Cable disc brakes - any good?

big_chris-2

Pondering my first road bike having ridden off-road for many years. A lot of 2015 bikes seem to have cable disc brakes - what's the general feeling here?

Cable discs on mountain bikes are generally not the best in my experience and only appear on bottom end bikes - they feel quite wooden and gritty at the lever, especially the rear since the cable is longer, and the cables themselves stretch too.

I've read various reviews of road bikes with cable discs and none have mentioned any issues so perhaps they've come on some since I last used them?

imposter2.0

Cable disks are ok, though not as efficient as hydros. The main barrier with hydro on the road at the moment is the availability of levers to operate them.

rodgers73

My Boardman Comp hybrid has them. They feel much better than my usual calliper 105 brakes.

spankwilder

The manufacturers are taking the piss out of the roadies. Why does a £500 MTB get fluid, but a £1500 road bike gets cables? must be a lot of technology in that lever!

Initialised

My AVID BB5s were so bad that I replaced them with hydraulics because they'd seized up within a year of using them. While they worked they were pretty good. But constantly tweaking the cables to keep them firm was a pain and the mechanism for doing that eventually seized.

I now have TRP Parabox brakes which is a cable to hydraulic conversion box that sits under the stem meaning that I don't need to change to high priced hydraulic levers. The calipers are the same as the TRP Dash Carbon and Hylex so a good high end dual piston design which is cross compatible with Shimano pads. I haven't tested with finned pads but I think they'll fit as the design of the caliper is a very similar shape to the 685/785/985 Shimano calipers.

@spankwilder: MTB hydros are cheap because there are 8 or so different manufacturers making them in a very competetive marketplace. For road bikes all that shift gear is getting in the way. Hopefully when electronic shifting is mainstream (once mass market an electric derailleur and shifter (it's just a pair of switches) is cheaper than a mechanical to manufacture) we'll see a range of road levers from Magura, Hope, Formula, Hayes where all you have to do is plug in (a hopefully standardised) cable and pick according to what switch layout suits your riding style. In reality it'll take a while for Campag/Shimano/SRAM to give up their triopoly on road levers.

Anonymous

I would avoid cable personally. Mine (CX bike) are horrible and I will probably upgrade to hydraulic disc callipers at some point.

My road bike rim brakes are much nicer to use.
Am not really into disc brakes on a road bike anyway. Would love to try hydraulic rim brakes.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

I would avoid cable personally. Mine (CX bike) are horrible and I will probably upgrade to hydraulic disc callipers at some point.

My road bike rim brakes are much nicer to use.
Am not really into disc brakes on a road bike anyway. Would love hydraulic rim brakes ideally.

What's the issue?

Anonymous

Maybe just not set up that well. Maybe needs better pads?

Problem is they feel spongy and don't stop that great.
I also hate seeing the cable/arm moving around (I know an hydraulic calliper upgrade will still do that :-( )

What road bikes actually have discs anyway?
Only ones I have noticed cost a fortune. Reasonably priced ones look more like CX bikes to me.

Seems to be mainly sportive type bikes that have discs.

Just noticed a CAAD 10 with Hydros and 52/36 chainrings though.

backo

I rate them (cable disc brakes) and finding them an improvement on my commute over rim brakes.

The biggest improvement for me is riding in the rain ....they perform much better especially during the winter months when you commute 5 days a week. the amount of grim that builds up on rim brake pads over the course of a week during the winter really affect braking in the wet in my experience whereas the disc brakes continue to perform as normal.

Doubt I would buy a "summer" bike with discs but for winter riding where you ride everyday in all conditions and cant be bothered to wash your bike each day then they are worth it.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

Maybe just not set up that well. Maybe needs better pads?

Problem is they feel spongy and don't stop that great.
I also hate seeing the cable/arm moving around (I know an hydraulic calliper upgrade will still do that :-( )

So basically you are slashing cable disc brakes but admit it might be that yours are not set up properly...

I tend to agree, they need to be set up properly

veronese68

I had BB7s on my bike initially and they were plenty powerful enough. the only gripes were that the feel was a bit dead and they occasionally needed adjusting. I have since upgraded to a Parabox, it was an ex demo and too cheap to refuse, and the feel has improved but is still not as good as the full hydro on my MTB.
So long as you get decent cable brakes and they are properly set up they are fine, but not as good as full hydraulics.

hanhamreds

I had BB5's on my Boardman CX Team - absolutely terrible, in need of constant adjustment and generally poor braking performance - this may have been due to the interrupters though.

the 105's on my new bike are miles better.

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Maybe just not set up that well. Maybe needs better pads?

Problem is they feel spongy and don't stop that great.
I also hate seeing the cable/arm moving around (I know an hydraulic calliper upgrade will still do that :-( )

So basically you are slashing cable disc brakes but admit it might be that yours are not set up properly...

