Getting annoyed....and griping. Lol.

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Comments

  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    simon_ls wrote:
    It's nice to start a clan war. Lol. It's like egg or chicken.

    I think people are missing my point.

    I will openly admit I don't like shimano, I never had, from riding with it to working in a bike shop for two years and seeing the problems with it wearing out from the people who came in with it.
    I have had nothing but problems with it personally. For reliability or longevity.

    My original post was aimed at the lack of choice made available from manufacturers by not supplying people with choice and instead just buying group sets cheap for the sake of profit.
    For anyone who rides duraace or ultegra would you be willing to swap to Claris because that's what the bike comes with.
    Would you not prefer to choose what you have?
    There is a huge difference in quality provided by cheap group sets that they stick on bikes.
    It would be better for manufacturers to have a choice of group sets available to customers rather than forcing shimano down our throats because they buy it cheaper than the others because of cheap labour costs and mass production.
    Isn't quality better than crap.?
    It works out dearer to build a bike but you get what you want, but surely we shouldn't be limited of choice by profit margins.

    1. If Campagnolo dropped their prices maybe more bikes would come fitted with it. I don't believe for a minute they cost more to produce then Shimano alternatives at the same level - DA - Super Record etc.

    2. I can name loads of manufacturers who supply their bikes with different groupset makes. If independent bike shops only stock the Shimano versions then Campagnolo or Sram should do more. Its not on the onus of the seller to seek them he has profit margins to worry about.

    If you can't find bikes out there with Campag ir Sram prefit then you are not looking hard enough
  • simon_ls
    simon_ls Posts: 12
    My apologies to people who may have been offended,
    I am frustrated, I am pissed, angry and I have had enough,

    I am sick of a lot of things and cycling was the only thing I had left and that is starting to p**s me off with limited choices and cost.

    Back and neck problems and Cancer, and I have had enough.

    I will be closing my account.
    My apologies again to people.
  • Colinthecop
    Colinthecop Posts: 996
    You're leaving...?

    flounce 1 - /flaʊns/
    verb
    1. go or move in an exaggeratedly impatient or angry manner.
    noun
    1. an exaggerated action intended to express annoyance or impatience.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    could you not just get the bike you want, buy the groupset you want, swap the groupsets and sell the original for probably about as much as you bought the new groupset for?
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • navrig2
    navrig2 Posts: 1,851
    simon_ls wrote:
    It's nice to start a clan war. Lol. It's like egg or chicken.

    I think people are missing my point.

    I will openly admit I don't like shimano, I never had, from riding with it to working in a bike shop for two years and seeing the problems with it wearing out from the people who came in with it.
    I have had nothing but problems with it personally. For reliability or longevity.

    My original post was aimed at the lack of choice made available from manufacturers by not supplying people with choice and instead just buying group sets cheap for the sake of profit.
    For anyone who rides duraace or ultegra would you be willing to swap to Claris because that's what the bike comes with.
    Would you not prefer to choose what you have?
    There is a huge difference in quality provided by cheap group sets that they stick on bikes.
    It would be better for manufacturers to have a choice of group sets available to customers rather than forcing shimano down our throats because they buy it cheaper than the others because of cheap labour costs and mass production.
    Isn't quality better than crap.?
    It works out dearer to build a bike but you get what you want, but surely we shouldn't be limited of choice by profit margins.

    I don't think people are missing your point. The fact is people have choice at all points of their selection and purchase process. If Shimano have been clever enough to position themselves as the supplier of kit to many bike manufacturers and Campag and SRAM have let them you can hardly blame Shimano or the bike manufacturers. The fact is Campag has been around for longer than Shimano but allowed its position in the market to be overtaken. SRAM, as I understand it, were late to the road scene and have been playing catch up for years.

    The kit Shimano sells works fine in my experience (Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra plus various bits of MTB stuff) and now I have committed to Shimano I will stick with it. I think you'll find that may people think like that.
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,294
    Instead of whinging like a fanny about buying a bike thats all finished why not grow a pair, order in what you want and build the fucking thing yourself.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    My gripe, people who change the names of companies or people to make them sound bad. Whereas they don't they make themselves look like stupid children.
  • drummer_boy
    drummer_boy Posts: 236
    I think the reason Shimano pretty much rule the manufacturer roost, is that they make groupsets at all price points, from cheapy claris, up to Dura Ace and DI2.

    So a manufacturer can cut one contract, with attendant volume discounts, with one supplier, and save a bunch more money.

    SRAM and Campag gear starts at the mid range of Shimano products.

    You can get them as options (see Dolan/Ribble and other to order builders), but not on the big mass producers.

    Once a per son has bought a cheaper bike, and upgrades they tend to stick to the brands they know, so choose Shimano next time as well.
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Drummer_Boy wrote:

    You can get them as options (see Dolan/Ribble and other to order builders), but not on the big mass producers.

