Dangerous Driving

delete_my_account

To whom do I report dangerous driving?

I had altercations with two different vehicles on a ride yesterday which I considered to be incredibly dangerous driving given there were 12 of us on bikes. I phoned 101 to report them and mentioned that I have a helmet camera and therefore footage of said incidents but the person I talked to refused to send both through to the road policing unit "because they are very busy" and would only send the worse one. He made me choose which one this was. I was also made to feel like I had done something wrong due to the fact that I had reported other drivers previously.

The fact that there are worse crimes going on and that I've reported people's driving previously, doesn't take away from the fact that both of these drivers were inches away from hitting someone and couldn't care less.

Cheers

qube

Why not pay a visit to your local plod rather than phoning them?

delete_my_account

Would they care any more if I went to visit them in person?

Colinthecop

Qube wrote:

Why not pay a visit to your local plod rather than phoning them?

Because his local station is likely to be closed...?

arran77

Qube wrote:

Why not pay a visit to your local plod rather than phoning them?

Probably all shut down like they are round here :roll:

delete_my_account

Surprisingly there's an actual real-life functioning police station nearby. I just can't see them giving any more of a crap if I go there in person.

qube

But at least you might get seen by someone who cares, rather than being fobbed off by the phone operator??

arran77

MichaelMLFC92 wrote:

Surprisingly there's an actual real-life functioning police station nearby. I just can't see them giving any more of a crap if I go there in person.

That's the spirit, glass half empty :P

delete_my_account

Based on my experience with them on the phone, that's the way it'll likely go.

Do other people go to the station and report bad driving or is that weird? It seems strange to me that they appear to not care much at all about near misses and drivers who know they've done something wrong but don't care, yet these drivers are one step away from hitting people... in which case they would do something

arran77

If you don't do what you can to report this then you don't really have a case to be complaining about stuff like this in the future do you so I'd be going down and reporting it.

If you then still feel that you are genuinely not being treated seriously then you can complain.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/

Flâneur

I ride with a few coppers so on the rare occasion something terrible has happened they just let traffic know the next day with the plate number. Generally I'm lucky to experience more than 6 or so of any driving episode I would report in a year. Go me

delete_my_account

Next time I'll try going and reporting them in person but doing so over the phone should be enough and given I've already reported these two morons from yesterday, can I then go and do so (with video evidence) in person today?

I probably experience at least one person every fortnight I feel I HAVE to report and a few more that I would want to but don't want to be that guy who reports everyone cos I doubt they'd take me seriously if I do it too often. So I try not to

slowbike

I've had 2 occasions when I've had to report a crime (although nothing to do with cycling) - both times I went to the Police station and both times I was made to feel like a criminal ...

One of them was our car was hit whilst it was parked outside my sisters house (we were visiting) - they (the counter staff) wanted to know which of us was driving (er ... neither - the clue is in "parked") and wanted to see our driving licence & insurance!! FFS people ... wtf has our driving licences got to do with it? We weren't in the car - it was locked ...
The other was a simple bank card clone - they really weren't interested and we had to fight to get a crime number - once we had a crime number our bank (RBS) dealt with it - I assume through a team dedicated to bank fraud ..?

delete_my_account

Yeah, they made me feel like I was wasting their time and that I was being over dramatic about it all. The good thing about having video footage of it is that it can't be disputed so it's not like I'd report something and say they were a foot away when they passed at 50mph when in actual fact they were a two yards away at the speed limit.

Am I within my rights to post encounters with these morons on youtube?

wongataa

MichaelMLFC92 wrote:

Am I within my rights to post encounters with these morons on youtube?

Yes.

slowbike

wongataa wrote:

MichaelMLFC92 wrote:

Am I within my rights to post encounters with these morons on youtube?

Yes.

Yes - although you have to ask "to what end?"

Too much and you stand the chance of being labelled a vigilante rider who has nothing better to do than ride around waiting or even engineering close passes just to upload them and complain about driving standards.

IMHO, you
a) need to be sure that the incidents are of significant danger
b) ensure your riding standards exceed all others

diy

We do not have privacy laws in the UK preventing such footage from being posted publicly. You need to be careful however:

- do not post anything that defames someone. let your viewers judge for yourself
- any abusive language, threatening behavior or even ranting, could lead you to get arrested.
- obviously the other person may not like being made famous and may track you down to enlighten you of the problems you have caused him.

but above all - try to let your logical brain win in these situations, hard I know when fueled with adrenalin, but people make mistakes try to always avoid confrontation no matter how hard it is.

rc856

I'd go to the office. You may have been unlucky in getting a civilian operator on the phone.
If the driving was that bad, would your whole group not go down to the office to provide statements?

