Best investment for winter fitness?

dilatory

I'm sat here with some money burning a hole in my pocket.

I'm going to start doing some local crits and road races next year, so want to spend the winter training.

At my disposal currently I have:

My main road bike, which I will retire over winter. (CAAD10 Ultegra)
A shitty road bike which I purchased in February second hand to see if I liked road bikes (Hah, I do).

As of right now the shitty road bike is hooked up to a turbo, which is connected to TrainerRoad. I've been using it a while and its seeing me some great improvements so far, I'm just using virtual power. Don't think it's accurate in real terms but as long as the number it gives for FTP test goes up every now and then it doesn't matter what the number is! Regardless what happens the shitty bike stays.

I am currently pondering two possible options, the first being the most likely...

1) Buy a cyclocross bike. Use this as a winter bike. Take part in the local Cyclocross League every Sunday.

Pros include bunch race experience. Invaluable high intensity effort every week (I find this with TT / Hill Climbs, the effort I put in with a number on my back seems greater than usual). A bike perfectly suited to riding outside through winter, if it's super windy I can go off-road and just have fun, in club rides I'll have discs etc...

Cons are that come summertime I probably wont really use it much aside from sometimes wanting to mix it up and go on fire roads for a bimble. Unless I get another bike come the start of the race season, I'll be entering 4th Cat Crits on my lovely bike! (Tho that's a long time away and saving again wont really be an issue...)

2) Buy another road bike. Cheaper, second hand. Something I am less precious about. Use it as the winter bike.

Pros are that I wont mind racing on it come next year, as I wont mind if I gets wrecked. It'll give me that winter training option in a similar geometry.

Cons are that my race experience starts with my first 4th Cat race and I end up with a bike I enjoy riding less so will only use for races unless by some miracle in a couple of years I manage to crawl out of even 3rd Cat.

The third outside choice is that I buy a P2M Power Meter for my main bike. Stick that on the turbo. Ride the shit bike through winter and race on the nice bike. But that's not really serious as other than now having a power meter I achieve little else. Power meters aren't that great... are they?

Omar Little

Depends where you live but if you are after some good training with bunch racing experience and live near an indoor velodrome then get a track bike, get accredited and join a track league.

dilatory

Sadly the nearest indoor velodrome is a 2 hour drive away. Would love to though, I think a couple of trips a year would be the realistic max.

DKay

Why not buy some good winter riding gear, some Crud Road Racer mudguards, sturdier tyres and keep on riding outdoors. That's what I'm doing.

dilatory

I'll skip your financial advise and move into your advise in something you presumably are well versed in if you don't mind.

I'd be interested what use a coach would be to someone with no power meter wanting to racing 4th Cat next season. Surely sticking to the TrainerRoad plans is much more beneficial to my fitness and pockets? I know the CAAD10 is fine in the rain. It's been soaked a few times. I do however lament the 3 BB30 services I've done over its 4,000 mile life span which will only worsen in constant rain.

Incidentally, do you have a contact for these training methods by the truckload? I might invest in one truckload to begin with, see how I get on.

DeVlaeminck

Cross wont give you bunch experience - some say it improves your bike handling but while you are racing against other people it's a different experience to a lower cat road bunch. For a start you accept falling off in cross - I wouldn't want to be falling off too much in road races.

MadAs always gives good advice but on this occasion I'd say a winter bike would be a fair investment - something cheap with mudguards - don't race it though race on your Caad10 and if you do crash most likely the worst damage will be a few scrapes or maybe a damaged shifter which you can pick up off ebay second hand.

I've never had coaching so can't comment - I tend to be a natural cynic about these things but then I think I enjoy the craic of the local group training rides too much to want to do coach directed sessions instead even if I'd get better results if I did.

jgsi

I'll hold back any comments on the CAAD10 being a rider of... perfectly equipped for road racing / and when winterized, winter training. I live just 50 minutes drive from an outdoor track.. cyclepark,, the weekly trip for 90 minutes of focussed hard riding at pace also brought on the handling skills /awareness you'll need for racing.
Saying that, got away with last winter due to lack of snow and ice.
Then you top up with the cycelcross.
Fall back is a turbo and a training plan.. start as soon as.

