Cable disc brakes - any good?

Initialised

Veronese68 wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

I thought it was the pads that did not like long descents anyway?

Pad materials can be made to withstand extremely high temperatures. Brake fluid boils at varying temperatures according to the type of fluid and how old it is. Brake fluid is very hygroscopic, as it absorbs water the boiling point drops. It would probably be quite easy on a long descent to boil fluid by dragging brakes, there are not many hills long enough around here so for me it's a non issue. Where Ugo comes from in Italy there are, so it could be an issue for him. With time they may well resolve the issue, but if you ride in mountains it's wise to be prudent.
On the other hand some people can heat their rims enough to blow tyres in mountains, so rim brakes are far from perfect.

Again that depends, whether you are using mineral or DOT brake fluid. Mineral stays with a constant boiling point, does not degrade over time but does not absorb air or water so any that gets in goes to the top and bottom of the system respectively, this can cause unpredictable braking as both air and water will expand as they are heated. Either way a good bleed every year or two and this won't be an issue.

The heating problem really comes dragging the brakes all the way down the mountain, rather than only braking when you need to in short sharp bursts. Sure bigger rotors, cooling fins on pads, rotors and brake lines may help but correct technique will do more to control brake fade.

ugo.santalucia

Initialised wrote:

The heating problem really comes dragging the brakes all the way down the mountain, rather than only braking when you need to in short sharp bursts. Sure bigger rotors, cooling fins on pads, rotors and brake lines may help but correct technique will do more to control brake fade.

This is a typical answer... "look at your braking technique": the point is that I challenge you to come down Hardknott or Porlock Hill without dragging your brakes... there are similarly steep and windy roads that go for miles rather than hundreds of yards in the alps... problem is people think the Galibier or the Mont Ventoux are as steep a descent as there is... which is absolutely not the case...

super_prestige

I use TRP Hydro on my winter bike and have no problems at all, although they have only done 500miles since I picked the bike up a few weeks ago. They have done plenty of mixed riding, and have needed no tweeking at all.
The lever feel was a little grabby at first, once bedded in they are fine. If a was two be critical, it would be the pads are probably a mm or so too small, because when you apply the front brake there is a small judder as the brakes bite.
A small price to pay for improved wet winter weather braking.

How Far is too Far

Just done a ride on my MTB to day and was thinking about this tread, I dragged the brakes all the way down the long decent and suffered no brake fade or dragging brakes at the bottom. I am 85kg so the brakes were working hard.

http://app.strava.com/activities/204922040 this is a fairly long decent and one you have to brake most of the way down

I have done many of the big climbs in the Alps on my road bike and in most cases you can try to keep the brakes cool between the corners but not all. It often worries me on the very long steed descents on my road bike about wheel temperatures. That is why I am now looking at upgrading my winter CX bike to be ok for hilly road rides as well. Give me disk be it cable or Hydro's any day for hilly and winter rides. I will still keep my normally braked road bike for flatter rides.

gloomyandy

Many cycle tourists seem pretty happy with BB7s from what I can see on the CTC site.

I've happily used a very heavily laden touring bike (four panniers full camping gear food etc.) on many Scottish descents (including the Bealach na Bà) with no problems with Avid hydraulic discs, the brakes felt very solid and easy to control. Not as long as some Alpine routes I'm sure but a lot more weight than a typical road bike.

solosuperia

I have a cheap hack bike with "Tektro" or is it "Tetro" something like that...... Can't be bothered to go out in the rain to the shed to check correct name.
Bloody ace, no problems used in all conditions never maintained..(Better check if I need to replace front pads!).
Inspire more confidence than my Campag record on my real bike!!!!!!!
Down hill, Campag start feathering brakes early, on the hack come rain or shine leave any thought of braking to the last moment then slam them on.
Not tried hydraulics, But to me cable discs are the bees knees............... Whats special about bees knees??????

kayakerchris

My commuter has cable disc and the good bike has Di2 hydraulic.
I don't believe that the hydraulic has been designed for CX, it is a mainstream road system.

Both systems work perfectly. I took the good bike to the alps in the summer and came down some fairly steep stuff in the rain. I would have been scared stiff coming down 20% on the wet with rim brakes. On discs just not a problem. Constant control with no slipping.

In the Peak district again in the rain on dirty mucky roads the discs win everytime.

cable versus hydraulic? I suspect I can just feel a tiny bit of cable stretch initially compared to the hydraulics but this is like comparing Sora rim brakes with Ultegra rim brakes.

matt@theforce

Cable discs are great (if setup correctly)

I've commuted on rim brakes & cable/hydros brakes (all year round through the Peak District). Rim brakes were perfectly acceptable although they do take they time to work when wet/gritty & my brake blocks wore very quickly on my 34mile commutes.

