£600 Wheel set recommendations

cycleclinic

I am going to have to give this tubeless thing a go. I have a set of Pacenti rims on custom Royce hubs in the winter bike. The thought of less punctures is very appealing as winter appear to have started you never know I might have a new favourite tyre.

Maxxypriest

swj1 wrote:

So I think I am going to go with Shimano Dura Ace hubs laced to Pacenti SL23 rims and fitted Schwalbe One Evolution Tubeless from Cycle Clinic or Riding Along. Does this seem a good choice to you guys?

I've recently gone for DA9000 hubs and HEF Ardennes rims from JRA and chuffed to bits with how they look and perform!

Also tubeless with Hutchison Fusion 3 tyres which seem again 1st class!

Do it - you won't look back

cycleclinic

What drilling though? HED keep putting back the delivery date for the 28H and 32H rims. 28H wide rims seems to be dropping like flies at present.

gabriel959

thecycleclinic wrote:

What drilling though? HED keep putting back the delivery date for the 28H and 32H rims. 28H wide rims seems to be dropping like flies at present.

dropping like flies as in failing?!? :shock:

Maxxypriest

gabriel959 wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

What drilling though? HED keep putting back the delivery date for the 28H and 32H rims. 28H wide rims seems to be dropping like flies at present.

dropping like flies as in failing?!? :shock:

Sorry I dont get that either

ugo.santalucia

No, it means everything is out of stock at present... August...

thecm

10% off at Ribble this weekend brings a set of Mavic Ksyrium SLS with Yksion tyres just about into budget...

ugo.santalucia

TheCM wrote:

10% off at Ribble this weekend brings a set of Mavic Ksyrium SLS with Yksion tyres just about into budget...

They're just overpriced Ksyrium S...

cycleclinic

Do your self a favour and buy almost anything else but that wheelset and the less said about the tyre the better.
A pair of Zonda's would be a better buy if you are getting "factory wheels" and you would lots of change for lots really good tyres. I don't trust anything with DS radial lacing, it a compromise too far to improve NDS spoke tension.

robbo2011

What's wrong with the tyres? I've been riding them for the last 3000 km mostly in the mountains, they roll well, are more comfortable than 4000s tyres and as demonstrated yesterday by a rapid descent of the Sustenpass, grip fine in the wet.

As for the wheels, well that design has been in use for the last 15 years or so with only minor changes, has probably sold in the hundreds of thousands and has a reputation for robustness and reliability. They can't be that bad, can they? Admit it.

Sometimes it seems that you guys get a little carried away with the hyperbole...

DKay

robbo2011 wrote:

As for the wheels, well that design has been in use for the last 15 years or so with only minor changes, has probably sold in the hundreds of thousands and has a reputation for robustness and reliability. They can't be that bad, can they? Admit it.

Sometimes it seems that you guys get a little carried away with the hyperbole...

I'm pretty sure that Ugo and thecycleclinic have a lot more first-hand wheel building experience than you my friend.

ugo.santalucia

DKay wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

As for the wheels, well that design has been in use for the last 15 years or so with only minor changes, has probably sold in the hundreds of thousands and has a reputation for robustness and reliability. They can't be that bad, can they? Admit it.

Sometimes it seems that you guys get a little carried away with the hyperbole...

I'm pretty sure that Ugo and thecycleclinic have a lot more first-hand wheel building experience than you my friend.

I never said anything about the tyres thought... :shock:

robbo2011

Of course they do, but lets have some perspective here. If the wheels in question were so bad, then why would they be on the market so long and have built such a strong reputation? I'm sure they are not perfect but even so..

My friend.

letap73

DKay wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

As for the wheels, well that design has been in use for the last 15 years or so with only minor changes, has probably sold in the hundreds of thousands and has a reputation for robustness and reliability. They can't be that bad, can they? Admit it.

Sometimes it seems that you guys get a little carried away with the hyperbole...

I'm pretty sure that Ugo and thecycleclinic have a lot more first-hand wheel building experience than you my friend.

So Robbo's ride experience (fairly extensive by the sounds of it) on the Mavics and the tyres are not relevant then, when talking specifically about those wheels and tyres?

ugo.santalucia

robbo2011 wrote:

Of course they do, but lets have some perspective here. If the wheels in question were so bad, then why would they be on the market so long and have built such a strong reputation? I'm sure they are not perfect but even so..

