Gym Work + Foam Rollers

Joeblack

Hi Guys,

A couple of questions here, for the more serious cyclists hence why iv posted in here.

1 - For those of you who incorporate the gym in with their training, Iv always been a gym attendee since leaving the forces and have always worked my whole body doing split training but during this summer where I have taken cycling a lot more seriously I have had to knock doing legs on the head as it just doesn't fit, for a good few days after a leg session I just cant put in any proper effort on the bike. Its not just the soreness its just when things heat up a bit my legs are too tired to keep up the pace. This isn't really ideal and Iv found iv lost size and strength in my legs (not that this bothers me) and also some power. So my question is how do you work a legs session into your cycling to benefit it but not hamper the amount you can train and what do you do?

2 - Foam rollers, after much research iv bought one of these and started using it but does anyone know of any cycling specific ways of rolling, also do you roll before you roll (see what I did there? that's funny because on your bike you roll ahhh I need to get out more :roll: )

Obviously any time taken to answer these questions is appreciated, also anyone pointing me in the way of a site that offers advice on both questions

thanks

sloppyschleckonds

Oh my days

danlikesbikes

YouTube I guess is a good start point

owen21

I can train legs most days and still do ok on the bike but sometimes they do feel a bit lethargic the first few miles. You only need to train your legs once/twice a week if you do it well i.e squats, deadlifts, RDLs, lunges etc. Theres no need to train them until you cant walk, just use a standard rep/set scheme like 5x5 and aim for continuous progression. So start using weights lighter than you can do now (70-80%) and then add more weight once you feel ready either in a week or 2. During this time keep on top of recovery and still try and ride as you normally would, you'll soon adapt and i just wouldnt train your legs the day before you biggest ride of the week. So train legs, then the next day use as a recovery ride then ride harder after that.

As for rolling i only do it when i feel tight in certain areas, so after a gym session on a night i use mine, or after a decent ride. But if i feel ok then i dont bother, sleep and food is better for recovery. Stretching is good too. You could roll before you ride but again, if you feel you dont need to, then dont, its just wasting time and a little bit of energy, However some people do like using them as a warm up but i prefer a dynamic warm up.

andy37

SO i might get shot down for mentioning the dreaded football here but basically i see a physio who is also our local football teams physio (championship side so a high level) and he also teaches physiotherapy for the football association so this guy really knows his stuff. Anyway after our very 1st appointment he got me rolling and stressed the importance of it and also explained that last season before every football game the physio team had every player run through a rolling program and they had far less injuries than previous seasons.
The main area to roll is your ITB band so outside of your leg but this also plugs into your knee on the outside just above and just under the knee, also any other areas that feel tight or infact painful. Look on youtube for exercises but the basics are put weight onto the roller so you feel the pain then hold that until the pain dissipates by 50% the roll in the direction of the muscle for around 30 seconds.

Joeblack

Thanks to those who have replied,

Luke, one thing I have found whilst looking into foam rollers is that they aren't good for your lower back, apparently it's not recommended to use them below the lats, it's just something iv read though but thought I'd point it out as you mentioned rolling your lower back

owen21

Rolling your IT band is a funny one, the strength of the IT band is similar to steel rope so rolling it can add not much benefit BUT if it works for you, theres no harm in doing it.

Yeah rolling lower back is said to be a no-no, that said, if my spinal erectors are tight...im guna roll them. Apparently theres no ribs down there to protect organs and the like, so be sensible and i reckon you'll be ok.

I think the cycling & weights thing is an adaptation process really. I know its different kettle of fish but track cyclists (sprint) train power movements & lower body in the AM and hit the track in the PM. But they'll have built up to that.

simon_e

If you can get hold of a copy of the free A5-sized Sportif mag (http://www.sportifmagazine.com/) there is an article about using a foam roller. I wouldn't normally take much notice but the model for the photos is an excellent sports therapist who knows his stuff.

Here is his foam roller playlist on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 7EC83803E0

olake92

1. I agree with my apparent doppelgaenger (how do I do a frickin' umlaut?!), owen21, that sticking to something basic like 5x5 and not overloading too much is a good way to train. As Luke points out, you can still lift pretty heavy and expect good training. I suspect your problem comes from training in split muscle groups, where usually you can't do each muscle group more than two times a week. I like to do full body workouts in the gym, but not go near failure.

How do you train in the gym? I took from your OP that you split the muscle groups for each day (eg back and bi/chest and tri/leg), is that correct? How many sets/reps do you aim for and at what weight as a rough percentage of your max?

