Pub Talk - Who will retire with the better palmares?

tailwindhome

Sagan or Kwiatkowski?

Head to Head Records

ad_snow

I hope Kwiatkowski. He's a classy bike rider whereas sometimes Sagan can be a bit - 'classless'.

rick_chasey

To my amateur-trained eye, Kiwakowski's got more talent for 1 day races than Sagan.

Sagan's got a much better sprint which ultimately wins you more races.

I think what we saw with Boonen in 2005 is a bit what we are with Sagan. He was the first to develop, and then others from his age range (Cancellara et al) caught up. Same with Sagan.

iainf72

Sagan. He had a duff year but I suspect it'll just be a bump. Still won E3. Probably the distraction of an overly hot girlfriend

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Kwiatkowski now he's won a big race and nobody gives him any space.

frenchfighter

Sagan will come out next year and there will be fire in the hold in every race he wants to let loose. I wouldn't judge him based on this year. Kwiatek will not have an easy ride next year. Both great riders but I prefer Kwiatek.

According to Leferve:
"At 24 everything is yet to come. Sometimes I have the impression that at Sagan is already a bit over it, and that it has yet to begin for Kwiatkowski."
But I would take what comes out his mouth with a pinch of salt.

Head to head Kwiatek took out Sagan at Eroica and it is not like Sagan under-estimated his qualities (he has known him for a long time).

ozzzyosborn206

I think a lot of sagans 'duff year' is down to being so successful last year nobody rides with him or lets him get a gap, won't be surprised if same happens next year with Kwiat especially as he will stick out like a sore thumb in the rainbow stripes

joelsim

Kwia has a fantastic career ahead of him. Personally I think he should forget GC in the Grand Tours and go for the Classics and the Paris-Nice type of stage races. He hasn't got it in the high mountains, and I'm not sure he ever will. Hope I'm wrong as I really like the way he races.

joelsim

Double post

RichN95.

Sagan.

Ultimately there are more races available to him and he can rely on his sprint more.

And currently Kwiatkowski is supported by one of the best teams and Sagan by one of the worst.

ContrelaMontre

iainf72 wrote:

Sagan. He had a duff year but I suspect it'll just be a bump. Still won E3. Probably the distraction of an overly hot girlfriend

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Kwiatkowski now he's won a big race and nobody gives him any space.

At the moment I think Kwiatek, but it's still early days for both of them. It's not like he was allowed to breakaway on Sunday because he's a nobody. He took a risk on the dangerous corner by the dam and attacked from there. Skill and tactics which he then followed through on. The race was fully on and that was no gift.

Sagan is an awesome athlete, but he so often messes up tactically. Like MSR 2013 when he burned up so much energy riding on the front that he didn't have it at the finish. I have to admit I enjoy seeing Sagan finish second, but if he can start converting his 2nd places into victories he will end up with an awesome palmares. I'm looking forward to Michal vs Peter at MSR 2015. And then I'll get to see them in the flesh at RVV. It could be a good rivalry to watch unfold.

mm1

Kwia, who will win a monument next year (getting my PTP in early for Flanders).

Pross

Define 'better'. I think Kwia will have fewer wins but more top quality victories to his name. He is one of the only riders I can think of who could win pretty much any of the Classics (not sure about P-R) or be a contender for a GT podium though sadly in the modern era it will be an either / or I should think. Nibali is the only other rider I can think of with as much potential all round ability but he obviously concentrates on the GTs and Kwia has that added ability to win a sprint from a small group.

Sagan broke onto the scene with all guns blazing but has stagnated a bit. Early on I thought he might be able to place quite highly in GTs (not necessarily podiums but a solid top 20) as well as win stages but his climbing seems to have deteriorated since then.

Coach H

iainf72 wrote:

Probably the distraction of an overly hot girlfriend

Photo's or it didn't happen!!!

RichN95.

Coach H wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Probably the distraction of an overly hot girlfriend

Photo's or it didn't happen!!!

Meh. Whatever. I think Iain's getting over excited. She looks like Steffi Graf to me.

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

Coach H wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Probably the distraction of an overly hot girlfriend

Photo's or it didn't happen!!!

Meh. Whatever. I think Iain's getting over excited. She looks like Steffi Graf to me.

I base my opinion on what someone who's seen her in real life told me.

tailwindhome

I'm keeping Sagan ahead at the minute - but only just and based on quantity rather than quality

Kwiatkowski with only 11 wins but they include a Rainbow Jersey, Amstel Gold and a Strade Bianche

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.ph ... id2=140797

mfin

Is this is a pub conversation!? Sounds like a censored pub.

dish_dash

Didn't the Wiggins discussions conclude it was all about quality not quantity? In which case Kwiatkowski...

iainf72 wrote:

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Kwiatkowski now he's won a big race and nobody gives him any space.

Looks like it's Sagan not getting the space while Kwiatkowski seems to be able to position himself to still win...

milton50

In terms of ranking points Sagan will be ahead by a mile because he will end up with tonnes of podiums in the cobbled classics, Tour stage wins and a huge collection of chipper victories.

In terms of the quality of actual wins it will be closer. I'd still edge towards Sagan though simply because he has to win Flanders or Roubaix at some point and he'll probably have well over 10 Tour stage wins.

I prefer Kwia though. He could really blossom (great joke) into something very special.

takethehighroad

Slightly OT, but who's got the better palmares, Boonen or Cancellara?

Both quality, both quantity, but they've both excelled in different fields outside April

wallace_and_gromit

RichN95 wrote:

She looks like Steffi Graf to me.

I don't think she does, but it would be good (for Sagan) if she did. Tennis viewing hasn't been the same since the Feisty Fraulein retired, notwithstanding the physical attributes of Ana Ivanovic.

tailwindhome

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Slightly OT, but who's got the better palmares, Boonen or Cancellara?

Both quality, both quantity, but they've both excelled in different fields outside April

Let's go to the stats
http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.ph ... id2=140846

Boonen is marginally ahead.

Now, Is there anything in Cancellara's pile that Boonen would want? That Milan San Remo maybe.....but would he swap a Rainbow Jersey for it? Nah. Don't think so.

They both have lot of 'doubles' though