Sunday 'best' bike, versus commuter - speed difference??

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 11,766
edited July 2014 in Commuting chat
Just idle thoughts really, but as I have been slovenly with building my CR1, I have been busy training and riding on my winter/commuter bike.
A Marin Highway One, converted to drop bars by the previous owner.
It's a good bike, though not the lightest, Alu main frame, carbon rear triangle and forks, aluseapost, bars and stem, and is fitted with SKS guards.
Running Shimano R550 wheels with 23mm tyres, and it's equipped with 105 10spd.

So yesterday I went out and covered a 40 mile route at an average speed of 16.5mph, which although not amazing, is very fast for me!

So I am wondering if I should prepare myself for either an improvement, or no improvement at all once the new bike is ready, or will it/the placebo effect make an actual difference do you think?

The new bike will have an Ultegra 6800 groupset, and Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels with Michelin Pro Race 4 tyres, and will have carbon seatpost, stem and bars.

Interested to hear your opinions, or actual findings in relation to similar bike differences.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18
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Comments

  • Kieran_Burns
    Kieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    12 mile commute on the Felt (CX bike in commuting guise including 'guards) somewhere between 42-45 mins. Occasionally a little quicker.

    Same commute on the Madone (4.5 with upgraded Ultegra / Dura Ace groupset) always sub 40 min and PB of 36 mins

    Generally cruise about 2 mph quicker on the Madone. However on the longer rides there is not a huge difference in overall times... my 100 mile sportives are generally around 6 hours on the Madone
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • daveski12
    daveski12 Posts: 158
    Feel much faster on my nice bike. Better groupset (Sora on commuter, Dura-Ace on the nice one), better wheels, lighter frame make me feel awesome.

    Shame I crashed it and cracked the frame really.
  • Kieran_Burns
    Kieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    I'd like to point out at this juncture that Daveski still passes me whatever bike I'm riding...
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    You'll notice some difference. But not a massive amount. I dont between my two and one is much heavier than the other.

    My legs are still the same regardless of the the bike.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,766
    Generally cruise about 2 mph quicker on the Madone. However on the longer rides there is not a huge difference in overall times... my 100 mile sportives are generally around 6 hours on the Madone

    Interesting......
    rubertoe wrote:
    You'll notice some difference. But not a massive amount. I dont between my two and one is much heavier than the other.

    My legs are still the same regardless of the the bike.

    Well indeed, this was what I was thinking, at the end of the day, on the flat, if a bike has wheels, it shouldn't really make much difference, though I would imagine going up hills you might notice some difference.

    Wondering if the placebo 'nice shiny (Or Matte in this case) new speedy bike' syndrome may have some impact though, but I guess even that wears off after time.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • Widgey
    Widgey Posts: 157
    According to veloviewer there is 0.4 mph difference between my Wet and Dry bikes - another name for best and commuter. The best is faster but has done near enough half the time and distance and only comes out when its nice so weather conditions are very different. Although it seems 2/3rds of my top ten strava times are set on the best.

    I figure I just tend to work harder on the commuter, even if it weighs more, has 28s, disc brakes, mudguards, bigger frame.
  • the_fuggler
    the_fuggler Posts: 1,228
    It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!
    FCN 3 / 4
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,766
    It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

    This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

    I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    I'm a couple of MPH quicker on my best bike, although it's really hard to tell accurately when comparing commuter ride. I think some of the difference is due to the best bike being much lighter although as a percentage of the total rider + bike weight it isn't a lot, some of it I'm fairly certain due to geometry as being lower at the front means I'm more aero riding it. However, I think the biggest difference comes from the confidence and thrill the best bike gives me when riding it fast.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • daveski12
    daveski12 Posts: 158
    Just checked Veloviewer, long term average on the my every day bike is 17mph and my nice bike is 17.2mph.