Additionally, if my memory serves me well, endurance training inhibits mass gain. However, I don't know if that is just because of the practical problems inherent in the extra calorie consumption required to fuel it, or something more scientific.

2. One of the best buys you can get, considering how little they cost! If you do it regularly, foam rolling can help to prevent all sorts of injuries; twice daily rolling (self myofascial release (SMR)) helped solve my achilles tendonitis in a month, although I don't recommend as much SMR in ordinary circumstances.. I like to roll and then stretch afterwards, once the 'knots' have been ironed out. I roll as normal, going up and down each target muscle/muscle group 5-10 times slowly, then focus on any tight spots for a little longer, much like a massage.

I don't use foam rollers on my lower back - I used to, until a friend of mine who is also a PT explained the potential for damaging the spine/organs. Now, I'd rather not take the risk.

Rolling before rolling... I've not noticed any difference either way. It just depends on when you have the time. Personally, I don't like to do too much SMR just before a ride if it will cause any muscle soreness (once again, a bit like a deep massage). On the other hand, SMR does put my body in a more 'functional' state where things work properly! I guess it's six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Joeblack

Hi,

Thanks for that, much of your advice makes sense,

In the gym I go with

Chest
Back
Shoulders
Legs
Repeat.

I stick to mainly large power moves ie bench for chest pull ups for back etc, doing heavy ish weight for about 40mins and then a abs blast and I'm outta there,

The weights I lift are roughly as follows.

Bench 110kg <5reps
Pull ups 4x12 at body weight
Shoulder press 75 <5 reps
Squats 120 <5reps
Dead lift 150 <5reps

They are just the key moves obviously I do other exercises.

I'm happy with my weight 83kg @ 6'3" and I'm not looking to gain any muscle if anything I'm happy to lose some because I am aiming to race next year and know the training involved will make
It hard to put on size but I'm fine with that

olake92

Joeblack wrote:

In the gym I go with

Chest
Back
Shoulders
Legs
Repeat.

So you do a full body workout each time, not splitting muscle groups between days? That's good - I wondered if a whole leg day would be too much, hence the soreness. That doesn't seem to be the problem.

I stick to mainly large power moves ie bench for chest pull ups for back etc, doing heavy ish weight for about 40mins and then a abs blast and I'm outta there,

The weights I lift are roughly as follows.

Bench 110kg <5reps
Pull ups 4x12 at body weight
Shoulder press 75 <5 reps
Squats 120 <5reps
Dead lift 150 <5reps

I'm happy with my weight 83kg @ 6'3" and I'm not looking to gain any muscle if anything I'm happy to lose some because I am aiming to race next year and know the training involved will make it hard to put on size but I'm fine with that

I bet you're ripped! How many sets do you do for each exercise? If it's not too many, and you're not going to failure too much (for example, with drop sets), then maybe the tiredness is not related to the actual training; obviously I don't know you and your lifestyle, but I find if I don't get at least 1.5g/kg of protein, and within 20% of my daily calorie expenditure, I'm more tired the next day than I should be. Furthermore, If I'm asleep after 11:30pm, I'll see a significant drop in performance the next day, no matter how many hours of sleep I get! Ignore all that if it doesn't apply

As for losing weight, you could do weighted pull ups to keep the rep range down. You could also just drop the weight a bit for your upper body exercises, while continuing the workouts. Dieting while dropping the weight would probably work.

You could always do the SKY method - 2 weeks of crazy dieting, taking in only as many calories as you need, just around your base metabolic rate, while still training. This forces your body to go catabolic and eat muscles to find the extra energy. I wouldn't recommend it though - the body doesn't discriminate between muscle types and your heart is one of those!

mackdaddy

Hi Joe
A couple of points. Foam rolling (SMR) doesn't really do anything post workout. It is effective as a pre-workout muscle activation. A light massage to activate the muscles, not a deep recovery massage. So I would advise rolling pre rolling.
Second, the reason you are bombed from the weights is that you are over-stressing your CNS system. High weight low rep work increases strength but has a high neural stress and takes longer to recover from. You would be better, for cycling benefits, sticking to higher reps (10-12) of 2-3 sets with the appropriate weights (12 RM) and reasonable recovery between sets (approx 5 minutes). This way, you will create less CNS stress and your recovery will be quicker as you are recovering from muscle fatigue instead. If you wish to do CNS work on your legs to increase peak power output, you need to allow about 48 hours recovery.
Lee