Distance?

pomster

Hi guys just a quick one!
I'm new obviously
Can you tell me what would be a good distance to start with
I started on monday past and i've been riding on the road on my MTB early every morning doing 5 miles a day and its take me around 45 mins.
Its now saturday morning and although i can feel it in my upper legs all day, not painfull more of an slight discomfort it is getting easier evrytime i go out (i'm working to a heartrate monitor by the way)
What would be a good starting distance and what would be the norm in progressing? ie targets
I'm 51, 5'10 and slim build if it makes a difference.

I just want to get some sort of fitness built up before hitting any trails

cheers!

Antm81

I find it easier to just get out and ride the trails I want to. If I need to stop for a breather I do. A lot depends on the terrain, I can feel the same after 40 miles on gentler trails as I do on 20 miles of harder more technical trails.

The Rookie

As a rule of thumb, offroad riding feels like about 2-3 times the distance of on road as you get more rolling resistance and have to work harder, of course that means proper off road not just packed gravel trails.

To be honest 5 miles in 45 mins on road is a bit slow, on my MTB I'd expect to do that at an easy pace in less than 30 mins, I'm only 3 years younger than you, similar height and medium build (circa 80Kg)

On road I'd be looking at 30 miles as an easy starting distance, the key to riding on road is choosing a consistent effort you can maintain (like jogging versus sprinting) with good leg speed (should be 80-90 rpm, the natural tendency is to turn the legs too slowly (40-50rpm), that wears you out much faster although it doesn't feel like it initially) and use the gears properly so as to maintain leg speed and load, uphill should wear you out no more than on the flat, you are just going slower.

Off road (proper rough trails) then 8-10 miles is a good starting distance, same rules apply as above with respect to effort and leg speed, using your gears properly.

VERY important to get your saddle at the right height for efficient pedalling, your knee should be almost straight with the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, saddle any lower can hurt your knees and make your upper thighs do to much work, on rougher terrain when you are out the saddle more you may want the saddle a little lower to be out of the way, but no more than an inch lower unless it's really really rough!

kajjal

My first off road ride was a few miles and I found it enjoyable but harder going than road riding. I would just try a few shorter off road rides locally if you can , of a few miles. If you have trail centres nearby try the green and blue routes until you build up your fitness and bike handling.

Proper XC riding like the Peak District , Long Mynd, etc. needs more base fitness as there is a lot more hill climbing and rougher trails. Just keep riding and don't forget the rest days you don't ride on allow your body to recover and gain fitness.

cooldad

Just ride where you want, when you want, how you want.

pomster

The Rookie wrote:

As a rule of thumb, offroad riding feels like about 2-3 times the distance of on road as you get more rolling resistance and have to work harder, of course that means proper off road not just packed gravel trails.

To be honest 5 miles in 45 mins on road is a bit slow, on my MTB I'd expect to do that at an easy pace in less than 30 mins, I'm only 3 years younger than you, similar height and medium build (circa 80Kg)

On road I'd be looking at 30 miles as an easy starting distance, the key to riding on road is choosing a consistent effort you can maintain (like jogging versus sprinting) with good leg speed (should be 80-90 rpm, the natural tendency is to turn the legs too slowly (40-50rpm), that wears you out much faster although it doesn't feel like it initially) and use the gears properly so as to maintain leg speed and load, uphill should wear you out no more than on the flat, you are just going slower.

Off road (proper rough trails) then 8-10 miles is a good starting distance, same rules apply as above with respect to effort and leg speed, using your gears properly.

VERY important to get your saddle at the right height for efficient pedalling, your knee should be almost straight with the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, saddle any lower can hurt your knees and make your upper thighs do to much work, on rougher terrain when you are out the saddle more you may want the saddle a little lower to be out of the way, but no more than an inch lower unless it's really really rough!

Wish i could do that, at the mo i'm knackered walking up the stairs at home. hence why i'm building it up slowly.
I dont want to be one of these people who go stupid then end up packing it all in after a few weeks

Chunkers1980

They are people who just don't like cycling a bike. If you don't like it you won't do it... It's quite simple and like everything in life bar paid work I suppose.

rockmonkeysc

Just do shortish rides as regularly as you can and as fitness improves you can increase the distance. The most important thing is keep it enjoyable or you will loose interest.

njee20

I'd disagree with The Rookie's conversion factor, the commonly quoted conversion, which I think is about right, is 1 mile on the road = 1km off road, so 1:0.62.