I tend to agree, they need to be set up properly

Kind of, but not really 'slashing' them. I just said avoid them (as rim or hydraulic are a much better option on a road bike IMO). Its not like you need disc brakes on a road bike so why suffer them?
Money would be better spent on a better rim brake set/groupset/levers/pads/cables IMO.
They are still a bit pants even if working at their best.
Do not have any real 'set up' issues with rim or hydraulic brakes on any other bike so forgive me for hating them.

I mainly just feel that braking at the hub via a cable does not really work and will soon be for only budget bikes, just like MTB is now.

veronese68

Carbonator wrote:

Its not like you need disc brakes on a road bike so why suffer them?

It depends how you use the bike, use it in all weathers and they are definitely a big advantage.

big_chris-2

Hmmm... I'm still not convinced. Brakes can really transform the way a bike feels for me, and if they're not right then it's gonna annoy me.

I've looked at hydros and it seems that unless you pay SRAM or Shimano ~£400 for the pleasure then you're stuck with cables! And given that these 2015 bikes don't have caliper mounts then it leaves little choice.

veronese68

BiG CHRIS wrote:

Hmmm... I'm still not convinced. Brakes can really transform the way a bike feels for me, and if they're not right then it's gonna annoy me.

I've looked at hydros and it seems that unless you pay SRAM or Shimano ~£400 for the pleasure then you're stuck with cables! And given that these 2015 bikes don't have caliper mounts then it leaves little choice.

I understand that, I'm not convinced that good cable discs feel any worse than rim brakes though, after all they are still cable operated. The problem being if you try a disc bike the brakes won't be at their best until they have bedded in.
In your position I'd get a bike with decent cable discs, bearing in mind I may upgrade in future. If I was only going to use it in summer I might consider rim brakes. If I had another bike to use I may consider holding out for next year to see what comes out.

ugo.santalucia

BiG CHRIS wrote:

Hmmm... I'm still not convinced. Brakes can really transform the way a bike feels for me, and if they're not right then it's gonna annoy me.

I've looked at hydros and it seems that unless you pay SRAM or Shimano ~£400 for the pleasure then you're stuck with cables! And given that these 2015 bikes don't have caliper mounts then it leaves little choice.

Looks like nothing will convince you... I suggest you stick to rim brakes and deal with the consequences...

Anonymous

Veronese68 wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Its not like you need disc brakes on a road bike so why suffer them?

It depends how you use the bike, use it in all weathers and they are definitely a big advantage.

Agreed but just do it properly and get hydraulic.

At the end of the day cable disc brakes are pretty cr4p and a cost compromise. You simply need more grunt and modulation if trying to brake your bike from the hubs IMO.

In all weathers you are probably better off with something other than an out and out road bike anyway.

Initialised

Carbonator wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Its not like you need disc brakes on a road bike so why suffer them?

It depends how you use the bike, use it in all weathers and they are definitely a big advantage.

Agreed but just do it properly and get hydraulic.

At the end of the day cable disc brakes are pretty cr4p and a cost compromise. You simply need more grunt and modulation if trying to brake your bike from the hubs IMO.

In all weathers you are probably better off with something other than an out and out road bike anyway.

For me it was the maintenance rather than a lack of performance. With single pull cable disc brakes you're constantly having to adjust for pad wear, the uneven push from one side can warp the discs

I have a very basic Tektro HD301 (cheap, OEM) brake with a 180mm rotor on the front of my MTB and that is better than the XTR V brakes (pretty much as good as rim brakes get) on my other MTB. The XTR-Vs out performed my BB5s in all but the worst rain or when it was cold enough for ice to form on the rims (that's fun on the morning commute). Some day road hydraulics will be this way...

eric_draven

I bought a Charge Plug3 2nd hand earlier this year,it came with Promax Render R cable discs on it,and i am really liking them,pretty constant feel great in the wet,main reason of purchase was to commute to work,and do a few coast to coasts,now starting to prefer these to my Ultegra rim brakes on my Focus,can't imagine the power of the XT's on my MTB on a road bike

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

At the end of the day cable disc brakes are pretty cr4p and a cost compromise. .

Says who? You? Is your mechanical knowledge of bike parts good enough to say that mechanical disc brakes are a crap compromise?
I've used the above for 5 years, many of them and they are very good, not a compromise to anything... hydraulic brakes have a more expensive feel, but at the end of the day they do exactly the same thing. A Bentley feels luxurious but a Ford Mondeo does exactly the same job... in fact there are many occasions where it's best to have a Mondeo. Hydraulics have their limitations, in that they are not designed for long and steep descents... remember mountain bike and cyclocross are their application, neither normally deals with long descents. I thought about hydraulics, but I am not convinced I would trust them to come down the Mortirolo

How Far is too Far

I have had bikes with both BB5 and BB7, I find the 5's work ok but need regular TLC. The 7's are far better and seem to need less TLC.

I am currenty looking for a new winter bike and fancy a CX bike with the new Sram Rival 22 Hyd brakes, like on the CAADX Rival.

I am hoping they will be as powerful as the BB7 but need very little looking after.

Has anyone used the current Rival Hydro leaver yet?