MiddleRinger

Coaching or power meter.

bahzob

First thing I'd suggest is get hold of a pen and paper and draw up a calendar from now to end > 2015.

Make a note of the key achievements you would like to accomplish when along this time line. This will help sort out your mind in terms of priorities and help make an informed decision.

markhewitt1978

Whack some cruds on your road bike and it'll be fine for the winter, except in the worst of the snow and ice - which we didn't really get last winter.

But if you really want to and can afford it then why not get a CX bike? Just think of it as it's own thing and not training for the summer etc.

Mikey23

Plus one for mudguards...

wavefront

bahzob wrote:

First thing I'd suggest is get hold of a pen and paper and draw up a calendar from now to end > 2015.

Make a note of the key achievements you would like to accomplish when along this time line. This will help sort out your mind in terms of priorities and help make an informed decision.

I know it's not really an answer to your purchasing problems but this bit of advice is free and the best place to start. To answer your questions, you should also ask how motivated you are? New bikes may motivate you now, but in the depths of winter will you actually be out on the roads at 6am before work to get some training in, or even on the cross bike? If you're motivated then some kit may be worthwhile, but if you're not, a coach could be good call if you have ambitions for next year.

FWIW I'm signing up for coaching, but I have pretty ambitious targets for next year and I'm taking things far too seriously these days

shockedsoshocked

In my opinion you already have the best training tool for the bike whatever the season, a turbo trainer. Trainer Road is also excellent and i'd recommend Training and Racing with a Powermeter by Allen and Coggan.

With less than a year under your belt on the road bike i'd say there's plenty of improvement left in you yet without resorting to a coach quite yet. Maybe get some mudguards on your bike and join a local racing club over the winter. You should be able to pick up plenty of training pointers and work on your riding skills in close proximity to others.

dwanes

Get some of the best winter clothing, some of the best lights, try and ride like its summer.
Choose hilly routes during winter, it keeps you warm.

At your stage in your 'cycling career' forget power meters. what on earth are they going to do for you? They arent going to make you any faster or stronger.

Regarding your CAAD, if the BB30 is that bad, and you have money burning a hole, then get a new bike you can ride all year round.

adamtaylor

How about joining a cycling club and going out on their chain gangs, if you're not already? It would be better bunch riding experience than cross racing.

dilatory

Thanks for the advice all. You've given me lots to think on!

I should point out that motivation is no issue for me, just over a year ago I was 18st and sedantry. Cycling all through winter (6 days a week, rain or shine) has seen me drop to 11.9 where I am today (still a bit more to go). My average speeds were 10/11mph over short <10mi rides then and at the moment my week night rolling rides average around 18-19mph (with the odd 20mph average on a still day) for 30-40miles and 17-18mph for 100ish mile rides (my first 90 mile ride early in April I barely held a 15mph average). Nothing exceptionally hilly. And I know averages are not the be all and end all, but it's mostly all I've got to go on and I'm riding the same roads each time.

I'm hooked on cycling, it changed my life and I want to compete next year. There's no new bike syndrome, CAAD10 is 4,000 miles in (got it first week of June) and I'm ready to work hard to progress.

I think a power meter and/or a coach would be a bit ambitious for me at my current stage. I am only looking to compete in 4th Cat races. It'd be nice to get out into 3rd by the end of the year, but I don't need a coach to tell me how. I've also got the possibility of borrowing a TT bike for the season so I'd like to include a lot of those.

I'm going to pick up a copy of the Cyclist Training Bible as suggested and sit down and plan out my winter / summer goals. I'm surprised that most consider CX not really a worthwhile winter goal for summer training, so have taken that on board and will re-think whether or not it's necessary or whether I'd just like to have a 2nd hand CX bike for something different when I want to pedal outside / ride with friends and not worry about the deepest of deep cleans for my number 1 bike.

I do also currently ride with a club, there's the occasional chaingang which is fine, I've no issues holding a wheel or working in close proximity but through doing some small track day races I do panic when taking tight corners 2/3 abreast which is something I need to work on and was hoping CX races might have helped with the nerves for that. I also notice that in critical moments I lose a lot of momentum in the tighter turns which sees me sprinting to hold a wheel and loses me a lot of effort - but those are things I know and can work on.

