Class snobbery?

VTech

Paulie W wrote:

VTech wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

I doubt it's without thought. Presumably you target someone because you're prety sure you're going to get a juicy story or because you think if you do get a story it is one that will really appeal to your audience. The logic of that thought is what's in question and whether it's driven by a sense that stories about working-class celebrities or about women ultimately make 'better' news.

You would like to think that but this isn't the case.
None of these stings (sting is the wrong word, it suggests an infiltration) are already in situ, they are made to happen, the real word is entrapment. Even that is false to a level as it is more of a commissioned entrapment.

I think you misunderstand me - I realise these stings are made to happen I simply dont accept that targets are chosen randomly and believes that they are chosen using some kind of selection criteria.

Ahh, sorry.
Yes, agreed. I think they look who is of the highest profile and then out of the candidates they look at who would be the easiest to bring down or the one with the greater shock value.
Its funny how people post about how they have never heard of her or mark her as a nobody but the reality was that she was a prolific part of the biggest tv show in the uk and as such was a great target.

I was at a private gig with Amy Winehouse a few weeks before she died, this was in London and she was as sober as a judge, it was a great night and when she left we were a few meters in front of her. There were hundreds of photographers around, more than I've ever witnessed and she slipped, the following day she was branded as drunk leaving a club in china town which was a blatant lie. They have no care, they think nothing of lives ruined and they won't ever pay for the sins because thats how british people are, as a nation this type of behaviour is lapped up and loved.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

....as sober as a judge....

Do you know many judges?

That phrase has always perplexed me.

Richard_D

I think the target has nothing to do with class and more to do with what the demographic of that paper consider to be a celebrity.
As for the press, every story I have had direct knowledge of what happened the report in the paper has been factually inaccurate. Some times they have been minor errors but sometimes they have been howlers. Because of that I always view each report wondering what they left out and what they got wrong. No I do not 'read' the Red tops.

pesky_jones

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

....as sober as a judge....

Do you know many judges?

That phrase has always perplexed me.

Really? I assumed it was because when you're not sober you don't make good decisions. Someone that does make good decisions is a judge. Perhaps it should be sober as a judge at work, but that doesn't really have much flow

pblakeney

Pesky Jones wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

....as sober as a judge....

Do you know many judges?

That phrase has always perplexed me.

Really? I assumed it was because when you're not sober you don't make good decisions. Someone that does make good decisions is a judge. Perhaps it should be sober as a judge at work, but that doesn't really have much flow

I am not so sure about that.
Some of my best decisions have been made following a libation.
Your second sentence does ring true though.

pesky_jones

PBlakeney wrote:

Pesky Jones wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

....as sober as a judge....

Do you know many judges?

That phrase has always perplexed me.

Really? I assumed it was because when you're not sober you don't make good decisions. Someone that does make good decisions is a judge. Perhaps it should be sober as a judge at work, but that doesn't really have much flow

I am not so sure about that.
Some of my best decisions have been made following a libation.
Your second sentence does ring true though.

Its relative I guess. At the time you consider it the best decision you could make, hence you choosing it above other options. Later on, you might not consider it the best option you could have gone with. Only one of these can be true? If its the first, then that means there has never been a bad decision?

Monkeypump

I think 'sober' is used in the context of being 'straight' or 'sensible' rather than non-drunk.

graham.

"As sober as a judge" but " As drunk as a lord"!

verylonglegs

coriordan wrote:

I think it's pretty messed up to go through that length just to destroy someone. Anyone who says she got what she 'deserved' is pretty screwed up themselves.

Don't mis-understand me, I don't agree with the actions of the newpaper at all it's just that I've not much consideration for any of the parties involved, the journalists, the fame hungry desperados or the empty souls who feel the need to read about them, I can't be done with any of it.

Not sure why Vtech finds it funny that some people don't watch TV, I've not had one in the house for years, but it really is possible to turn a blind eye to that part of popular culture and survive in life. I only got caught up in this story due to the BBC deeming it relevant as it resulted in a failed criminal trial and I can understand their decision in that respect, even if it's not really that shocking for me to discover that Sun journalists aren't beacons of morality. Until the public at large shakes off it's torpor over what they want to read about then I'm afraid that is the situation we are left with.

pblakeney

Pesky Jones wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I am not so sure about that.
Some of my best decisions have been made following a libation.
Your second sentence does ring true though.

Its relative I guess. At the time you consider it the best decision you could make, hence you choosing it above other options. Later on, you might not consider it the best option you could have gone with. Only one of these can be true? If its the first, then that means there has never been a bad decision?

You are losing me.
At the time of having a drink, all decisions are the best ones.
In hindsight, some of those decisions were the best ones.

Sometimes freeing up the mind gets rid of clutter. Sometimes it distracts the mind. Only time tells the truth.

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

Pesky Jones wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I am not so sure about that.
Some of my best decisions have been made following a libation.
Your second sentence does ring true though.

