Zone 2 Question

Cluelessbutkeen

I have seen a lot of people talking about the different zones in training, with quite a few saying that a fair proportion of miles should be in Zone 2. So I guess I have two questions:

1) Am I riding enough to justify spending some of my rides in Zone 2?

I usually ride between 50 - 70 miles a week. One 30-mile ride and two 20-mile rides would be typical. So far I have tended to ride at the highest pace that I think I can sustain over the distance. Probably what might be called Zone 3 - not into the red, but hard work and out of breath on the harder stretches and climbs.

2) What should riding in Zone 2 feel like?

I tried a 25-mile ride at what I thought was Zone 2 today. So a good steady pace, but never out of breath (would have easily been able to hold a conversation if I had been cycling with a friend).

But when I checked strava I saw my average speed for the ride was only 1 mph slower than my usual speed. Which either means I was putting in too much effort today (didn't really feel like it), or perhaps that I'm not actually putting as much effort as I think I am into my usual rides. That said, even when I really go for it, I'm still pretty one-paced.

Today's ride (steady) = 14 mph
Typical ride (effort) = 15 mph
Going for it ride = 16 mph

BTW I realise that wearing a HRM would be the easiest way to work out what zones I am actually riding in but money is impossibly tight and it's just not an option at the moment.

My profile:

Bike - Ridgeback Velocity (hybrid)
Age - 45
Riding history : Started in earnest about 18 months ago.
Training Goal - Endurance. I would like to be able to ride 100 miles relatively comfortably and ultimately would like to be able to ride 200 miles in a single day as a one-off challenge. Speed is only an issue in so much as the higher my average speed, the more distance I can cover.

imposter2.0

Zones mean different things to different people. I only use three zones to train with, so my zone 2 will be a lot different to someone else who may use 5 zones, if you get my meaning. Referring to 'zone 2' to without being specific makes it difficult to answer...

Cluelessbutkeen

Understood. I guess I understood Zone 2 to mean riding at a steady pace but without getting out of breath or raising your heart rate too much. Easing back on climbs to trying and maintain a constant and sustainable amount of effort throughout. In that context, zone 3 might be 'tempo' (fast but sustainble) and zone 4 might be flat out (maintainable for 30 minutes or so).

Putting the actual zones to one side, I guess the nub of the question is:

If I am only riding 50-70 miles a week, is there actually any benefit to riding at a comfortable pace for half of those rides, or does that easier level of effort only work in the context of a heavier training schedule?

imposter2.0

As ever, it depends what you are trying to achieve as an end goal.

wavefront

I think he said he's trying to achieve a goal of riding 100 miles....

If your goal is indeed endurance (100 miles), then forget speeds and zones for now - I would just continue to ride easy (with some harder efforts from time to time if you fancy to provide variety - it won't hurt), and just build up the mileage. It's getting the longer miles in your legs which is important just now, and to achieve that you need to take it more steadily than your doing on your shorter rides. You'll be up to 60/70/80/90 miles in no time.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't put down some power occasionally or vary things a bit, but if the goal
is endurance then just make sure you build up to it steadily. You'll find it will come.

And for your interest, what does L2 feel like? it is an all day pace, where your legs don't even begin to burn. They'll likely tire toward the end of a longer ride but you shouldn't feel like your having to stomp on the pedals or push. Breathing will be easy with perhaps a few deeper breaths when nearer the top of the zone, but exactly as you said - you should be able to converse pretty easily.

Hope this helps and good luck.

diy

I'll start on the basis that we are talking about the Endurance Zone. This is arguably the point where we can get the most efficiency from our effort. If you know your max HR and your resting HR there are plenty of tools on the web which will help you work out your zones. There is also a wide range of views on the levels for each zone. For example my zone 2 is between 105 and 145 depending on the method. I'll say now that at 145, I'm way above zone 2. For me its around 120bpm +-10, note I have a fairly low resting HR.

Training in your endurance zone will help you build efficiency but at the expense of fast gains, so as with most things you need a mix. If you are an experienced endurance cyclist having done it for many years then you have less need to develop the muscles and your capacity to fuel them. However, if you are nearer the start of your journey then you need to focus on things that will give you quick wins.

So as others have said - its about looking at your weaknesses and developing them. If you are powerful short distance rider who runs out of steam then this along with eating habits which improve your ability operate in the fat burning phase, will help. However, if you just need to develop your overall ability then I wouldn't spend too much time doing big distances in Zone 2. Or if I did, I'd want to be on the upper end of the zone to avoid - Junk miles.

bahzob

As the above replies indicate there is a lot of confusion about Zone 2.

This article explains a bit more http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/how-proper-training-affects-lactate-threshold-heart-rate?feed=70c86158-aad7-4b07-8cc3-7c383b9bd61b&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+trainingpeaks%2FXAlX+%28TrainingPeaks+Blog%29

It starts by providing some fairly clear guidance.

"By most standards, Zone 2 heart rate is at 80% to 90% of lactate threshold. Often overlooked, Zone 2 is actually a very important training zone. In fact, I have my East African runners training in that zone for a fair amount of their workload. We call them either “moderate” or “slow tempo” runs. These aren't “junk” miles, but instead a critical part of every training cycle."

The important thing is that to be done properly Zone 2 will feel quite hard if done, as it should be, at a constant pace for long duration. As an example my LTHR is 166 so Zone 2 is 133-149bpm. To hit this I need maintain around 200-225W which equates to 18-20mph average depending on terrain. So not at all slow and utterly different from an "easy" ride. I used to think I was doing Zone 2 on club runs. The figures told a different story, a 4 hour ride averaging only c. 120bpm and 150W means that, while fun, it was pretty useless for training.

