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NATO Summit

ProssPross Posts: 25,313
edited September 2014 in The cake stop
I've got the 'joy' of this happening more or less on my doorstep in a couple of weeks time and it's already causing disruption. They are erecting over 20 miles of steel fencing on the M4 and all around the Celtic Manor. Now they have started installing it down the centre of the road on one of the main approaches into Cardiff which resulted in a 45 minute delay on my trip to work this morning even though this time of year is the quietest for traffic (dread to think what it is going to be like for the first few days of September!!). It all seems like a total waste of money, the fencing must be costing millions and I understand the whole perimeter fence at Cardiff airport has also had to be replaced at a cost of over £1 million. Add to that the policing costs and the general disruption (at least the Yanks didn't get their way with their demand that the M4 be shut between Newport and Cardiff for the duration :shock: ).

Unlike many major events I just can't see where the financial upside is to compensate for all the cost. It's not as if Obama or Merkel and their entourages are going to be going on a shopping spree in Newport or there will be a huge influx of tourists (just a load of peace activists and some political journalists). Why don't they just hold the summit on a ship moored miles out to sea where it won't cause disruption and where it would be reasonably easy to provide security via a NATO fleet?
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  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,824
    Pross wrote:
    I've got the 'joy' of this happening more or less on my doorstep in a couple of weeks time and it's already causing disruption. They are erecting over 20 miles of steel fencing on the M4 and all around the Celtic Manor. Now they have started installing it down the centre of the road on one of the main approaches into Cardiff which resulted in a 45 minute delay on my trip to work this morning even though this time of year is the quietest for traffic (dread to think what it is going to be like for the first few days of September!!). It all seems like a total waste of money, the fencing must be costing millions and I understand the whole perimeter fence at Cardiff airport has also had to be replaced at a cost of over £1 million. Add to that the policing costs and the general disruption (at least the Yanks didn't get their way with their demand that the M4 be shut between Newport and Cardiff for the duration :shock: ).

    Unlike many major events I just can't see where the financial upside is to compensate for all the cost. It's not as if Obama or Merkel and their entourages are going to be going on a shopping spree in Newport or there will be a huge influx of tourists (just a load of peace activists and some political journalists). Why don't they just hold the summit on a ship moored miles out to sea where it won't cause disruption and where it would be reasonably easy to provide security via a NATO fleet?

    I'm with you on this...I'd like to see the cost benefit analysis and how they came to the conclusion that the Celtic Manor was the best place to host this event.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,198
    drlodge wrote:
    I'm with you on this...I'd like to see the cost benefit analysis and how they came to the conclusion that the Celtic Manor was the best place to host this event.

    decision making process seems pretty clear...
    Celtic Manor Resort is a golf, spa and leisure hotel and resort in Newport, south Wales. It consists of two adjoining hotels, a country inn, luxury lodges, two spas, 6 restaurants, three championship golf courses, two golf and country clubs, high ropes courses, adventure golf, laser tag, archery and a multi-purpose conference centre.

    ...another taxpayer funded jolly for all concerned
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 7,484
    Ah good. Must be we are through the 'age of austerity', 'need for belt tightening' etc etc ad nauseam from every political gobsx!xe for the past 6 years...?
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    sungod wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    I'm with you on this...I'd like to see the cost benefit analysis and how they came to the conclusion that the Celtic Manor was the best place to host this event.

    decision making process seems pretty clear...
    Celtic Manor Resort is a golf, spa and leisure hotel and resort in Newport, south Wales. It consists of two adjoining hotels, a country inn, luxury lodges, two spas, 6 restaurants, three championship golf courses, two golf and country clubs, high ropes courses, adventure golf, laser tag, archery and a multi-purpose conference centre.

    ...another taxpayer funded jolly for all concerned

    Apparently only the Yanks are staying at the Celtic itself, the others are being driven in daily hence all the security going up in Cardiff too. I've been wondering how the protocol works with which leaders get the top rooms at this sort of thing, must be a political nightmare not offending the PM of Poland by chucking him in a family room at the local Premier Inn whilst Obama gets a suite at the Celtic Manor!!
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,106
    Pross wrote:
    I've got the 'joy' of this happening more or less on my doorstep in a couple of weeks time and it's already causing disruption. They are erecting over 20 miles of steel fencing on the M4 and all around the Celtic Manor. Now they have started installing it down the centre of the road on one of the main approaches into Cardiff which resulted in a 45 minute delay on my trip to work this morning even though this time of year is the quietest for traffic (dread to think what it is going to be like for the first few days of September!!). It all seems like a total waste of money, the fencing must be costing millions and I understand the whole perimeter fence at Cardiff airport has also had to be replaced at a cost of over £1 million. Add to that the policing costs and the general disruption (at least the Yanks didn't get their way with their demand that the M4 be shut between Newport and Cardiff for the duration :shock: ).