Its relative I guess. At the time you consider it the best decision you could make, hence you choosing it above other options. Later on, you might not consider it the best option you could have gone with. Only one of these can be true? If its the first, then that means there has never been a bad decision?

You are losing me.
At the time of having a drink, all decisions are the best ones.
In hindsight, some of those decisions were the best ones.

Sometimes freeing up the mind gets rid of clutter. Sometimes it distracts the mind. Only time tells the truth.

I really do hope thats the truth. (personal)

pesky_jones

VTech wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Pesky Jones wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I am not so sure about that.
Some of my best decisions have been made following a libation.
Your second sentence does ring true though.

Its relative I guess. At the time you consider it the best decision you could make, hence you choosing it above other options. Later on, you might not consider it the best option you could have gone with. Only one of these can be true? If its the first, then that means there has never been a bad decision?

You are losing me.
At the time of having a drink, all decisions are the best ones.
In hindsight, some of those decisions were the best ones.

Sometimes freeing up the mind gets rid of clutter. Sometimes it distracts the mind. Only time tells the truth.

I really do hope thats the truth. (personal)

You tease.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

I really do hope thats the truth. (personal)

Maybe.
Experience is the best instructor.
No one truly has their own perception of understanding until they have their own personal experience.

Just to try and bring it back OT - Why is it that the perception is that judges have a tipple and chavs get wasted?
It is the same results, just more luxurious surroundings.

pinno

On the whole, I agree that the press do target the lower classes except people are forgetting the clamour of both Diana and Kate Middleton everywhere they went. Whilst the press were not printing defamatory stuff about them (probably on account of Royal solicitors), they hounded them. They were merciless.
Printing a picture of Kate Middleston's baps with a telephoto lens is an invasion of privacy that knows no bounds.

MountainMonster

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

pblakeney

MountainMonster wrote:

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

Caught!

The truly rich would never be so vulgar as to post such a comment.

ballysmate

MountainMonster wrote:

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

Trust a Yank to confuse money and class.

MountainMonster

Ballysmate wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

Trust a Yank to confuse money and class.

Bludclaart, I is igh class ennit. And I gotz moneys, more than you.

Peasant.

Go tend to your cows.

ballysmate

MountainMonster wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

Trust a Yank to confuse money and class.

Bludclaart, I is igh class ennit. And I gotz moneys, more than you.

Peasant.

Go tend to your cows.

I thought you would have realised from the guess the object thread that we cyclists have a penchant for sheep.

VTech

I think as cyclists you all spend on average as much as or more than a lot of people.
This is not a cheap game to be in.

MountainMonster

Ballysmate wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

Trust a Yank to confuse money and class.

Bludclaart, I is igh class ennit. And I gotz moneys, more than you.

Peasant.

Go tend to your cows.

I thought you would have realised from the guess the object thread that we cyclists have a penchant for sheep.

Is that because they are easier to grab hold of while 'riding' them if they haven't been shaved?

pinno

MountainMonster wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Are all you peasants still grumbling about us rich folk?

Trust a Yank to confuse money and class.

Bludclaart, I is igh class ennit. And I gotz moneys, more than you.

Peasant.

Go tend to your cows.

I thought you would have realised from the guess the object thread that we cyclists have a penchant for sheep.

Is that because they are easier to grab hold of while 'riding' them if they haven't been shaved?

You have to go off road to catch sheep. We leave that to the crudders. Personally, I used to keep mine chained to a lamp post (that was until a whole load of Welsh tourists descended on her thinking it was a leisure centre).

MountainMonster

HAHAHA!

DesB3rd

"Just to try and bring it back OT - Why is it that the perception is that judges have a tipple and chavs get wasted?
It is the same results, just more luxurious surroundings.

I'm pretty sure if after numerous excess snifters of white port the Lord Chancellor stripped to a pair of Lonsdale joggers (obviously keeping on his massive & very bling livery collar), vomited in the lobbies and made at the Senior Lord of Appeal with a broken bottle, we'd come view him in an alternative light. Keep leather armchairs and flock carpets as-is, that won't change a thing...

It an odd turn of events that the left of today is very prickly about the possible demonisation of the working class when prior to the 1960s there was very much a feeling that a minority among the poorer parts of the society who "let the side down" (criminals, drunks, prostitutes and anyone else who existed outside the massed ranks of industrial wage labour) and an understanding that these elements were a threat to the aspirations of the left not less than conventional privileged and reactionary elements.

pinno

DesB3rd wrote:

"Just to try and bring it back OT - Why is it that the perception is that judges have a tipple and chavs get wasted?
It is the same results, just more luxurious surroundings.