Cycling isn't like running, there's no inherent need to build up, you're very unlikely to get overuse injuries or anything like that. As long as you stay fuelled and hydrated you can just carry on as you want. No reason you couldn't go and do 20+ miles if you were so inclined.

No point in setting arbitrary targets, Rockmonkey's advice is sound.

frankspencer1979

There's a few roadies in my staff room at work and each Monday morning they all discuss how far they did at the weekend. They never ask if they had a good time. I find that a little sad.

CitizenLee

Just ride for as long as you feel comfortable, and remember to save some energy for the return journey. The more you do it the more you'll be able to push the distance. Riding with others can the miles fly by too.

Echoing Franks sentiment above, I wouldn't let distance be the main purpose of your rides though... do it for the fun, like exploring and stuff. Fitness will happen anyway.

I have to cycle 7 miles each way on the road to get to my local spot and I hate it. The extra miles are pain more than anything else, but as soon as my tyres hit dirt I get a second wind and am happy as a pig in poop

njee20

Think of it the other way around, those 14 miles are making you fitter for the off road stuff. It's all riding bikes.

CitizenLee

njee20 wrote:

Think of it the other way around, those 14 miles are making you fitter for the off road stuff. It's all riding bikes.

You're right, the road miles do count for something and I can feel the benefit of it so hate is maybe an exaggeration. The back 7 isn't that bad to be honest as it's an old paved railway line, but the first 7 to the forest is all gradually up hill along a busy main road. Would be a breeze on a road bike or commuter, but it's a slog on mine. It's worth it, but I much prefer the days when I get a lift and do the extra miles off road

larkim

pomster wrote:

H
I started on monday past and i've been riding on the road on my MTB early every morning doing 5 miles a day and its take me around 45 mins.

What would be a good starting distance and what would be the norm in progressing? ie targets
I'm 51, 5'10 and slim build if it makes a difference.

What's your limiting factor in how fast / far you are going? This is going to sound negative, but it isn't meant to, but 5 miles in 45 mins is literally slow jogging pace (9 minute miling in runners terms). You might be approximating (it might actually be 5.5 miles in 41 minutes), but for someone of a slim build that doesn't seem fast "enough", unless your fitness level is absolutely zero. At the end of those 5 miles, are you dead on your saddle, or are you just feeling lightly refreshed? What heart rate are you working to? Could you go faster if you really wanted to (e.g. imagine being chased by drugged up thugs wanting to nick your bike!) Are there any hills in that 5 miles?

In terms of speed, I reckon being able to maintain 10mph for 5 miles woud be something to aim for - so that would be 5 miles in 30 minutes. Put some bursts of energy into your current cycling (e.g. 30 seconds as hard as you can, followed by 90 seconds of slower cycling, then repeat etc etc). That will build fitness, alongside perhaps pootling out for a longer ride, not caring about speed - try an hour and half of constant cycling once a week. Similar methodology as runners us - interval training, long slow runs etc etc.

Matt

[Edit - just read your other thread about fitness advice and your health problems - puts things into more context. So my summary would be, find out what your limiting factor is for you in terms of speed / pace, and work on that. Ignore other people's speeds and targets, they don't have the same compromises to face that you have. Work on slow, incremental progression, and don't always expect to see instant results. You know your own body, don't bust it!!]

njee20

CitizenLee wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Think of it the other way around, those 14 miles are making you fitter for the off road stuff. It's all riding bikes.

The back 7 isn't that bad to be honest as it's an old paved railway line, but the first 7 to the forest is all gradually up hill along a busy main road. Would be a breeze on a road bike or commuter, but it's a slog on mine.

Why not ride out on the railway line?

CitizenLee

njee20 wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Think of it the other way around, those 14 miles are making you fitter for the off road stuff. It's all riding bikes.

The back 7 isn't that bad to be honest as it's an old paved railway line, but the first 7 to the forest is all gradually up hill along a busy main road. Would be a breeze on a road bike or commuter, but it's a slog on mine.

Why not ride out on the railway line?

The point of exit in the forest is on the other side of the hill from entry, so it just works best that way, plus I'd have to ride through the city centre and then the last section is a 1.3 mile steepish climb. The route is efficient as it can be, it's just me that isn't

The Rookie

Of course you could jack up the tyre pressures (40psi?) before leaving and then drop them to your offroad setting when you get there, that would make a fair amount of difference!