The simplest indicator of being in Zone 2 is breathing. Breathing serves 2 purposes, it takes oxygen in and it gets rid of CO2. The latter is in fact more important, especially sub threshold. When you hit Zone 2 you will start producing significantly more CO2. The brain detects this and prompts the reflex to start breathing through the mouth if you are not already doing so. So the simplest way to ensure that you are in zone 2 while riding a steady pace is close your mouth and try breathing just via the nose. If you can do this then you need to go harder.

This also provides a handy fitness test. The more time you spend training, including Zone2, then the faster you should be able to ride comfortably while breathing with mouth closed.

Cluelessbutkeen

Thanks – that is all really useful feedback. I think I will continue with the Zone 2 rides but make them longer, to make them more testing and more helpful for endurance.

So I will aim to start adding in some longer rides (4, 5 hours) towards the top of zone 2 but keep the shorter rides a bit pacier*


*pacier according to how I feel, even if not according to strava

wavefront

Out of interest Bahzob, how did you get a L2 zone of 133-149bpm? For example if you were to use Coggan's zones and using a LTHR of 166 then your range should be 115 - 138bpm, a bit easier than the numbers you've given? Or have you set it by working with power?

(This perfectly illustrates the confusion there is relating to zones etc......and it might be my confusion or misunderstanding here )

Agree with most of what you said tho, for the OP, I think L2 work would be very beneficial to help acheive his goal of a century.

daxplusplus

bahzob wrote:

.. The important thing is that to be done properly Zone 2 will feel quite hard if done, as it should be, at a constant pace for long duration.
..

So the simplest way to ensure that you are in zone 2 while riding a steady pace is close your mouth and try breathing just via the nose. If you can do this then you need to go harder.

..

Excellent post (in that it aligns with my experience and I love the simple check with the breathing).

Talking about this in another area of the forums and I was saying that weirdly I feel more tired after a long session of Zone 2 than a free format club run (where I get close to my max HR but also have lots of recovery time). I was beginning to doubt whether my zones are setup correctly.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Some good posts here. It used to drive me mad on my main Saturday a.m. club runs when everyone seemed to want to hammer the hills and then take it really easy on the flats / downs.
That's OK every once in a while to mix it up, but IMO it should be the other way around, to maintain a good steady effort that will leave you pretty knackered at the end even though at no point have you gone above threshold.
On my weekly long run (and most of us only have time or chance for one 4 or 5-hour ride), I would normally try to maintain a fairly even effort around 70-75% of max heart rate (about 140-150bpm for me), i.e., taking the hills purposefully quite easy and riding quite hard on the flats and downs.
Occasionally I'll ride it a bit harder and faster but that will take it out of me and will take longer to recover from.

daxplusplus

Fortunately I have loads of opportunities to cycle the rest of the week so I treat the Sunday club runs as time to have fun and enjoy the company - mentally refreshing and time where we can all practice group riding skills\tactics\sprinting\climbing etc but absolutely no zone training.

Jules Winnfield

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

Fortunately I have loads of opportunities to cycle the rest of the week so I treat the Sunday club runs as time to have fun and enjoy the company - mentally refreshing and time where we can all practice group riding skills\tactics\sprinting\climbing etc but absolutely no zone training.

I would even expand on this post by saying it's totally pointless trying to do zonal training when you are riding with more than +1. I've tried to do it myself yet you feel that you are slowing your riding partner down so you end up pushing and going at their pace and your own training goes out the window.

Bar Shaker

Can someone explain to me what is going on with my body on a Zone 2 ride and why I will benefit?

It just feels like a cop out ride.

bahzob

Bar Shaker wrote:

Can someone explain to me what is going on with my body on a Zone 2 ride and why I will benefit?

It just feels like a cop out ride.

Scroll up, read my post and check the associated link.

bahzob

wavefront wrote:

Out of interest Bahzob, how did you get a L2 zone of 133-149bpm? For example if you were to use Coggan's zones and using a LTHR of 166 then your range should be 115 - 138bpm, a bit easier than the numbers you've given? Or have you set it by working with power?

(This perfectly illustrates the confusion there is relating to zones etc......and it might be my confusion or misunderstanding here )

Agree with most of what you said tho, for the OP, I think L2 work would be very beneficial to help acheive his goal of a century.

I used the 80-90% of LTHR quoted in link. I know this is for runners and therefore a little high for cycling but find this works well for me and corresponds closely to my RPE and breathing pattern, which is why, as I said, I think that breathing is such a good measure since it signals the bodies natural response to tipping over from recovery into an active training zone where it needs to do more.

If I am spending time training in Zone 2 I prefer to work towards the higher end anyway. Going too hard won't compromise the benefits, there's still a big and clearly noticeable gap before the next major zone: sweetspot. On the other hand going too easy is pretty much a waste of time as your example shows. 115bpm is just a joke, it's far to easy and trying to maintain that for hours would bore me stiff. As said only would expect to see that during non-training fun rides.

Bar Shaker

Thanks Bob. I had read it but didn't really do so with time to take it in... my mistake.

It now makes more sense and I will try it.

diy

If you are going to do it properly you really should do a threshold test. The whole idea is getting speed improvements while staying in a zone, not backing off until you are in a given zone. Otherwise its not going to do much for your endurance ability. You are trying to ride as fast as you can as efficiently as you can by keeping yourself in the given zone.

There are other ways to improve your threshold which are more efficient (time spent training vs result) than training in a given zone and the benefits you'll get depend on where you are in your overall fitness anyway. There are also many other ways to increase endurance for longer rides (e.g. zero cal training) which will get your body used to working hard while burning fat.