    The nice bike has done more climbing per mile though
  • the_fuggler
    the_fuggler Posts: 1,228
    Daniel B wrote:
    It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

    This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

    I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

    My testing ground was Reading and West Berkshire, so it should be pretty similar for you!
    FCN 3 / 4
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,766
    Daniel B wrote:
    It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

    This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

    I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

    My testing ground was Reading and West Berkshire, so it should be pretty similar for you!

    Excellent, I am Newbury way, and used to commute from here to Reading at my previous job.
    Lovely roads around here imho.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,062
    The biggest difference for me is ride comfort and weight on climbing.

    Another big surprise was what a difference carbon soled shoes seem to make vs my usual spesh plastic.
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • gbsahne001
    gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    usually average 19mph on the good bike over 50 miles, whereas the commuter is 17mph over a similar distance but the commuter is usually panniered up and weighs about 5kg heavier than the good bike
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    I don't have the Equilibrium commuter anymore, but I averaged 1 - 2 mph faster on the CR1 on the commute. Acceleration was noticeably improved also. I've yet to beat my college road PB that I set on the Equilibrium, however, but I was a good few kilos lighter then. It just goes to show, where climbing's concerned, it's not about the bike (and EPO helps).

    The biggest difference is feel and, trust me, you'll love it.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,766
    Thanks chaps,

    all positive stuff :D

    My first real cycling shoes were some bargain bin carbon soled Diadora's off of ebay, so that's all I've known, and very good they are too.

    Bought a swathe of them when CRC had offers on in the last year, 2 road pairs, and 2 mtb pairs, and also have some bright yellow Mavic Fury's destined for use with the CR1 :-)
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • the_fuggler
    the_fuggler Posts: 1,228
    Daniel B wrote:
    Daniel B wrote:
    It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

    This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

    I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

    My testing ground was Reading and West Berkshire, so it should be pretty similar for you!

    Excellent, I am Newbury way, and used to commute from here to Reading at my previous job.
    Lovely roads around here imho.

    Indeed. Although I used to deliver papers up part of Streatley Hill. That was less fun!
    FCN 3 / 4
  • mr_evil
    mr_evil Posts: 234
    Any difference will come from either
    • Rolling resistance (a couple of mph at most diffrence between terrible and excellent tyres)
    • Aerodynamics (a few mph if the positions are very different, but not a lot if they are similar).
    Weight makes a little difference on hills, but otherwise the difference beteen the bikes themselves is likely to be too small to notice.
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    Mr Evil wrote:
    Any difference will come from either
    • Rolling resistance (a couple of mph at most diffrence between terrible and excellent tyres)
    • Aerodynamics (a few mph if the positions are very different, but not a lot if they are similar).
    Weight makes a little difference on hills, but otherwise the difference beteen the bikes themselves is likely to be too small to notice.

    Apart from when it isn't. :)
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    As said before, it's variable and depends on many factors.

    All I can say is that I notice an appreciable difference between my commuter (Specialized Tricross Sport with rack, loaded pannier and mudguards, 32mm tyres) and my "Sunday best" bike (Scott CR1 Team, 22mm tyres). On the same stretch of flattish road, the typical difference in speed I see is around 2-3mph I reckon. But most of that might just be down to the load, which is significantly higher when I'm commuting.

    YMMV
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    My Sunday Bike WAS my Commuting Bike!

    Well, it isn't anymore. I'm using the Paddy Wagon SS in Amsterdam (which is already about twice as fast as the local steeds). I've found if I use the Foil, I start passing the mopeds and that's a risky game as they simply don't expect a bike to be there - I've nearly been taken out a couple of times by mopeds making sudden, unsignalled, turns as I've been about to pass them :shock:

    It's not really fair to compare the Foil to the SS. When I rode the CXer, I was probably 1-2 mph quicker on my carbon Cayo.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    The hour record with a fixed gear basic bike is roughly 50 Km... the record with the most advanced possible track TT machines was 56 Km. My guess is that a modern race bike with 50 mm deep rims and normal drop bars would be around 51-52... so there you go 1 mph give or take if your commuter is in good shape and running fast tyres

    If your commute involve lots of stop and go the difference is probably negligible
    left the forum March 2023
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    For me, the difference between a carbon road bike and an MTB (steel hard tail) with slicks is about 10 minutes an hour on the commute. Obviously the difference between the carbon bike and a road oriented commuter would be far less.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • daddy0
    daddy0 Posts: 686
    I reckon the main difference between my good (carbon) bike and wet (alu) commuter is the wheels. Weight is 8kg vs 10kg which I think only makes a difference when I'm going for KOMs up steep gradients.

