMO.
Vittoria does something wrong with the rubbermix in the cheapish tyres which result in the properties discussed here.
When I bought my first set Rubino Pro's in made 2 falls in that season (2011) both on wet tarmac corners.
Never used them after the second fall in races or group training anymore.
It reminded me of the Russian tubulars I used to ride in the 8ties, cheap , light and fast but notorious on wet roads.