    Unlike many major events I just can't see where the financial upside is to compensate for all the cost. It's not as if Obama or Merkel and their entourages are going to be going on a shopping spree in Newport or there will be a huge influx of tourists (just a load of peace activists and some political journalists). Why don't they just hold the summit on a ship moored miles out to sea where it won't cause disruption and where it would be reasonably easy to provide security via a NATO fleet?

    NIMBY.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    Wouldn't have it in anyone's back yard to be honest. Hence the suggestion to stick it in the middle of the ocean away from everyone. :wink:
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,824
    Pross wrote:
    Apparently only the Yanks are staying at the Celtic itself, the others are being driven in daily hence all the security going up in Cardiff too. I've been wondering how the protocol works with which leaders get the top rooms at this sort of thing, must be a political nightmare not offending the PM of Poland by chucking him in a family room at the local Premier Inn whilst Obama gets a suite at the Celtic Manor!!

    I'd be a bit pi$$ed if staying somewhere else as the Celtic Manor breakfast are to die for :P
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,106
    Pross wrote:
    Wouldn't have it in anyone's back yard to be honest. Hence the suggestion to stick it in the middle of the ocean away from everyone. :wink:
    Fair enough but I do not recall complaints in previous years and locations.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,824
    Pross wasn't living next door to the locations in previous years :roll:
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,106
    drlodge wrote:
    Pross wasn't living next door to the locations in previous years :roll:
    Thank you for further clarifying my point.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    pblakeney wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Wouldn't have it in anyone's back yard to be honest. Hence the suggestion to stick it in the middle of the ocean away from everyone. :wink:
    Fair enough but I do not recall complaints in previous years and locations.

    I don't think people realise the impact until they see it for themselves, I'd certainly never realised just how long in advance it starts to become a PITA. I assume it's similar for G7(8?) etc. Maybe it has less impact in places like the US where they can hold it in the middle of nowhere and just fly people in.

    I'm working on a construction scheme in the centre of Cardiff so nearly 20 miles away and the work that needs to be completed by 1 September can't be as there was a ban on any roadworks in the area from the end of July as a result of this. It would make far more sense for the summit to be held in an existing high security area such as a military camp but then the VIPs wouldn't be getting their 5* hotels.

    As I said, if it was going to benefit the local economy I wouldn't mind even though it would still have a negative impact on me personally but I really can't see what benefit it will bring.
  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    Many NATO summits have been held in the heart of big cities (often capital cities). I cant remember whether there was negative press about the location in the past but they have certainly been the subject of very significant protests during the summit itself focused on NATO policy. I dont really get why they have opted for Newport unless they believe it will be easier to control any protests (and might limit the number of spare of the moment protesters you get in a big city).
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    I can't think of a much less secure location to be honest. It doesn't have security by remoteness but it is also surrounded by a huge swathe of open countryside. Arguably all they need to do is barrier off the immediate hotel area itself. They could even keep the 2010 golf course up and running. I'm pretty sure that's what they did with a European summit a few years ago.
  • I'd give Ikea in Cardiff a swrve that weekend
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    You think Barack is going to pop in for a bit of flat pack stuff?
  • Paulie W wrote:
    I dont really get why they have opted for Newport

    I don't suppose the Ryder Cup golf course at the Celtic Manor had anything to do with it. :wink:

    I'm with Pross on this one. I drove along a few miles of the fence yesterday. The cost must be phenomenal. They have also closed the airspace within 20 miles of the hotel for 3 days with threats of interception if breached.

