Castelli Alpha

marshall_a

can anyone compare the jersey with the castelli trasparante due? as this with a mix of baselayer and fawesome vest, saw me though most of last winter. I do run warm\overheat quite easily on the hills, so the alpha in principle does appeal.

bendertherobot

I ordered both from wiggle. Returned the trasparente as didn't feel it could offer the versatility oven the alpha

meanredspider

It's interesting that Castelli have picked up quite a bit of momentum recently - especially over Assos. I got swept up in the Gabba excitement and, whilst it's OK, I'm not sure it lives up to the hype. In particular, for me, I don't think it's as good as my old Assos Airjacks. It's been interesting reading this thread. I'm not clear from reading it what the Alpha brings to the party..

apreading

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not clear from reading it what the Alpha brings to the party..

The ability to separate the windproof layer from the insulating layer, so you can unzip one to cool down and breathe more if you want. But unlike trying to achieve the same outcome by having two separate garments, you dont end up with two backs making you too warm.

meanredspider

apreading wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not clear from reading it what the Alpha brings to the party..

The ability to separate the windproof layer from the insulating layer, so you can unzip one to cool down and breathe more if you want. But unlike trying to achieve the same outcome by having two separate garments, you dont end up with two backs making you too warm.

Ah OK - a bit like my 5-year-old Assos gilet with a windproof front and completely mesh back achieves.

apreading

kind of, but even better as the mesh adds a little bit to warmth. I think the back is nanoflex too, so water resistant. Oh and it doesnt flap around like an unfastened gilet when you open the front windstopper part.

To my mind, the jersey makes more sense than the jacket though as when you are wearing a full jacket it is probably too cold to want to unzip the windstopper part.

cedar404

When I purchased the Alpha jersey it was because I was curious about it + Wiggle were selling it for around £140. So it was purely a vanity purchase as I did not really need it. What I can say is that since getting it no other jersey/jacket I own has got a look in.

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

apreading wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not clear from reading it what the Alpha brings to the party..

The ability to separate the windproof layer from the insulating layer, so you can unzip one to cool down and breathe more if you want. But unlike trying to achieve the same outcome by having two separate garments, you dont end up with two backs making you too warm.

Ah OK - a bit like my 5-year-old Assos gilet with a windproof front and completely mesh back achieves.

Worn with what?

The Jacket is a zero degree bit of kit, arguably without a base layer.

In effect the inner zipped part is a tank top warm base layer. Made from lots of little holes so it's insulating. The outer is pure Gore soft-shell. But the sleeves are also lined (like an Assos Bonka). So, what you get is a cold and/or foul weather jacket without the need for a gilet outside. At 0 or below you might like to wear a light base layer in addition.

The purpose to the inner zip, for me, is less about undoing it but more about letting you get into the thing. By detaching an insulating layer from the main body of the jacket they've created more air pockets and more insulation.

The jersey is similar but lacks the soft-shell back, lined sleeves and the insulating layer is only to the front.

Better than an Airjack? Probably. It's all windstopper and it's much more waterproof. Considerably better? Not really.

But the Alpha jersey is considerably more useful than the equivalent Assos be that the Intermediate Evo/S7 or Tiburu.

letap73

Alpha jersey is considerably more useful than the equivalent Assos be that the Intermediate Evo/S7 or Tiburu.

I can see where Meanredspider is coming from, every year something new turns up, which "apparently" trumps everything before it, so we all go and buy it. However, this stuff is usually expensive and the other stuff gets sold for next to nothing on ebay. I have an Intermediate Evo which I have used at a max temp of 12C and have been comfortable in to a temperature of around 0C. Granted the evo is not designed to take a deluge, it has generally performed very well. Thus I am struggling to see how the Alpha could be considerably more useful than the evo for me personally.

bendertherobot

letap73 wrote:

Alpha jersey is considerably more useful than the equivalent Assos be that the Intermediate Evo/S7 or Tiburu.

I can see where Meanredspider is coming from, every year something new turns up, which "apparently" trumps everything before it, so we all go and buy it. However, this stuff is usually expensive and the other stuff gets sold for next to nothing on ebay. I have an Intermediate Evo which I have used at a max temp of 12C and have been comfortable in to a temperature of around 0C. Granted the evo is not designed to take a deluge, it has generally performed very well. Thus I am struggling to see how the Alpha could be considerably more useful than the evo for me personally.

Mainly because it can take a deluge. It's pretty much Gabba like/lite for that purpose. Of course, the back is not. But I generally find that my back remains dry.

The arms of the Evo are simple light material so you will feel the cold there. The Alpha is a shell.

Of course, the Alpha is a lot cheaper than the S7 as well.

I can see his point as well though. Someone said yesterday on Road.cc that cycling soft shells are "years behind" mountain hiking type ones. I think, arguably, the reverse is true. We've come to the natural progression of what a soft-shell is and are looking beyond it for the next technical innovation.