We usually have 2 or 3 cops on our rides. We have had some close passes but apart from us 'waving' at the drivers, we've been lucky to not have to report anything yet.

To Slowbike, ref your licence details etc. Just sounds like the details needed for a road crash report.
All parties details go on the form, form goes to the insurance companies who sort it out without either party needing to find out where the other one lives etc.

cougie

Post up on Youtube and ask what people think ? If they dont think its dangerous driving then neither will the police.

Bozman

A lot of folk seem a far too sensitive about cars that come close, if a cars clips you then you've got reason to moan but otherwise just get on with it because it's just part of cycling.

iron-clover

I've had to go report incidents twice over 3 years- once for a passenger thumping me from a moving car and once from a white van barging into my group on a quiet country road to the point I was rubbing shoulders with it.
First time because there were no injuries or other witnesses they couldn't really pursue it, but they would make a note of the incident on the vehicles file for future reference if it was involved in trouble again. That one was done using 101 over the phone, plus speaking to a road officer the next day when they called about it.

The second time they could do something about it due to the 4 other witnesses, and the 101 operator suggested going to the station in person as it was deemed more serious- the staff were very helpful and I filled out a report form for them and that was that. Unfortunately reasonable iterations of the plate we gave didn't get a match through the DVLA though, which meant the van had false plates on :shock:

Either way, if you've been directly endangered and have the plates and vehicle description it's worth giving 101 a call when you get home to see what they suggest, although I only personally do it when someone has deliberately tried to take me out rather than the regular careless driving we see.

delete_my_account

diy wrote:

We do not have privacy laws in the UK preventing such footage from being posted publicly. You need to be careful however:

- do not post anything that defames someone. let your viewers judge for yourself
- any abusive language, threatening behavior or even ranting, could lead you to get arrested.
- obviously the other person may not like being made famous and may track you down to enlighten you of the problems you have caused him.

but above all - try to let your logical brain win in these situations, hard I know when fueled with adrenalin, but people make mistakes try to always avoid confrontation no matter how hard it is.

Surely you can justify abusive language when someone else's actions are putting you in danger?

A lot of folk seem a far too sensitive about cars that come close, if a cars clips you then you've got reason to moan but otherwise just get on with it because it's just part of cycling

It is part of cycling but it shouldn't be. The highway code states that you are to overtake a bicycle with plenty of room like you would a car. Just because many people don't doesn't make it okay. And a close pass has to be very close before I bother to report the driver.

Post up on Youtube and ask what people think ? If they dont think its dangerous driving then neither will the police.

Was considering it but I am very very sweary in the clips and you can apparently be arrested for that...? I've e-mailed one to the van driver's company although not proud of my language

slowbike

RC856 wrote:

To Slowbike, ref your licence details etc. Just sounds like the details needed for a road crash report.
All parties details go on the form, form goes to the insurance companies who sort it out without either party needing to find out where the other one lives etc.

Hmm - the local station didn't help with that either - they wouldn't give me the insurance details of the third party and our insurance co said they couldn't help until they had those details. Eventually I managed to get a nice civilian who pointed me in the right direction and it turned out we had the same insurance co!!

I've also been approached by CID at my home (although I think it's more KPD*) - wanting to know where I was on specific date between certain times ... loads more questions about clothing, briefcase etc then 1/2hr later they produced CCTV images of their suspect (passing a dodgy CC in a phone shop) - really, it took no time at all to see that I wasn't their suspect - shoes wrong, trousers wrong, jacket wrong, no tan briefcase (one of their questions - I don't use one anyway) and the clincher - watch on the wrong wrist ... add to that, not sure I'd drive an MGB roadster into a busy town with CCTV if I was going to pass a dodgy credit card! Plus I wasn't in town long enough to get from where I parked to the shop and back (I was just getting some currency for a business trip)
*KPD = Kids Playing Detective

I know police generally get a bad rap on here - but IME it's usually true that they're not going to go out of their way to be helpful. Doesn't stop me being polite to the plod on the street though.

cougie

If I was passing dodgy CC's - I'd probably be smart enough to change my appearance slightly...

slowbike

cougie wrote:

If I was passing dodgy CC's - I'd probably be smart enough to change my appearance slightly...

I'd be smart enough not to drive a rather noticeable classic car in with the correct number plates and park within sight of CCTV ... and to change my appearance I'd have to carry a load of clothing too - which they should've seen from the CCTV of my car ...