CitizenLee

I use around 35-38psi for everything anyway, and dial down forks / set shock to climb for the road

markhusbands

I cycle too work on my MTB only 4 miles one way,a mile of it is pure up hill and i average just under 20mins, way home about 4 mile in 15mins, and its 3 mile flat surface and 1 mile downhill obviously my fav bit of my commute. You just need to build your stamina up, helps if you have a speedometre, something to set a goal too.

Briggo

The Rookie wrote:

uphill should wear you out no more than on the flat, you are just going slower.

Depends on the gradient, your gearing and personal strength to turn the cranks, bit of a sweeping statement which isn't true on its own.

If the gradient is steep enough and your gearing isn't low enough you end up needing to apply more strength to the cranks to get up the hill at a speed to enable you to keep moving on the bike and if your personal strength/fitness isn't awesome you'll end up expending far more energy.

The Rookie

You are right, that statement was based on the likely bike the OP is riding with a normal triple crankset, if your gearing won't go low enough it will, but from the Op's description that is not going to be the case.

larkim

I think the normal tendency for non-pros is to put in a level of effort on the flat which keeps you going at a nice speed, and then to put more effort into the hills. You are undoubtedly doing more "work" going uphill (you are lifting your body and the bike against gravity, which is definitely additional to the level of work required to move along at a steady pace on the flat, assuming speed is the same across both.

My reading of this article - http://theclimbingcyclist.com/gradients ... er-climbs/ - is that the power required to cycle on the flat at 10km/h is 9W (for a road bike) but to maintain 10km/h on a 5% gradient would be 132W, a huge difference in power input requirements. Following that logic, if you are comfortable putting in 9W on the flat, and then come to address a hill, even if you slow down to an absolute crawl of 1km/s you'd still need to find an extra 3.39W (12.39W total) to go up the hill. Gearing doesn't come into it.

Or am I missing the point?

[Edit - this article makes a similar point with more realistic values - 20mph on the flat, 134 watts, 5mph on a 12% grade, 204 watts - http://www.blog.ultracycle.net/2010/05/ ... lculations - gravity is a big enemy!]

FishFish

The Rookie wrote:

I'm only 3 years younger than you,

How do you know what age he is?

njee20

I think the normal tendency for non-pros is to put in a level of effort on the flat which keeps you going at a nice speed, and then to put more effort into the hills.

Not just non-pros. Anyone can attack on the flat - you win races by attacking the climbs

[Edit - this article makes a similar point with more realistic values - 20mph on the flat, 134 watts, 5mph on a 12% grade, 204 watts - http://www.blog.ultracycle.net/2010/05/ ... lculations - gravity is a big enemy!]

That oversimplifies air resistance - you need more than 134w to sustain 20mph on the flat in real life, which narrows the gap. General point's there though.

Briggo

larkim wrote:

Gearing doesn't come into it.

It does, that's the point of gearing otherwise why do we have it.

But the fact is, to expend the same energy going uphill vs flat i.e. little effort you'd have to be spinning like a mofo and end up not going anywhere (stupidly slow speed) at all hence my comment about you're having to apply energy to move the cranks even in the lowest gear.

If you were in the highest gear on a flat and then tried to do the same on a good gradient you'd either be off your seat stomping the pedals and applying lots of energy or fail to do that entirely and fall off.

Antm81

FishFish wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

I'm only 3 years younger than you,

How do you know what age he is?

It's in the first post :roll:

Bishbosh10

I find off road it is not about how far as much as it is about how much climbing you have to do. The condition of the trails can also make a big difference.

The Rookie

larkim wrote:

IGearing doesn't come into it.

Or am I missing the point?

Yes, to go at a different road speed (due to gradients) efficiently you use the gears so that your legs are still going at the right speed and producing the right torque to be efficient.

larkim

Yes, but no matter what gear you are in it takes the same amount of power to move you and a bike distance X at speed Y on a gradient of Z.

However, in the real world humans produce power efficiently in a narrow cadence band so riders adjust their gearing so that they maintain a cadence which tries to match their efficiency.

The Rookie

Go back to my first reply, that was what I was saying!

The Rookie

Remembered this thread and the the bit about equivalence of off and on road mileage, 12.7miles at Cannock was definitely more tiring than any 20mile road ride, and probably less tiring than a 60miler. Of course 'off road' covers such a wide range as to be a little meaningless!