I don't think Assos have moved on from the 851 with the Bonka, though, again, the sleeves are better in the wet. But I do think Castelli have caught up to Assos by trying to make something other than a heavy windstopper based jacket.

letap73

Bender you really do know your stuff. How does the alpha jersey/jacket compare with the ASSOs Ij Habu?

bendertherobot

Now, that's a very good question!

I always found the habu to be excellent but, in some respects, a half way house. It's more or less a pure shell with not an awful lot of insulation.

I'd say that the Alpha jersey is as warm as the habu jacket but the alpha jacket considerably warmer.

That said, you can often find habu's on ebay for £130 or so at which price they're a steal.

Dunno about know my stuff mind, spend too much more like!

letap73

I know what you mean by spending too much - I am actually trying to put myself off from getting the alpha jersey/jacket - this thread is not helping too much!

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

apreading wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not clear from reading it what the Alpha brings to the party..

The ability to separate the windproof layer from the insulating layer, so you can unzip one to cool down and breathe more if you want. But unlike trying to achieve the same outcome by having two separate garments, you dont end up with two backs making you too warm.

Ah OK - a bit like my 5-year-old Assos gilet with a windproof front and completely mesh back achieves.

Worn with what?

The Jacket is a zero degree bit of kit, arguably without a base layer.

In effect the inner zipped part is a tank top warm base layer. Made from lots of little holes so it's insulating. The outer is pure Gore soft-shell. But the sleeves are also lined (like an Assos Bonka). So, what you get is a cold and/or foul weather jacket without the need for a gilet outside. At 0 or below you might like to wear a light base layer in addition.

The purpose to the inner zip, for me, is less about undoing it but more about letting you get into the thing. By detaching an insulating layer from the main body of the jacket they've created more air pockets and more insulation.

The jersey is similar but lacks the soft-shell back, lined sleeves and the insulating layer is only to the front.

Better than an Airjack? Probably. It's all windstopper and it's much more waterproof. Considerably better? Not really.

But the Alpha jersey is considerably more useful than the equivalent Assos be that the Intermediate Evo/S7 or Tiburu.

Well - worn with anything. The point I'm making is that if you want more wind protection on your chest, add something like the Assos gilet (the mesh is very open so adds no warmth). When you don't need it, stick it in your pocket. Part of my thinking is that I rarely need any additional chest protection (I only used the gilet in the Alps).

For really cold days (when you don't need protection from rain because it's too cold anyway) I have the Castelli Managgia - but it needs to be really cold else it's too warm. I agree that Assos have lost their ascendancy in the technical jacket stakes - the 851 Early Winter gloves were better than the new ones too (reminds me, I should buy a spare pair whilst I still can) and Castelli are doing better. I'm deeply unimpressed by Nanoflex though.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

[
Mainly because it can take a deluge. It's pretty much Gabba like/lite for that purpose.

I don't think either of my (almost new) Gabbas could take anything like a deluge (if you mean staying dry). I think it's way over-hyped from that point of view. It does stay warm when wet and some rain does bead off it.

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

apreading wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not clear from reading it what the Alpha brings to the party..

The ability to separate the windproof layer from the insulating layer, so you can unzip one to cool down and breathe more if you want. But unlike trying to achieve the same outcome by having two separate garments, you dont end up with two backs making you too warm.

Ah OK - a bit like my 5-year-old Assos gilet with a windproof front and completely mesh back achieves.

Worn with what?

The Jacket is a zero degree bit of kit, arguably without a base layer.

In effect the inner zipped part is a tank top warm base layer. Made from lots of little holes so it's insulating. The outer is pure Gore soft-shell. But the sleeves are also lined (like an Assos Bonka). So, what you get is a cold and/or foul weather jacket without the need for a gilet outside. At 0 or below you might like to wear a light base layer in addition.

The purpose to the inner zip, for me, is less about undoing it but more about letting you get into the thing. By detaching an insulating layer from the main body of the jacket they've created more air pockets and more insulation.

The jersey is similar but lacks the soft-shell back, lined sleeves and the insulating layer is only to the front.

Better than an Airjack? Probably. It's all windstopper and it's much more waterproof. Considerably better? Not really.

But the Alpha jersey is considerably more useful than the equivalent Assos be that the Intermediate Evo/S7 or Tiburu.

Well - worn with anything. The point I'm making is that if you want more wind protection on your chest, add something like the Assos gilet (the mesh is very open so adds no warmth). When you don't need it, stick it in your pocket. Part of my thinking is that I rarely need any additional chest protection (I only used the gilet in the Alps).