The hydro discs were a set of XT M785's on my Marin H/T, they were/are just plain awesome but felt too much for the road, I've since used 105levers with Hayes CX5's and Rival levers with BB7's & TRP Spyres.
The best cable setup's I've ridden are the 105 levers with CX5's and Rival levers with TRP Spyres. The spyres feel better to me than the CX5's but are sadly let down by a poor fork design allowing the brake to move the wheel under hard braking

Cable disc's all the way for me with cx/road bikes in the future, although I would like to try the new Ultegra Hydro's as I find the Rival hoods uncomfortable compared to the 105/Ultegra's I've tried.

detsamma

What do people on here think about TRP HY/RD compared to TRP Spyres? Difference on Wiggle is almost 40£. I've heard really good things about hte HY/RD but is it worth it? They're going on my future touring bike so stopping power while fully loaded is a priority.

matt@theforce

I can't comment on the HY/RD's or the Spyres for touring (as I haven't toured on them yet) but they are better than my CX5's and they were awesome when I did a little touring earlier this year, I'd be very comfortable using the Spyres for touring, personally I won't look at the HY/RD's, if/when I choose togo for a hydraulic setup I will go for Shimano's full setup

Monty Dog

My mate has HyRds and Spyres - really rates them. Been a user of BB7s for 9 years - both road and MTB - anyone who disses them is either an incompetent mechanic or talking out their ar$e. I'm just building a 5" fatbike - it will run cable discs because they are reliable and cheap and don't go wrong - I'll run full-length outers and decent cables. I may go to the Tektro Spyre MTB simply because of the dual piston design means no brake rub.

detsamma

Thank you both for your input! So maybe BB7s then. But doesn't the open hydraulic system and the automatic pad wear adjustment of the HY/RD give them a slight edge, at least with compressionless outers? What is it your mate doesn't like about them?

ugo.santalucia

detsamma wrote:

Thank you both for your input! So maybe BB7s then. But doesn't the open hydraulic system and the automatic pad wear adjustment of the HY/RD give them a slight edge, at least with compressionless outers? What is it your mate doesn't like about them?

You are overthinking it... just get a pair of decent cable brakes and forget about it

dnrc

I have BB7's on my CX bike.

I got the calipers secondhand and i'm sure the pads need changing, but after a few initial rides where i had to tweak them they work perfectly and have been untouched now for a few months.

Brake feel is good and i've confidently used them on some difficult off road and some high speed (nearly 60mph) on road riding.

eric_draven

my cable brake are great,but if i was to buy a road bike with hydro's they would be shimano,i have been running their brakes on my mountain bikes for about 10 years now,and they don't suffer from brake fade like other makes,and have brilliant modulation,before the question of long desents i have ridden at Morzine,Verbier,Chamonix and Whistler on DH bikes,25-30 minutes of technical steep runs in one go in Whistler,also ridden in the alps on a trail bike on very long single track desents,Shimano's have never failed to impress me

detsamma

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You are overthinking it... just get a pair of decent cable brakes and forget about it

I thought that was what internet bike forums were for, overthinking things together

(but yeah, you're right)

veronese68

detsamma wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You are overthinking it... just get a pair of decent cable brakes and forget about it

I thought that was what internet bike forums were for, overthinking things together

(but yeah, you're right)

Or, as some do, overthink it and then weigh up all of the arguments at which point you discount all the ones you disagree with and pick the lone voice that agrees with you as justification to do exactly what you wanted to do in the first place.

freefall_junkie

I have tried Avid cable disc brakes and hated them - they needed constant tweaking to stop them rubbing and they didn't feel anything like as nice to use as the Ultegra rim brakes on my other bike. To me there is something fundamentally wrong with a disc brake which only moves one pad, effectively pushing the disc over into the other pad which remains static.

It is going to be interesting to see which way the market moves with hydraulic discs though. I suspect road bikes may go the same way as mountain bikes, with pretty well all road bikes having them within a few years, especially if the UCI allow them in pro racing. Then again, the benefits are not nearly as clear cut for road bikes as they are on mountain bikes, and a lot of roadies still seem to regard them as being pretty uncool. No doubt that will change fast when/if someone wins a grand tour on a hydraulic disc bike.

Daz555

freefall_junkie wrote:

No doubt that will change fast when/if someone wins a grand tour on a hydraulic disc bike.

For safety reasons (and practicalities for neutral service etc) I suspect we'll see the entire pro peloton move to discs at the same time - and will move to an agreed standard in terms of disc size etc.

Initialised

freefall_junkie wrote:

I suspect road bikes may go the same way as mountain bikes, with pretty well all road bikes having them within a few years, especially if the UCI allow them in pro racing.

There are around 10 different companies that make hydraulic disc brakes for mountain bikes.

