Another new wheels thread...

MisterMuncher

Sorry, do I have to check who has disagreed with someone before me before my opinion can be considered valid?

I found the chart silly because it's awash with poor thinking. For example, citing buying the Emonda vs getting wheels at 1400-1500g. This completely fails to recognise that the Emonda has a set of 870g wheels on it, almost a kilo of it's advantage over the (unspecified) control wheelset on the (unspecified) control 2k bike.

In short, it's predicated on the basis of all things being equal. All things clearly aren't.

letap73

MisterMuncher wrote:

Sorry, do I have to check who has disagreed with someone before me before my opinion can be considered valid?

I found the chart silly because it's awash with poor thinking. For example, citing buying the Emonda vs getting wheels at 1400-1500g. This completely fails to recognise that the Emonda has a set of 870g wheels on it, almost a kilo of it's advantage over the (unspecified) control wheelset on the (unspecified) control 2k bike.

In short, it's predicated on the basis of all things being equal. All things clearly aren't.

In answer to your first question no you don't but then you offered no opinion and called someone who was only offering an opinion a "gluebag" .

Second question: Where do you get a set of wheels that have a mass of 870g?

ugo.santalucia

letap73 wrote:

Second question: Where do you get a set of wheels that have a mass of 870g?

Not difficult: a pair of chinese 20-25 mm carbon tubs built on Bitex hubs with CX Ray spokes will be 900 grams and probably 300-400 pounds... you can go lighter by using Sapim superspoke at the front...

MisterMuncher

http://www.tune.de/produkt/felgenbremse/skyliner

These being the wheels fitted to the Emonda.

As for calling someone a "gluebag", well, I don't think it's a particularly harsh remark. I apologise if it offended your sensibilities. I didn't do it because he was offering an opinion. It was for citing a graphic he'd made himself as a source. That's incredibly poor form.

rolf_f

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

Ugo - You don't like my reviews and methods. I get it. I'm not a fan of handbuilt wheels being your answer to most post queries.

Surely if you are 'intheknow' then you probably would like Ugos handbuilt response to most queries. This for the fact that logically they almost invariably make the most sense. Look at the pros and cons.

Handbuilts
Pros
Cheap to buy
Built to suit riders weight and needs
Cheap to repair

Cons
Often not the latest technology
Don't look as blingy as factory wheels.

Factory
Pros
Do often use latest technology
More stylish

Cons
Expensive to buy
Eyewateringly expensive to repair if possible at all
Often way over engineered for lighter riders

Hopefully the above isn't very controversial and hopefully I've not missed anything.

Given that, as you say yourself in your little link, different wheels don't really affect things so much anyway we can probably ignore 'latest technology' on the basis that it makes bugger all difference.

That really only leaves looks as being where factory wheels have a significant advantage over handbuilts. And anyone 'in the know' is surely going to be keen to remind anyone who is interested that that really shouldn't be the most important reason to choose a particular pair of wheels (even if in the end looks do win out!).

But show me where I can buy a factory wheelset that weighs less than 1400g and costs less than £300 and I might be interested in replacing the ones of that spec I made myself (though they only cost me £200 for the parts).

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

Surely if you are 'intheknow' then you probably would like Ugos handbuilt response to most queries. This for the fact that logically they almost invariably make the most sense. Look at the pros and cons.

Why would he consider hand built wheels in his reviews? They are not stocked by any of the 35 online retailers he has a commercial deal with...

darkhairedlord

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Surely if you are 'intheknow' then you probably would like Ugos handbuilt response to most queries. This for the fact that logically they almost invariably make the most sense. Look at the pros and cons.

Why would he consider hand built wheels in his reviews? They are not stocked by any of the 35 online retailers he has a commercial deal with...

He might if he thought you would chuck him a few quid and let you rip "his" reviews from your blog.
I really don't see what this intheknow malarkey is all about, he clearly isn't in the know if he has to rip everyone else's reviews. Mighty as well just get wiggle to post on here suggesting what ever they have in stock...

yes, I blame wiggle!

Deet001

Slowbike wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

don't worry about the OP, he had his answers, we can digress...

I don't think he has though ... everyone has been banging on about weight of the wheels or weight of the rider and nobody has voiced an opinion on the quality of the hubs.

I would guess the Axis 1.0 wheelset is the bog standard wheelset that came with his Crux - weight is one thing, but the quality of the hub, how freely it spins, how it turns under load etc is another. IME, putting on just the next set of wheels up (FR7/RS10 - rider weight permitting) can make quite a difference to the feel of the bike.
Perhaps I should go out and do a quantitative test with some Alexrims S480's vs Fulcrum Racing 5's ... but I know I'd find the later easier to get up to and maintain speed ...

Slowbike, thanks for this - I have no idea how different wheels feel - it's difficult to compare these sorts of things without forking out the cash first as different bikes feel different anyway (and I've only been cycling since March so next to no experience). Do hubs really make that much of a difference?

And on a related note, I currently use 28mm tyres, I understand higher width at equal pressure = lower rolling resistance but at a certain point aero benefits of thinner tyres outweigh rolling resistance increases. I'll be going pretty slowly up all these hills so 28mm is theoretically a better choice than 25mm, right?

slowbike

Deet001 wrote:

Slowbike, thanks for this - I have no idea how different wheels feel - it's difficult to compare these sorts of things without forking out the cash first as different bikes feel different anyway (and I've only been cycling since March so next to no experience). Do hubs really make that much of a difference?

No problem - I can only offer you my limited experience - going from the bog standard wheels to a set of Fulcrum Racing wheels felt like a miracle cure - in reality it was probably a mix of better wheels coupled with shot bearings on the bog standard wheels and slick tyres on the new ones.
I'm now back on a set of bog standard wheels (for winter use - too many bikes and too much of a skinflint to throw the wheels away;) ) and it really feels like it - I'm still using the summer bike for club runs and that has a good wheelset on it - so I have something to compare against.

Deet001 wrote:

And on a related note, I currently use 28mm tyres, I understand higher width at equal pressure = lower rolling resistance but at a certain point aero benefits of thinner tyres outweigh rolling resistance increases. I'll be going pretty slowly up all these hills so 28mm is theoretically a better choice than 25mm, right?

Going down to 25mm isn't going to magically double your speed, but they may be lighter (depends which tyre you get - I bet you're on the standard specialised ones - they're horrible!) - I think if you could couple a new wheelset with some good 25mm tyres you'd feel the difference in the ride - I keep forgetting you've got a CX bike - yet you're using it 100% on road?

Deet001

Yes, 100% on road. When I first started the Crux just called out to me and also there are a couple of hills on my commute that I couldn't get up but I can go around on dirt tracks instead and didn't think a road bike would be a good idea on them. I can do the hills now,still love the Crux though eyeing the new Tarmac Expert in a lustful way.

Switched my tyres over for some Conti Four Seasons a few months back as there were some pretty knobbly tyres on originally - that made a huge difference.