For really cold days (when you don't need protection from rain because it's too cold anyway) I have the Castelli Managgia - but it needs to be really cold else it's too warm. I agree that Assos have lost their ascendancy in the technical jacket stakes - the 851 Early Winter gloves were better than the new ones too (reminds me, I should buy a spare pair whilst I still can) and Castelli are doing better. I'm deeply unimpressed by Nanoflex though.

I hate having to stash stuff. So, for me, I just choose a jacket depending on the day. Have to say I did like the airblock gilet. But hated the collar.

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

[
Mainly because it can take a deluge. It's pretty much Gabba like/lite for that purpose.

I don't think either of my (almost new) Gabbas could take anything like a deluge (if you mean staying dry). I think it's way over-hyped from that point of view. It does stay warm when wet and some rain does bead off it.

I've never been wet in it. Merely damp in places. So, for me, it's always worked. But, because of the length of my commute I've now plumped for a Rapha hardshell because it's taped. I think that, if they taped the shoulders of the Gabba a la the Gore Xenon, it would stay even drier.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

I hate having to stash stuff. So, for me, I just choose a jacket depending on the day. Have to say I did like the airblock gilet. But hated the collar.

I agree - I hardly ever use the gilet: AD6 was a bit different though - if I wasn't climbing the mountain, I was descending it - a jacket would have been completely wrong.

bendertherobot wrote:

I've never been wet in it. Merely damp in places. So, for me, it's always worked. But, because of the length of my commute I've now plumped for a Rapha hardshell because it's taped. I think that, if they taped the shoulders of the Gabba a la the Gore Xenon, it would stay even drier.

I run pretty hot and it gets damp inside even when it's dry. In fact, a characteristic I've noticed is that my phone (in a sandwich bag) comes out of the back pocket damp (the bag). But, even the first time out in Scottish mizzle (dreich) weather, I got simply wet. It was no better (or worse) than my AirJack.

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

I run pretty hot and it gets damp inside even when it's dry. In fact, a characteristic I've noticed is that my phone (in a sandwich bag) comes out of the back pocket damp (the bag). But, even the first time out in Scottish mizzle (dreich) weather, I got simply wet. It was no better (or worse) than my AirJack.

Yeah, and I can see why one of the others would deffo suit better in those circumstances. You may be onto something regarding drizzle mind. I find that the Gabba works best in harder rain.

I may have mentioned this elsewhere but the DWR treatment on the nano flex bibs appears to work better than on the Gabba. No idea why.

meanredspider

I didn't think that Gabba used the same DWR as Nano flex. I must try ironing my Nanoflex bibs to see if that improves them (though the pad is poor)

nibby

How are you finding the Rapha Hardshell performs? I'm also thinking of the same for my long commutes and the obvious shi*** days when your committed open the door and find it pouring down ,, how does it breath ? and is it fully waterproof?

I'm still getting the Alpha for my cold day commutes and longer weekend rides etc.

bendertherobot wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

[
Mainly because it can take a deluge. It's pretty much Gabba like/lite for that purpose.

I don't think either of my (almost new) Gabbas could take anything like a deluge (if you mean staying dry). I think it's way over-hyped from that point of view. It does stay warm when wet and some rain does bead off it.

I've never been wet in it. Merely damp in places. So, for me, it's always worked. But, because of the length of my commute I've now plumped for a Rapha hardshell because it's taped. I think that, if they taped the shoulders of the Gabba a la the Gore Xenon, it would stay even drier.

bendertherobot

Dunno yet! Bought it this week after getting fed up of the truly biblical stuff. Dry ever since.

I suspect it will perform magnificently. I think it may be quite a warm jacket so breathability will be interesting but it does appear to be 100% water proof. Solid construction, excellent fit and great seam taping.

I think it will be warm but, for me, I thought that this is going to be a November to March biblical weather jacket and, on that basis, staying dry will be good.

nibby

can you keep us posted when you test it proper, same as you re horrible stuff, no fun at 6 am when it's cold and horizontal outside

bendertherobot

Will do. Though, of course, next week looks much much drier!

nibby

Cheers, yes sods law!! although it wont be far away I bet!!

amack

This is a useful thread. I bought the long sleeve Gabba 2 a few months ago with the intention of buying the Alpha for deep winter. Unfortunately I don't like the warm and wet feeling you get with the Gabba in heavy rain and had thought I'd get the Rapha rain jacket (to wear over a Gabba or Alpha) for those wet commute mornings when you just have to go.

I reckon I'd be way too warm wearing the Rain jacket over a Gabba but too cold with just merino, so the Hardshell is sitting in my Rapha basket as I reckon it would be perfect for November to March. So I'll sit tight and wait to see what Bender thinks

bendertherobot

Rain forecast Monday morning. Will report. Do t forget the wp% discount code

bendertherobot

20% I meant

apreading

wot 20%?

amack

bendertherobot wrote:

20% I meant

Someone has a 20% discount code? Anyone like to share?..........please