Rich...

metronome

I've got a CaadX Rival 22. The Hyrdo's are great. Powerful, good modulation, really nice to use. I'm very pleased. I can't compare them to road cable brakes but my decision for hydro was based on MTB cable vs hydro.

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

At the end of the day cable disc brakes are pretty cr4p and a cost compromise. .

Says who? You? Is your mechanical knowledge of bike parts good enough to say that mechanical disc brakes are a crap compromise?
I've used the above for 5 years, many of them and they are very good, not a compromise to anything... hydraulic brakes have a more expensive feel, but at the end of the day they do exactly the same thing. A Bentley feels luxurious but a Ford Mondeo does exactly the same job... in fact there are many occasions where it's best to have a Mondeo. Hydraulics have their limitations, in that they are not designed for long and steep descents... remember mountain bike and cyclocross are their application, neither normally deals with long descents. I thought about hydraulics, but I am not convinced I would trust them to come down the Mortirolo

Why don't they like long descents?

I think it will go the same way as with MTB, but if not I will just stick with rim brakes (which I kind of am anyway).
Cable discs seem pretty cr4p to me, but only time will tell I guess.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

Why don't they like long descents?
.

You add an extra degree of complication, in that the fluid can overheat, whilst a cable doesn't suffer temperature changes
The best disc brakes, with the best feel and modulation are those specific for trial bikes, but if you take them down a mountain they will try to kill you

marcusjb

Cable discs are just fine. I've used BB7 and now TRP Spyres on tandems and they've both been more than fine to stop us (OK, we're a light team at 120kg), bike (20-something Kg) and luggage (probably 30Kg). 203mm rotors though.

Been a few years since I've used hydraulic discs - they do feel a little nicer, but wouldn't want them touring or in the big mountains.

Difficult to split for bikes that have S&S on them as well.

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Why don't they like long descents?
.

You add an extra degree of complication, in that the fluid can overheat, whilst a cable doesn't suffer temperature changes
The best disc brakes, with the best feel and modulation are those specific for trial bikes, but if you take them down a mountain they will try to kill you

Sorry ugo, I just don't buy that.
I thought it was the pads that did not like long descents anyway?

When I see pros crashing out on hydraulic discs and using cable instead I will reconsider, but until then the future is hydraulic IMO.

I am sticking with rim anyway and that would be my advice to the OP if he is a bit of a down hill demon and current hydraulic brakes are such death traps on out and out road bikes.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

Sorry ugo, I just don't buy that.
I thought it was the pads that did not like long descents anyway?

When I see pros crashing out on hydraulic discs and using cable instead I will reconsider, but until then the future is hydraulic IMO.

I am sticking with rim anyway and that would be my advice to the OP if he is a bit of a down hill demon and current hydraulic brakes are such death traps on out and out road bikes.

Of course hydraulic can be made safe, cars are an example... what I said is that thus far hydraulics have been designed for the needs of MTB and CX and not for road bikes.
It's up to you where you put your money, but when it comes to brakes the only thing I care about is how safe they are.... modulation, feel and perceived stoppage power are all nice things but they come way down the list. A brake that works consistently is better than a brake that is very powerful.
In summer, to come down an alpine descent, I only trust cable discs and sintered pads... don't even want to use organic pads, which are otherwise superior. However, this is my decision, you can do as you please of course.

veronese68

Carbonator wrote:

I thought it was the pads that did not like long descents anyway?

Pad materials can be made to withstand extremely high temperatures. Brake fluid boils at varying temperatures according to the type of fluid and how old it is. Brake fluid is very hygroscopic, as it absorbs water the boiling point drops. It would probably be quite easy on a long descent to boil fluid by dragging brakes, there are not many hills long enough around here so for me it's a non issue. Where Ugo comes from in Italy there are, so it could be an issue for him. With time they may well resolve the issue, but if you ride in mountains it's wise to be prudent.
On the other hand some people can heat their rims enough to blow tyres in mountains, so rim brakes are far from perfect.

Anonymous

I thought ugo was from Wandsworth.

Is any of this actually relevant to the OP? :roll:

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

I thought ugo was from Wandsworth.

Is any of this actually relevant to the OP? :roll:

RIchmond... but I come from northern Italy and go there once or twice every year. I have my local climbs and descents and a few of them are quite tricky... there is a section of 5 Km at 10% average coming down Andrate (used as a climb in the Giro a couple of years ago) that years back caused a pair of taped tubular tyres to get displaced from the rim... basically I found the valve bent ad 45 degrees at the bottom... not overly keen to try my luck with hydraulics down there to be honest.
There are descents that I have completely given up, as in the past (rim brakes) they cause rims to overheat.... and that's alloy rims, not carbon... coming down Monte Scalaro has always been tricky: there are over 40 hairpins in 7 miles and the average is 9%, which basically means you are always on the brakes... I no longer do it with any cable brake, let alone hydraulics.
I am thinking of getting a pair of TRP HyRD to use in Britain and keep the fully mechanical for the trips to the alps