Sunday 'best' bike, versus commuter - speed difference??

daniel_b

Just idle thoughts really, but as I have been slovenly with building my CR1, I have been busy training and riding on my winter/commuter bike.
A Marin Highway One, converted to drop bars by the previous owner.
It's a good bike, though not the lightest, Alu main frame, carbon rear triangle and forks, aluseapost, bars and stem, and is fitted with SKS guards.
Running Shimano R550 wheels with 23mm tyres, and it's equipped with 105 10spd.

So yesterday I went out and covered a 40 mile route at an average speed of 16.5mph, which although not amazing, is very fast for me!

So I am wondering if I should prepare myself for either an improvement, or no improvement at all once the new bike is ready, or will it/the placebo effect make an actual difference do you think?

The new bike will have an Ultegra 6800 groupset, and Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels with Michelin Pro Race 4 tyres, and will have carbon seatpost, stem and bars.

Interested to hear your opinions, or actual findings in relation to similar bike differences.

Kieran_Burns

12 mile commute on the Felt (CX bike in commuting guise including 'guards) somewhere between 42-45 mins. Occasionally a little quicker.

Same commute on the Madone (4.5 with upgraded Ultegra / Dura Ace groupset) always sub 40 min and PB of 36 mins

Generally cruise about 2 mph quicker on the Madone. However on the longer rides there is not a huge difference in overall times... my 100 mile sportives are generally around 6 hours on the Madone

daveski12

Feel much faster on my nice bike. Better groupset (Sora on commuter, Dura-Ace on the nice one), better wheels, lighter frame make me feel awesome.

Shame I crashed it and cracked the frame really.

Kieran_Burns

I'd like to point out at this juncture that Daveski still passes me whatever bike I'm riding...

rubertoe

You'll notice some difference. But not a massive amount. I dont between my two and one is much heavier than the other.

My legs are still the same regardless of the the bike.

daniel_b

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Generally cruise about 2 mph quicker on the Madone. However on the longer rides there is not a huge difference in overall times... my 100 mile sportives are generally around 6 hours on the Madone

Interesting......

rubertoe wrote:

You'll notice some difference. But not a massive amount. I dont between my two and one is much heavier than the other.

My legs are still the same regardless of the the bike.

Well indeed, this was what I was thinking, at the end of the day, on the flat, if a bike has wheels, it shouldn't really make much difference, though I would imagine going up hills you might notice some difference.

Wondering if the placebo 'nice shiny (Or Matte in this case) new speedy bike' syndrome may have some impact though, but I guess even that wears off after time.

Widgey

According to veloviewer there is 0.4 mph difference between my Wet and Dry bikes - another name for best and commuter. The best is faster but has done near enough half the time and distance and only comes out when its nice so weather conditions are very different. Although it seems 2/3rds of my top ten strava times are set on the best.

I figure I just tend to work harder on the commuter, even if it weighs more, has 28s, disc brakes, mudguards, bigger frame.

the_fuggler

It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

daniel_b

The Fuggler wrote:

It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

sketchley

I'm a couple of MPH quicker on my best bike, although it's really hard to tell accurately when comparing commuter ride. I think some of the difference is due to the best bike being much lighter although as a percentage of the total rider + bike weight it isn't a lot, some of it I'm fairly certain due to geometry as being lower at the front means I'm more aero riding it. However, I think the biggest difference comes from the confidence and thrill the best bike gives me when riding it fast.

daveski12

Just checked Veloviewer, long term average on the my every day bike is 17mph and my nice bike is 17.2mph.

The nice bike has done more climbing per mile though

the_fuggler

Daniel B wrote:

The Fuggler wrote:

It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

My testing ground was Reading and West Berkshire, so it should be pretty similar for you!

daniel_b

The Fuggler wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

The Fuggler wrote:

It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

My testing ground was Reading and West Berkshire, so it should be pretty similar for you!

Excellent, I am Newbury way, and used to commute from here to Reading at my previous job.
Lovely roads around here imho.

itboffin

The biggest difference for me is ride comfort and weight on climbing.

Another big surprise was what a difference carbon soled shoes seem to make vs my usual spesh plastic.

gbsahne001

usually average 19mph on the good bike over 50 miles, whereas the commuter is 17mph over a similar distance but the commuter is usually panniered up and weighs about 5kg heavier than the good bike

jonny_trousers

I don't have the Equilibrium commuter anymore, but I averaged 1 - 2 mph faster on the CR1 on the commute. Acceleration was noticeably improved also. I've yet to beat my college road PB that I set on the Equilibrium, however, but I was a good few kilos lighter then. It just goes to show, where climbing's concerned, it's not about the bike (and EPO helps).

The biggest difference is feel and, trust me, you'll love it.

daniel_b

Thanks chaps,

all positive stuff

My first real cycling shoes were some bargain bin carbon soled Diadora's off of ebay, so that's all I've known, and very good they are too.

Bought a swathe of them when CRC had offers on in the last year, 2 road pairs, and 2 mtb pairs, and also have some bright yellow Mavic Fury's destined for use with the CR1 :-)

the_fuggler

Daniel B wrote:

The Fuggler wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

The Fuggler wrote:

It was about 1mph difference between the commuter and the best bike for me. Just the best bike left now...!

This is what I am hoping for - would love to be able to consistently achieve an average of around 17/18mph.

I appreciate I need to do more training and riding though!

My testing ground was Reading and West Berkshire, so it should be pretty similar for you!