There are only two that make them for road bikes (four if you include conversion boxes), I can't see that changing until electronic shifting becomes mainstream and the interface to the shifter gets standardised.

freefall_junkie

Initialised wrote:

freefall_junkie wrote:

I suspect road bikes may go the same way as mountain bikes, with pretty well all road bikes having them within a few years, especially if the UCI allow them in pro racing.

There are around 10 different companies that make hydraulic disc brakes for mountain bikes.

There are only two that make them for road bikes (four if you include conversion boxes), I can't see that changing until electronic shifting becomes mainstream and the interface to the shifter gets standardised.

Curious to know your reasoning for this? Shimano have already launched 2015 mechanical 105 with hydraulic discs and Sram have 2 or 3 mechanical road groupsets with hydro discs. As far as I know you can only have Ultegra hydro discs with electronic shifters, but that is sure to change.

veronese68

freefall_junkie wrote:

Initialised wrote:

freefall_junkie wrote:

I suspect road bikes may go the same way as mountain bikes, with pretty well all road bikes having them within a few years, especially if the UCI allow them in pro racing.

There are around 10 different companies that make hydraulic disc brakes for mountain bikes.

There are only two that make them for road bikes (four if you include conversion boxes), I can't see that changing until electronic shifting becomes mainstream and the interface to the shifter gets standardised.

Curious to know your reasoning for this? Shimano have already launched 2015 mechanical 105 with hydraulic discs and Sram have 2 or 3 mechanical road groupsets with hydro discs. As far as I know you can only have Ultegra hydro discs with electronic shifters, but that is sure to change.

I reckon it's because making a brake lever with a couple of micro switches in it is a lot easier than making a brake lever that also has to have a mechanical gear shifter in it. So, nobody in the aftermarket will make a hydraulic brake lever with a mechanical shifter leaving the market to Shimano, SRAM and possibly Campag. With standardised electronic interface aftermarket manufacturers may be able to get involved.

socistep

I've just purchased a Cannondale Synapse Tiagra which has cable disc brakes as a 'winter' bike compared to rim brake CAAD8 (currently off the road with suspected cracked frame)

the cable brakes do seem better, especially in rain, and offer more control and quicker stopping however am finding a bit of 'judder' on the front forks, also the rear brake doesn't seem as well set up.

Early days but will review over the winter!

Ber Nard

Veronese68 wrote:

freefall_junkie wrote:

Initialised wrote:

freefall_junkie wrote:

I suspect road bikes may go the same way as mountain bikes, with pretty well all road bikes having them within a few years, especially if the UCI allow them in pro racing.

There are around 10 different companies that make hydraulic disc brakes for mountain bikes.

There are only two that make them for road bikes (four if you include conversion boxes), I can't see that changing until electronic shifting becomes mainstream and the interface to the shifter gets standardised.

Curious to know your reasoning for this? Shimano have already launched 2015 mechanical 105 with hydraulic discs and Sram have 2 or 3 mechanical road groupsets with hydro discs. As far as I know you can only have Ultegra hydro discs with electronic shifters, but that is sure to change.

I reckon it's because making a brake lever with a couple of micro switches in it is a lot easier than making a brake lever that also has to have a mechanical gear shifter in it. So, nobody in the aftermarket will make a hydraulic brake lever with a mechanical shifter leaving the market to Shimano, SRAM and possibly Campag. With standardised electronic interface aftermarket manufacturers may be able to get involved.

Going off topic slightly; is there any reason, patents or otherwise, why third party manufacturers don't make shifters? What's to stop the likes of Hope or Formula making their own STI/Ergo style units? I can understand there's never been a need in MTB as the brakes and shifters can be separate components, but there's surely a big enough market now to make it worth while for road bikes. .

ugo.santalucia

Ber Nard wrote:

Going off topic slightly; is there any reason, patents or otherwise, why third party manufacturers don't make shifters? What's to stop the likes of Hope or Formula making their own STI/Ergo style units? I can understand there's never been a need in MTB as the brakes and shifters can be separate components, but there's surely a big enough market now to make it worth while for road bikes. .

It's an expensive business.. if you want to shift those shifters, you need to sponsor some PRO tour teams... which is quite an expensive proposition. I don't think Hope has the capacity to do that... Formula is little more than a sticker.

Microshift makes shifters, but they don't sponsor PRO teams, hence you didn't even know they existed...

Ber Nard

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's an expensive business.. if you want to shift those shifters, you need to sponsor some PRO tour teams... which is quite an expensive proposition. I don't think Hope has the capacity to do that... Formula is little more than a sticker.

Microshift makes shifters, but they don't sponsor PRO teams, hence you didn't even know they existed...

I do know they exist but they manufacture complete drivetrains including the terribly named Arsis.

With the growing market for discs on road bikes that clearly isn't influenced by the pro peloton, I'd have thought it would be worth a punt. Makes me wonder if any design that was perfectly compatible with the big three's groupsets would be so close to the original as to be considered a copy.