They were fishing - plain fishing and whilst it was harmless it was a complete waste of their time and mine for something so blindingly obvious...

rc856

Aye mate, sounds right.
If driver A was feeling really aggrieved with driver B, wouldn't make sense to pass details over so they find their car keyed or something.
Report gets filled out, both parties get ref number, pass number to insurance company, insurance contact police for a copy of the report.
As for the other thing, you'd be surprised how obvious things might seem but supervisors/(just in case Police)insist on folk being spoken to so that they can be eliminated from enquiries.
There's always someone higher up wanting everything checked whereas the cops on the street are in the real world.

Don't be put off. It's within your rights to ask for the incident to be looked at. If you're not happy, ask to speak to a supervisor

StillGoing

MichaelMLFC92 wrote:

I probably experience at least one person every fortnight I feel I HAVE to report and a few more that I would want to but don't want to be that guy who reports everyone cos I doubt they'd take me seriously if I do it too often. So I try not to

You sound like you have become what is known as a caller of note. Someone who likes to call in and complain about everything they see. As soon as your number comes on the screen, there'll be a marker next to it showing "Caller of note" with history as to how many incidents you've reported and that in the eyes of the law, the incidents are so minor or lacking any evidence to confirm them, you've wasted a lot of police time.

If you're going to report something first consider, how important is the incident, considering the lack of police numbers these days and the inability to investigate everything reported, do you have witnesses or evidence to support your allegations, and are you just being a bit of a moaner. I don't know where you are in the country, but take a force like Thames Valley who receive around 27,500 calls each week. The force doesn't have that many staff let alone officers so investigating every single one of those calls would result in chaos.

slowbike

Country A road commute
Thought a car was being a bit over cautious this morning ... didn't overtake for ages (30 limit, double white line in the middle but I'm doing ~20mph ...) ... once the double white lines stopped he came past ... followed by a police car ... iirc it was the same police car that came past me yesterday (same driver?!) but a bit earlier on in the journey - on double white lines in the middle ...
Didn't worry me either time - they both/all gave me plenty of room ..

delete_my_account

philthy3 wrote:

You sound like you have become what is known as a caller of note. Someone who likes to call in and complain about everything they see. As soon as your number comes on the screen, there'll be a marker next to it showing "Caller of note" with history as to how many incidents you've reported and that in the eyes of the law, the incidents are so minor or lacking any evidence to confirm them, you've wasted a lot of police time.

If you're going to report something first consider, how important is the incident, considering the lack of police numbers these days and the inability to investigate everything reported, do you have witnesses or evidence to support your allegations, and are you just being a bit of a moaner. I don't know where you are in the country, but take a force like Thames Valley who receive around 27,500 calls each week. The force doesn't have that many staff let alone officers so investigating every single one of those calls would result in chaos.

If I complained about everything I saw I'd be reporting about five people every single day. If someone overtakes me too close I won't report them. If someone does something which means I have to take evasive action, they're being reported to the police. And this happens all the time. Mostly in Portsmouth.

About 3 times in the last week, drivers have looked straight at me approaching them and decided to pull out anyway, meaning I and the people with me had to either swerve around them or brake heavily.
The week before last, I was cycling down a bus lane and the car in the lane on my right was going the same speed as me, all of a sudden they swerved towards me, undertook the car in front and got back out of the bus lane. They were less than 6 inches away from me and I ended up almost hitting the railings on my left. Nothing to do with me at all, completely unavoidable on my part and absolutely awful driving. I don't see how anyone wouldn't have reported that for example.
Week before that I was in the primary position approaching a roundabout when a taxi steamed past me with about a foot of room with his horn on, to then stop at a red light which I (and presumably he) could see a while ago.

I'd say It's irresponsible not to report these people. Based on my encounters with them, it's only a matter of time before they kill someone.

As I said, I probably end up reporting someone every other week but only the worst of the encounters. For someone who cycles 20 miles a week, that's a hell of a lot, but given I ride about 200 miles a week which is 11 or 12 hours, most of which in a city full of people who either can't drive or don't care, then I don't think that's unreasonable. I also drive a lot around Portsmouth and have never reported anyone for anything that's happened when driving because it's so much more uncommon than when I'm cycling. People see cyclists and think they can crap all over them.

StillGoing

Yep; caller of note. :roll:

Colinthecop

Michael, out of interest, have you ever popped in to a station and asked for some updates on the people you have reported...?

Like, were they traced, were they spoken to, were they prosecuted... That sort of thing.

Rightly or wrongly, I can't help but feel it might be an eye opener for you and you'll realise that you're wasting your time...