Perhaps after all this, the wisest investment would be a cheap rear wheel with a turbo tyre on for my CAAD10 and save the money for replacing the bits that will wear out faster over the winter?

simon_e

dilatory wrote:

I'm going to pick up a copy of the Cyclist Training Bible as suggested and sit down and plan out my winter / summer goals.

I found it a good read, there's plenty in it to get you thinking and planning.

dilatory wrote:

I'm surprised that most consider CX not really a worthwhile winter goal for summer training

As a relative newcomer I would recommend you focus more on base miles through the off-season, working on things like cadence, pedalling action and position. Also, you don't have to batter yourself weekly in all weathers to benefit. I think that regular hard intervals through the winter are more useful when you already have good fitness built over several seasons.

There's no reason you can't do time trials on a road bike, with or without tri-bars. You might not be competitive with the boys with all the gear but it's essentially a race against yourself anyway, and great way of seeing if your training is progressing.

dilatory wrote:

Perhaps after all this, the wisest investment would be a cheap rear wheel with a turbo tyre on for my CAAD10 and save the money for replacing the bits that will wear out faster over the winter?

:idea: Sounds like a very good move.

ric/rstsport

Coaching can definitely help improve fitness and many coaches work with riders without power meters (we work with both types). Not everyone wants to be 'constrained' by data and not everyone wants to adorn their bike with one (plus they're quite pricey). It'll also help to have a good group of training mates, because we've all experienced the CBA days (usually when it's cold, wet, and staying in bed looks easier).

iron_duke

As an aside very impressive effort and willpower to shift that weight! Kudos

dilatory

Thanks! It was hard work and not fun all the time but now I am different person. I am looking forward to a winter of proper training and racing next year.

wavefront

Agreed! If you've shaped up like that in such a small time frame, then I tip my cap to you. Well done! 4000 miles since June is going some. Think you'll have have no problem achieving your goals

mm1

A good coach will do more than help you improve your fitness, they will spot problems with your position or technique which, with the best will in the world, would be impossible for you to identify for yourself. The advice of a good coach can stop you from making mistakes that would harm your fitness or your health and can provide the motivation and support to overcome obstacles and sustain your enthusiasm. Someone with the right background and experience will save you lots of time and effort from learning things the hard way, and may help with stuff that you might never pick up on clubruns or in 4th cat races.

LegendLust

mm1 wrote:

A good coach will do more than help you improve your fitness, they will spot problems with your position or technique which, with the best will in the world, would be impossible for you to identify for yourself. The advice of a good coach can stop you from making mistakes that would harm your fitness or your health and can provide the motivation and support to overcome obstacles and sustain your enthusiasm. Someone with the right background and experience will save you lots of time and effort from learning things the hard way, and may help with stuff that you might never pick up on clubruns or in 4th cat races.

Getting a coach no matter what your level or goals is money well spent

DeVlaeminck

There is nothing magical about coaches, you are paying for expert opinion but to say it's impossible to spot flaws in your own technique or position is just wrong. Sure a good coach may improve your training - by how much depends how poor your training was beforehand. The vast majority of amateurs are not coached and there are plenty of people winning races without - seems a bit OTT getting one to race at 4th cat level.

dilatory

I appreciate that coaches are great and would no doubt improve my cycling but it just seems a little bit much at the moment. I think the nearest coach to me wouldn't see me ride too much either, it'd mostly be analyzing data, giving me a plan and feedback. I don't have a power meter, just a HRM. I think between Trainer Road and the Cyclist's Bible book I should be able to hash out a decent plan over the winter. I was more curious as to whether people think a winter of cross racing is a good supplement for fitness / bit of bunch sprint experience at the start.

crikey

Best investment would be mudguards, overshoes, waterproof and then riding with the local racers through the winter.
Cross is good but you'll not get any bunch sprinting or even bunch riding experience; it sounds like you've never seen a cross race.
You'll get race skills from chaingangs and from fast winter rides, plus pick up lots of the tips that you'll need to actually race with other people; you'll not get any of those from books, plans or coaches.

dilatory

crikey wrote:

Best investment would be mudguards, overshoes, waterproof and then riding with the local racers through the winter.
Cross is good but you'll not get any bunch sprinting or even bunch riding experience; it sounds like you've never seen a cross race.
You'll get race skills from chaingangs and from fast winter rides, plus pick up lots of the tips that you'll need to actually race with other people; you'll not get any of those from books, plans or coaches.