    Sticking it on a carrier out at sea is a great idea.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,755
    I have never understood why the G7/8 or Nato summits are not held on an air force base ie; Brize Norton. All the heads of state can fly straight into an already secured zone. There is plenty of parking space for Air Force 1 and the other assortment of over sized private jets. They can use a hanger for the summit, the accom' blocks for bed mess halls for B&B. Simpled. Hardly any extra costs to the tax payer and no disruption to the local community.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • kingstoniankingstonian Posts: 2,340
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I have never understood why the G7/8 or Nato summits are not held on an air force base ie; Brize Norton. All the heads of state can fly straight into an already secured zone. There is plenty of parking space for Air Force 1 and the other assortment of over sized private jets. They can use a hanger for the summit, the accom' blocks for bed mess halls for B&B. Simpled. Hardly any extra costs to the tax payer and no disruption to the local community.



    I was just going to post exactly the same. It is a frightening waste of money to hold it in a swanky country club.
  • nathancomnathancom Posts: 1,567
    When they held the G8 in Scotland it was great. We got to wander through Edinburgh in a big protest group complaining about the rich or something and then watch teenagers dressed in black have a fight with the police.
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I have never understood why the G7/8 or Nato summits are not held on an air force base ie; Brize Norton. All the heads of state can fly straight into an already secured zone. There is plenty of parking space for Air Force 1 and the other assortment of over sized private jets. They can use a hanger for the summit, the accom' blocks for bed mess halls for B&B. Simpled. Hardly any extra costs to the tax payer and no disruption to the local community.

    'Cos then the politicians would have to live in the same sh**ty conditions as the people they send off to fight / die have to manage with on a daily basis and that would never do.
  • tlw1tlw1 Posts: 18,828
    Pross wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I have never understood why the G7/8 or Nato summits are not held on an air force base ie; Brize Norton. All the heads of state can fly straight into an already secured zone. There is plenty of parking space for Air Force 1 and the other assortment of over sized private jets. They can use a hanger for the summit, the accom' blocks for bed mess halls for B&B. Simpled. Hardly any extra costs to the tax payer and no disruption to the local community.

    'Cos then the politicians would have to live in the same sh**ty conditions as the people they send off to fight / die have to manage with on a daily basis and that would never do.

    it would improve your commute though
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    Yep, it would be a win-win. Better for me and making politicians live like people who have to do their bidding :wink:

    I know a very high security place just 40 miles north-west of Newport with a runway and they do a great curry in the sergeant's mess for visiting rugby teams so I'm sure they could rustle something up for visiting VIPs.
  • gethincerigethinceri Posts: 1,120
    Given that most of the hotels in South Wales are utterly shite it does boggle the mind that they've chosen to host the summit there. Given that a visit to Newport would worry a West Bank protestor I really do wonder even more why they've decided on Celtic Manor, you should be pleased to see the barriers up though, I'd rather see f*** all than have to look at Newport.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,119
    PITA, NIMBY, VIP, NATO. G8 - Chirst this is acronym hell...

    When they held the G8 in Scotland and Narden Irlan, Prestwich Airport (55 miles from me) was teeming with security vehicles. Cairnryan and Stranraer ports were also teeming with police vehicles. We watched a stream of police vans come off the ferry (and back on) that stretched to the horizon. It was sheer chaos and disruption for 6 weeks.
    I still cannot comprehend the amount and level of security and it is not justifiable. I hope some protesters breach the fence in Newport, i'd larf.
    So I am with the OP (for a change :wink: ).
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    There's plenty of galvanised steel that will be ready for re-cycling in a couple of weeks if your interested?
  • gethincerigethinceri Posts: 1,120
    It'll all be robbed and flogged down Liswerry before the week's out!
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,119
    Pross wrote:
    There's plenty of galvanised steel that will be ready for re-cycling in a couple of weeks if your interested?

    Bloody awful stuff for re-cycling - that damn coating has to be removed first so it's only worth £50 a ton and our van is too small to fill it up with much of it. Nonetheless, have you got a decent pair of bolt cutters? I snapped mine on a D-lock.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • crumbschiefcrumbschief Posts: 3,400
    I feel down but i felt summit was up.
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,313
    A few people locally are reporting problems with their GPS bike computers which they are putting down to scrambling of the satellite systems in the area to prevent possible missile attack. Is this:-

    a) Tinfoil hat material
    b) People finding an excuse for censored Strava results or
    c) Actually technically likely?
  • gethincerigethinceri Posts: 1,120
    d. All the above.
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