Excellent, I am Newbury way, and used to commute from here to Reading at my previous job.
Lovely roads around here imho.

Indeed. Although I used to deliver papers up part of Streatley Hill. That was less fun!

mr_evil

Any difference will come from either

• Rolling resistance (a couple of mph at most diffrence between terrible and excellent tyres)
• Aerodynamics (a few mph if the positions are very different, but not a lot if they are similar).

Weight makes a little difference on hills, but otherwise the difference beteen the bikes themselves is likely to be too small to notice.

jonny_trousers

Mr Evil wrote:

Any difference will come from either

• Rolling resistance (a couple of mph at most diffrence between terrible and excellent tyres)
• Aerodynamics (a few mph if the positions are very different, but not a lot if they are similar).

Weight makes a little difference on hills, but otherwise the difference beteen the bikes themselves is likely to be too small to notice.

Apart from when it isn't.

Agent57

As said before, it's variable and depends on many factors.

All I can say is that I notice an appreciable difference between my commuter (Specialized Tricross Sport with rack, loaded pannier and mudguards, 32mm tyres) and my "Sunday best" bike (Scott CR1 Team, 22mm tyres). On the same stretch of flattish road, the typical difference in speed I see is around 2-3mph I reckon. But most of that might just be down to the load, which is significantly higher when I'm commuting.

YMMV

meanredspider

My Sunday Bike WAS my Commuting Bike!

Well, it isn't anymore. I'm using the Paddy Wagon SS in Amsterdam (which is already about twice as fast as the local steeds). I've found if I use the Foil, I start passing the mopeds and that's a risky game as they simply don't expect a bike to be there - I've nearly been taken out a couple of times by mopeds making sudden, unsignalled, turns as I've been about to pass them :shock:

It's not really fair to compare the Foil to the SS. When I rode the CXer, I was probably 1-2 mph quicker on my carbon Cayo.

ugo.santalucia

The hour record with a fixed gear basic bike is roughly 50 Km... the record with the most advanced possible track TT machines was 56 Km. My guess is that a modern race bike with 50 mm deep rims and normal drop bars would be around 51-52... so there you go 1 mph give or take if your commuter is in good shape and running fast tyres

If your commute involve lots of stop and go the difference is probably negligible

rolf_f

For me, the difference between a carbon road bike and an MTB (steel hard tail) with slicks is about 10 minutes an hour on the commute. Obviously the difference between the carbon bike and a road oriented commuter would be far less.

daddy0

I reckon the main difference between my good (carbon) bike and wet (alu) commuter is the wheels. Weight is 8kg vs 10kg which I think only makes a difference when I'm going for KOMs up steep gradients.

But I am definitely faster on the best bike, and I think its between 3 and 5kmph. But its hard to say as my legs and the wind have more effect on speed than the bike I'm riding.

With that in mind...
I rode a 10 mile TT on the wet bike a month ago, I managed it in 25:56 (the best bike was in the shop being fixed). I'm riding the same TT course tonight on the best bike, will let you know the difference when I get home. Conditions were similar to today and I have done pretty much the same prep (shaved my legs). So results should be as scientific as I can get!

mr_evil

Daddy0 wrote:

...So results should be as scientific as I can get!

If you want to be even more scientific, use the same tyres at the same pressure, wear the same clothes, and try to get into the same position on the bike.

kajjal

Mr Evil wrote:

Daddy0 wrote:

...So results should be as scientific as I can get!

If you want to be even more scientific, use the same tyres at the same pressure, wear the same clothes, and try to get into the same position on the bike.

That's about the size of it. The comparison I would give is to maintain my normal road bike cruising speed on my XC mountain bike with knobbly tyres on road is very hard work due to the ride position, extra grip and front suspension. This is wearing the same clothing. Either way I enjoy riding both bikes. Chose the right bike for the conditions setup the way you prefer.

dav1

On the open road my best bike is anywhere from 1-5 mph faster than my winter geared bike or fixie.

It sounds a lot BUT when i'm on my best bike I am usually on a mission (fast 50, TT, circuit race...) so that is a big factor as well.

My best bike is certainly faster though, the gains in reality over an identical effort are quite small but do add up and make me feel more like giving it that extra few percent of my effort as well.

If I take it out for a commute it make sod all difference. most if not all of the gains are lost in traffic whilst carrying a backpack.

rolf_f

Dav1 wrote:

On the open road my best bike is anywhere from 1-5 mph faster than my winter geared bike or fixie. It sounds a lot BUT when i'm on my best bike I am usually on a mission (fast 50, TT, circuit race...) so that is a big factor as well.

So what you actually mean is that your are 1-5mph faster on your best bike. I think you need to take most of the credit for the extra pace!

meanredspider

I could try to claim the biggest difference by cheating and comparing the Volagi with my MTB shod with Ice Spikers - but I think that kinda misses the point of the OP's thread

dav1

Rolf F wrote:

Dav1 wrote:

On the open road my best bike is anywhere from 1-5 mph faster than my winter geared bike or fixie. It sounds a lot BUT when i'm on my best bike I am usually on a mission (fast 50, TT, circuit race...) so that is a big factor as well.

So what you actually mean is that your are 1-5mph faster on your best bike. I think you need to take most of the credit for the extra pace!

Yeah I know its an extreme difference. Point is I don't stick areobars on my commuter and ride it full gas for a PR over a 10 mile TT. I really do approach the a ride very differently on my best bike though, which is most of the reason I am faster on it.