I said the bunch sprint at the start, not a sprint finish. Like I see in every cross race. Even the local ones I've been to spectate, and riding around people who are a bit elbow-y and so on, but I get your point!

My question was not "how best to get tips to race" but more a question of raising fitness. I do chain gangs when available (I live in the arse end of nowhere and regular chain gangs are a rarity). I might try and arrange something myself. The books and plans will help my fitness out ready for when I race, which is where I'll learn to race! I know my cornering sucks and I've already got plans to work on that over winter, thinking of marking out a course in a covered car park or something.

crikey

The books and plans will help my fitness out ready for when I race, which is where I'll learn to race! I know my cornering sucks and I've already got plans to work on that over winter, thinking of marking out a course in a covered car park or something

.

Ummm... I think that if you rely on the books and plans you will become very quickly acquainted with the sight of the bunch riding away from you, and marking out a course in a covered car park is wasting your time.

You need to ride with other, faster, more experienced riders and you need to know the basics of bunch riding and fast bunch riding before you even think about pinning a number on.

dilatory

Thanks for your concern, though opportunities are slim. I do ride chain gangs with faster riders when possible. I have been riding with a club for quite a few months and have "the basics" of bunch riding dialed in. I've also been attending some race training which has included lots of race skills and short races.

I'd be interested to know why you think spending time getting my confidence in cornering up is a waste of time, when in the aforementioned practice races was able to about hang with them but lost a lot on the corners and ended up sprinting back up which was destroying my gas tank.

You seem to be bogged down by a hatred of books and are repeatedly missing the point; I'm not asking for how to improve at racing.

crikey

I have no problem with books or plans; I have a shelf full here. I've followed each and everyone to the letter, and been roundly and resolutely hammered. I got good by riding the kind of training rides that the racers were doing, learning how to hang on, learning the skills that you need to race.

You are wasting valuable time by messing about trying to teach yourself cornering in a non-race situation, and the whole point of investing time through the winter is aimed at producing fitness that will enable you to race next year.

but lost a lot on the corners and ended up sprinting back up which was destroying my gas tank

That's not a lack of cornering skill, that's a lack of racing skill.

Whatever, you've asked for advice and you don't seem to want any advice that conflicts with what you've already decided, so carry on.

(In a couple of years, if you are still racing, you'll look back and agree with me...)

dilatory

crikey wrote:

I have no problem with books or plans; I have a shelf full here. I've followed each and everyone to the letter, and been roundly and resolutely hammered. I got good by riding the kind of training rides that the racers were doing, learning how to hang on, learning the skills that you need to race.

You are wasting valuable time by messing about trying to teach yourself cornering in a non-race situation, and the whole point of investing time through the winter is aimed at producing fitness that will enable you to race next year.

but lost a lot on the corners and ended up sprinting back up which was destroying my gas tank

That's not a lack of cornering skill, that's a lack of racing skill.

Whatever, you've asked for advice and you don't seem to want any advice that conflicts with what you've already decided, so carry on.

(In a couple of years, if you are still racing, you'll look back and agree with me...)

That's exactly what I was asking for. I am happy to take advice and would absolutely love to join a chain gang with local racers; but guess what? Like I keep saying, I don't have that option. You seem incapable of reading and just keep saying the same things over and over. Yes I know I'll get pissed out of the back in my first races. I asked whether a cross bike and some cross racing or a winter bike and just keeping on was my best option for winter. Not whether or not you thought I should be racing with my current experience.

I agree with mostly everything you say and I do ride with local racers whenever I can, the problem being everyone in my local club at any sort of level (or even any club within a 20 mile radius) focus on time trials. I do however fail to comprehend why you struggle with the concept of getting more comfortable with fast tight corners (and pedaling through them too) outside of a race is redundant? I am not comfortable diving into fast corners. Surely if I can get more comfortable doing it on my own it's going to be much much safer when I have to get to grips doing it in a race?

You seem to take a black and white approach to the problem. I don't need to wait a few years to know that the best thing for me to be doing is riding around fast and tight with fast racers; but I don't have that option. To put it into perspective for you, I will be driving nearly an hour and a half for these crits. That's the closest.