My friend.

Why people put m in the mix... What wheels are we talking about? I only said the SLS are an overpriced version of the Elite S and I stand by it...

robbo2011

There's nothing wrong with that statement, many might agree.

This is the comment that, in my opinion, is a bit OTT and needs a bit more perspective.

thecycleclinic wrote:

Do your self a favour and buy almost anything else but that wheelset and the less said about the tyre the better.

cycleclinic

My comment is based on the fact you can buy more aero, stiffer and all round better wheels for £600. Almost no-one else use DS radial lacing, Mavic use it to improve NDS tension and therefore increase fatigue life of the spokes but there are other ways of achieving this goal without sacrificing torsional stiffness which is important for power transfer. Now given people spend this sort of money for marginal gains, the mavic wheels seem to sacrifice some marginal gains in favour of I am not sure exactly. Therefore there are better wheels i.e one that give you more marginal gains in the price bracket if this is what concerns you. Think DA C24 (not a favourite of mine) but if some one made me ride one of these two wheels (or my bikes would get taken away) I would choose the DA c24. C24 are not stiffer but given the lower spoke count and the Sapim CX-sprint spokes they should be a tad more aerodynamic. In fact I choose something else altogether but that a different matter.

I also think there are tyres I prefer over the mavic ones. Ugo is correct about the price tag of these wheels not being worth it. The only thing they do differently to the lower rung wheels in the krysium range is loose a bit of weight which does almost nothing for how fast you go.

thecm

Wheel builder knocking factory wheels shocker!

Three year old pair of Elite S are in as good condition as the day they went on and ridden regularly year round. SLS are a recent addition but back to back with S are lighter and feel stiffer. Not ridden enough to form a strong opinion on the tyres yet.

As for lighter wheels not improving anything?!!? Live in the hills mate, and they make a difference. I cycle up Englands steepest hills every week. I have no need for aero.

cycleclinic

I think there are other factory wheels that better (depending on the way you define better and I have) the DA c24 for example for the reasons I have outlined. I have not said the OP should buy handbuilt at any point that that is not the point of the posts. My point is the offering from Fulcrum, Campagnolo, shimano and some others are simply better wheels. It is not about whether people have been using them for years without issue. It is about as I have said those marginal gains that you expect when paying this amount of money. Also if you think 200g make a difference on hills then think again it doesn't. Feeling lighter does not equate I am afraid to faster that has been proved time and time again, try doing the maths and you will see what I mean.

DKay

letap73 wrote:

DKay wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

As for the wheels, well that design has been in use for the last 15 years or so with only minor changes, has probably sold in the hundreds of thousands and has a reputation for robustness and reliability. They can't be that bad, can they? Admit it.

Sometimes it seems that you guys get a little carried away with the hyperbole...

I'm pretty sure that Ugo and thecycleclinic have a lot more first-hand wheel building experience than you my friend.

So Robbo's ride experience (fairly extensive by the sounds of it) on the Mavics and the tyres are not relevant then, when talking specifically about those wheels and tyres?

robbo's experience is that of a single person, riding a single sample of the wheels in question. You work it out.

In fact, I think he only has experience of the tyres (?).

robbo2011

Work what out? Theres nothing to work out.

My issue was that the post in question made out that the wheels and tyres in question were both crap and so i respectfully pointed out that long time commercially successful products were hardly likely to be crap.

Cycleclinic then later on posted a reasoned argument as to why he prefers other wheels which is fair enough.

thecm

thecycleclinic wrote:

I think there are other factory wheels that better (depending on the way you define better and I have) the DA c24 for example for the reasons I have outlined. I have not said the OP should buy handbuilt at any point that that is not the point of the posts. My point is the offering from Fulcrum, Campagnolo, shimano and some others are simply better wheels. It is not about whether people have been using them for years without issue. It is about as I have said those marginal gains that you expect when paying this amount of money. Also if you think 200g make a difference on hills then think again it doesn't. Feeling lighter does not equate I am afraid to faster that has been proved time and time again, try doing the maths and you will see what I mean.

But you claim that NDS/DS spoke arrangement is a fatigue weak spot so surely somebody having x years worth of positive experience is counter to your claim and therefore a fair commment in the discussion.