I'm pretty sure if after numerous excess snifters of white port the Lord Chancellor stripped to a pair of Lonsdale joggers (obviously keeping on his massive & very bling livery collar), vomited in the lobbies and made at the Senior Lord of Appeal with a broken bottle, we'd come view him in an alternative light. Keep leather armchairs and flock carpets as-is, that won't change a thing...

It an odd turn of events that the left of today is very prickly about the possible demonisation of the working class when prior to the 1960s there was very much a feeling that a minority among the poorer parts of the society who "let the side down" (criminals, drunks, prostitutes and anyone else who existed outside the massed ranks of industrial wage labour) and an understanding that these elements were a threat to the aspirations of the left not less than conventional privileged and reactionary elements.

Interesting perspective desB3rd and very articulate. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
Can you use your good prose to go off topic in an interesting way as it is mandatory round these parts?

pblakeney

DesB3rd wrote:

I'm pretty sure if after numerous excess snifters of white port the Lord Chancellor stripped to a pair of Lonsdale joggers (obviously keeping on his massive & very bling livery collar), vomited in the lobbies and made at the Senior Lord of Appeal with a broken bottle, we'd come view him in an alternative light.

You know what? I think you made that little ditty up but it does sound vaguely familiar.

tangled_metal

Forgive me if I am being boring here but isn't the "sober as a judge" phrase using the other meaning of sober than the alcohol related one? You know what I mean? It is a sober job, i.e. one which is serious and boring but requires a serious approach not a frivolous one. Being sober in this case is tantamount to be being called boring, serious or levelheaded. Or even a combination of all of them and more. It is not referring to the excessive imbibing of alcohol. Nice as that image of drunken judges fighting with broken bottles is.

Although IIRC one of the last serious cases of a notable personage being involved in violence in the palaces of Westminster was that good working class and Labour MP from somewhere in Scotland (sorry should have said former Labour MP as he resigned and left office in 2010 IIRC). Now isn't that a nice stereotype? If a drunken, working class Scot (also rags to riches union man and Labour MP) is not a stereotype I don't know what is! Rab C. Nesbitt anyone??

mm1

Long tradition of drunkeness in the Palace of Westminster e.g. Pitt the Younger vomiting behind the Speaker's before replying to a debate as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Asquith (among others) known for being blind drunk in the commons - Churchill wrote that "only the persistent freemasonry of the House of Commons prevents a scandal".

In my experience young barristers (admittedly in the 1980s) is that many are heroic drinkers, and its from their ranks that most of the judiciary and a significant proportion of our political class are drawn.

tangled_metal

I think we've reached a level of awareness of what the authorities/powers that be get up to such that trust has been severely eroded. Take police for example. In our family we have an immigrant who very nearly got "fitted up". A big publicly funded construction site got it's payroll robbed from the manager's car boot. It was the 50 or 60s. The managers pointed out our relative saying he was often loitering around. He was only on the beach looking for driftwood to make the coal n last longer, very hard times meant doing what you can. He got picked up by police without any arrest or caution or b anything. He did not know what happens but it became clear the cops had someone to nail for it and clear the case. The managers were upstanding members of community my relative was not even with residency yet. Any trouble he's kicked out.

Amway, serious times indeed. He got out of it by his English wife spoke to her brother, a high flying copper and ranking mason. He ended up with a ride home, apology and all official records linking him to that crime disappeared. The managers got a decent jail time and all well. No top cop in family then would have meant no family here now.

Another case was a police Subaru crashed into back of a mates car. It was stopped in filter lane at red light. On the scene the driver asked mate to admit a driving offence so he'd not "get a letter". Some such phrase which meant he'd be officially disciplined and due to other things he would lose job. My mate got pulled in for questioning several times into the station despite being signed off sick with major whiplash and other strains in muscles down the torso. Could barely walk but still had to go in. Each time she " bumped into " the cop who increasingly desperate ended up practically begging for that lie. All that after the investigating officer at the accident site saying it was a clear case. My mate was in neutral with handbrake n on. The car was hit so hard it got shunted across the junction. No skid marks, police driver was looking in other direction, and he just drove on as he had a call. Only got a bit further and had to stop anyway.

I've always been a firm respecter of the police, judges, barristers and other officials. After my mates incident with the bent cop I got told about the incident within my family. Brought me a sense of shock that means I see these same public servants as untrustworthy first until I have good reason to trust them. With other more public police malpractice with feelings the police got off with it no wonder ppl don't trust them. Look at Hillsborough for example.

Ppl expect press to commit acts that are with low ethics such as these fake sheik cases, but to get lazy or bent cops to take selective evidence to prosecutors who then take it further only to be thrown out by the judge? Well, it does not seem right to me. The system does seem to have worked. However with a poster on the first page, who is a cop, made comments that seem to imply a biased thinking in the head of at least that thinking. Might be naive but do police still work on picking a "guilty" person then finding evidence to support it? That thinking is very 50s or 60s to me (like my relative encountered).

mm1

Plod only there to protect themselves and our feudal overlords.