    Here are 2 of the BIG mass production brands available. lets see what they have available

    http://www.bianchistore.de/Bianchi-Sempre-Pro_1 3 different makes of groupset available

    http://www.cannondale.com/gbr/2014/bikes/road/elite-road/supersix-evo 2 Shimano & Sram

    http://www.ridley-bikes.com/de/en/bikes/1/158/101/race/noah-fast-team-replica-1425a Most is Shimano but top end model has Campagnolo Record

    Same can be found on Scott , Ridley and loads other I found

    Looks to me you can buy all 3 brands of groupset across a single frame on both seen here. See If you look you will see there are options around. No need to complain about non availability of Sram or Camapgnolo if they can be supplied. If your local dealer doesn't have the particular groupset you want get him to order one. If he won't then go elsewhere.
  • Avenger197396
    Avenger197396 Posts: 72
    Genuine question. Does low end Shimano kit wear out quicker than high end? I'm thinking of that "cheap, light, strong" quote. Seems to me that the kit pros use would be more likely to be designed to be light rather than long lasting, a bit like the F1 engines story. On the other hand Dura Ace in even Di2 form is more attainable than a Ferrari F1 car would be to a dullard like me! I'm thinking out loud. :shock:

    Frankly I'm always amazed at the beatings I manage to inflict on my group sets through poor gear changes etc and how it keeps going. I've got both SRAM Apex and Shimano 105 and both seem to be well made and engineered.
  • IanRCarter
    IanRCarter Posts: 217
    Drummer_Boy wrote:
    I think the reason Shimano pretty much rule the manufacturer roost, is that they make groupsets at all price points, from cheapy claris, up to Dura Ace and DI2.

    So a manufacturer can cut one contract, with attendant volume discounts, with one supplier, and save a bunch more money.

    SRAM and Campag gear starts at the mid range of Shimano products.

    You can get them as options (see Dolan/Ribble and other to order builders), but not on the big mass producers.

    Once a per son has bought a cheaper bike, and upgrades they tend to stick to the brands they know, so choose Shimano next time as well.

    This pretty much sums it up for me. New cyclists will probably get a bike with Claris, Sora or Tiagra groupset, these create a good impression. There are a lot of Campag users who don't sell the brand very well with there snobbish attitude. I'm not saying Campagnolo or SRAM are bad, but Shimano have a much better business model.
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    Buy bike from good LBS, say "I would like Shimano removed & Campagnolo fitted", ask them to work out the cost difference, pay it, wait for it to be fitted, ride away a happy man/lady/ladyboy.
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    Avenger197396 wrote:
    Genuine question. Does low end Shimano kit wear out quicker than high end? I'm thinking of that "cheap, light, strong" quote. Seems to me that the kit pros use would be more likely to be designed to be light rather than long lasting, a bit like the F1 engines story. On the other hand Dura Ace in even Di2 form is more attainable than a Ferrari F1 car would be to a dullard like me! I'm thinking out loud. :shock:

    Frankly I'm always amazed at the beatings I manage to inflict on my group sets through poor gear changes etc and how it keeps going. I've got both SRAM Apex and Shimano 105 and both seem to be well made and engineered.

    The opposite is true. The lower end "workhorse" groupsets like Tiagra and 105 are more durable. The highest end is designed for performance first with weight being the priority and do wear quicker. Dura ace and Super record etc were not designed for the casual rider to use 12 months of the year over and over again so don't expect them to last as long. Same as tyres or rims. The high end is designed for performance not durability.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    The opposite is true. The lower end "workhorse" groupsets like Tiagra and 105 are more durable. The highest end is designed for performance first with weight being the priority and do wear quicker. Dura ace and Super record etc were not designed for the casual rider to use 12 months of the year over and over again so don't expect them to last as long. Same as tyres or rims. The high end is designed for performance not durability.

    I'm not convinced about this at least as far as Campag goes. The component designs are pretty much the same - just lighter composites etc used at higher end. No reason to assume that those are the parts that wear out. I've worn a Centaur rear mech out at the cage pivots which are probably no less durable on Record. The only significant difference between Record brakes and Veloce is that you get sealed bearing pivots rather than bushes in the Record - the bearings will probably last longer.

    Of course, I'll never find out for sure because, as you say, those parts are not on the bike I use day in, day out.

    IanRCarter wrote:
    There are a lot of Campag users who don't sell the brand very well with there snobbish attitude. I'm not saying Campagnolo or SRAM are bad, but Shimano have a much better business model.

    :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • buzzwold
    buzzwold Posts: 197
    Whenever I read one of these threads I'm always impressed by the passion on all sides and by the fact that to the outside world we must sound like a right bunch of charlies.

    We seem to have lost the originator of the thread along the way, who unless I misread indicated that he had cancer. If he's still watching this I wish him well.

    Have fun on your Campy, SRAM, Shimano or other be-jewelled steeds.
    Someone's just passed me again
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    Avenger197396 wrote:
    Genuine question. Does low end Shimano kit wear out quicker than high end? I'm thinking of that "cheap, light, strong" quote. Seems to me that the kit pros use would be more likely to be designed to be light rather than long lasting, a bit like the F1 engines story. On the other hand Dura Ace in even Di2 form is more attainable than a Ferrari F1 car would be to a dullard like me! I'm thinking out loud. :shock:

    Frankly I'm always amazed at the beatings I manage to inflict on my group sets through poor gear changes etc and how it keeps going. I've got both SRAM Apex and Shimano 105 and both seem to be well made and engineered.

    The opposite is true. The lower end "workhorse" groupsets like Tiagra and 105 are more durable. The highest end is designed for performance first with weight being the priority and do wear quicker. Dura ace and Super record etc were not designed for the casual rider to use 12 months of the year over and over again so don't expect them to last as long. Same as tyres or rims. The high end is designed for performance not durability.

    That's really not my experience. Dura Ace lasts a hell of a long time. So long as you maintain them - I mean whats to go wrong on a groupset ? Its blocks, chains, rings, sprockets - all consumables. The rest lasts indefinitely.
    So much so that its hard to upgrade as they keep going on.

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