I've had a few pair of Shimanos most recently RS80 and they're just too flexible (though comfy) and I'm neither super heavy or super powerful so have avoided the DA 9000s as they are a similar construction. My new bike had RS81s and they're up for sale this week.

And whatever the science, maths, physiscs, engineering that people quote on the issue of light/aero wheels the accepted wisdom is aero for flat fast riding where once upto speed the momentum maintains speed and light for climbing

robbo2011

Getting back to wheelsets, what do people make of these ?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/black-series-by ... -wheelset/

This is in no way a recommendation, but the spokes look like they are easily replaceable compared with other proprietary wheelsets and they are very light. No idea about the other components though.

cycleclinic

With a 24 spoke front 28 rear and conventional lacing it is not a bad design. Wiggle got the description wrong a 2.0/1.65/2.0mm spoke is not triple butted it is double butted. In fact the spokes are Sapim D-light. I would however suggest the practical weight limit is somewhat lower than 110kg. These weight limits are somewhat arbitrary anyway as rider weight is only one factor in spoke failure. Some light riders kill wheels quickly.

Those wheels above use Sapim D light spokes available through Chicken cycle kit (and any shop that has an account with them which quite frankly is most decent shops in the U.K) in 2mm even length increments so yes spoke replacement should be fairly straight forward. I suppose you are getting tune hubs in the wheels I wonder who makes the rims though.

mercia_man

Getting back to the OP's question, I reckon his idea of Dura Ace hubs, Pacenti SL23 rims and Schwalbe one tubeless from Malcolm at The Cycle Clinic is a good way to go.

I recently got fairly similar wheels from The Cycle Clinic with White Industries T11 hubs and Archetype rims which are fitted with Schwalbe One clinchers. Good informative service and advice from Malcolm, great looking wheels and superb build quality. It was a good consumer experience and there's always after sales back up if anything goes wrong.

I know there are one or two on this forum sceptical of the claimed benefits of wider rims like the Pacenti and Archetype. But my admittedly brief experience would suggest they are superior. In comparison with my Campag Neutron Ultras, my Cycle Clinic wheels are slightly heavier (about 100g) but give a more comfortable ride running on lower pressures and are noticeably stiffer, resulting in more secure cornering and a more direct feel when pushing hard on the pedals. I'm also impressed with One tyres.

cycleclinic

So you are Legend man then. All I hear about those one tyres are good things. I normally don't want my tyres to wear out quickly but I want the corsa's on my pacenti rims to be holed or something so I have an exuse to try them out. Bloody corsa's survived all the gravel I deliberalty rode through tonight though bother!

mercia_man

thecycleclinic wrote:

So you are Legend man then. All I hear about those one tyres are good things. I normally don't want my tyres to wear out quickly but I want the corsa's on my pacenti rims to be holed or something so I have an exuse to try them out. Bloody corsa's survived all the gravel I deliberalty rode through tonight though bother!

Yes it's me. One tyres seem very good. Really easy to fit just with fingers on Archetype rims, roll well, grippy soft rubber and appear so far to be resistant to cuts. The casing feels very supple and I find the ride quality similar to Corsas. Just one pinch puncture going over a cattle grid when I experimented with lowering pressure to 90psi. Gone back to 95. They are 23mm.

rolf_f

TheCM wrote:

And whatever the science, maths, physiscs, engineering that people quote on the issue of light/aero wheels the accepted wisdom is aero for flat fast riding where once upto speed the momentum maintains speed and light for climbing

This is the sort of statement that makes me despair! What hope does this country have with such mindsets in it.....

gabriel959

Rolf F wrote:

TheCM wrote:

And whatever the science, maths, physiscs, engineering that people quote on the issue of light/aero wheels the accepted wisdom is aero for flat fast riding where once upto speed the momentum maintains speed and light for climbing

This is the sort of statement that makes me despair! What hope does this country have with such mindsets in it.....

This country, mankind you mean?! :shock:

ugo.santalucia

Mercia Man wrote:

Yes it's me. One tyres seem very good. Really easy to fit just with fingers on Archetype rims, roll well, grippy soft rubber and appear so far to be resistant to cuts. The casing feels very supple and I find the ride quality similar to Corsas. Just one pinch puncture going over a cattle grid when I experimented with lowering pressure to 90psi. Gone back to 95. They are 23mm.

You should try the tubeless ONE, they are awesome!