    But I am definitely faster on the best bike, and I think its between 3 and 5kmph. But its hard to say as my legs and the wind have more effect on speed than the bike I'm riding.

    With that in mind...
    I rode a 10 mile TT on the wet bike a month ago, I managed it in 25:56 (the best bike was in the shop being fixed). I'm riding the same TT course tonight on the best bike, will let you know the difference when I get home. Conditions were similar to today and I have done pretty much the same prep (shaved my legs). So results should be as scientific as I can get!
  • mr_evil
    mr_evil Posts: 234
    Daddy0 wrote:
    ...So results should be as scientific as I can get!
    If you want to be even more scientific, use the same tyres at the same pressure, wear the same clothes, and try to get into the same position on the bike.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Mr Evil wrote:
    Daddy0 wrote:
    ...So results should be as scientific as I can get!
    If you want to be even more scientific, use the same tyres at the same pressure, wear the same clothes, and try to get into the same position on the bike.

    That's about the size of it. The comparison I would give is to maintain my normal road bike cruising speed on my XC mountain bike with knobbly tyres on road is very hard work due to the ride position, extra grip and front suspension. This is wearing the same clothing. Either way I enjoy riding both bikes. Chose the right bike for the conditions setup the way you prefer.
  • dav1
    dav1 Posts: 1,298
    On the open road my best bike is anywhere from 1-5 mph faster than my winter geared bike or fixie.

    It sounds a lot BUT when i'm on my best bike I am usually on a mission (fast 50, TT, circuit race...) so that is a big factor as well.

    My best bike is certainly faster though, the gains in reality over an identical effort are quite small but do add up and make me feel more like giving it that extra few percent of my effort as well.

    If I take it out for a commute it make sod all difference. most if not all of the gains are lost in traffic whilst carrying a backpack.
    Giant TCR advanced 2 (Summer/race)
    Merlin single malt fixie (Commuter/winter/training)
    Trek superfly 7 (Summer XC)
    Giant Yukon singlespeed conversion (winter MTB/Ice/snow)

    Carrera virtuoso - RIP
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Dav1 wrote:
    On the open road my best bike is anywhere from 1-5 mph faster than my winter geared bike or fixie. It sounds a lot BUT when i'm on my best bike I am usually on a mission (fast 50, TT, circuit race...) so that is a big factor as well.

    So what you actually mean is that your are 1-5mph faster on your best bike. I think you need to take most of the credit for the extra pace!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    I could try to claim the biggest difference by cheating and comparing the Volagi with my MTB shod with Ice Spikers - but I think that kinda misses the point of the OP's thread :wink:
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • dav1
    dav1 Posts: 1,298
    Rolf F wrote:
    Dav1 wrote:
    On the open road my best bike is anywhere from 1-5 mph faster than my winter geared bike or fixie. It sounds a lot BUT when i'm on my best bike I am usually on a mission (fast 50, TT, circuit race...) so that is a big factor as well.

    So what you actually mean is that your are 1-5mph faster on your best bike. I think you need to take most of the credit for the extra pace!

    Yeah I know its an extreme difference. Point is I don't stick areobars on my commuter and ride it full gas for a PR over a 10 mile TT. I really do approach the a ride very differently on my best bike though, which is most of the reason I am faster on it.
    Giant TCR advanced 2 (Summer/race)
    Merlin single malt fixie (Commuter/winter/training)
    Trek superfly 7 (Summer XC)
    Giant Yukon singlespeed conversion (winter MTB/Ice/snow)

    Carrera virtuoso - RIP