TDF2015. Time for a Rouleur's Tour

DeadCalm

Above The Cows wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

This would be the Sagan, Gerrans, Kwiatkowski Tour.

And why not?

But actually, it would be way more complex and tactical than that. With a carefully designed parcours, the number of possible winners would be vastly increased, and so the effort required to keep the break in check throughout the entire three weeks would be immense and certainly beyond the team that Cannondale would be able to put out. I think tactically it would be fascinating and would potentially make for some incredibly exciting racing.

Or some incredibly boring racing as no one would be able to control anything and so teams just ride to survive and effectively neutralise every stage. It would be like asking them to do a classic every day, but you won't get the excitement of the classics because people can't race like its a classic every day.

We have various one week chipper races for rouleurs, Tour Down Under, Tour of Britain and the Tour of The Benelux Road Furniture. A GT should be a little different in my opinion.

Except all those races are, as you say over a week and being chippers, attract a lower quality field. The dynamics over three weeks with all the top rouleurs present would be quite different and in my opinion rather interesting.

In my opinion it would make an interesting change to see riders from Europcar, Belkin, BMC, Garmin, OPQS, IAM, Cannondale, etc. challenging for GC rather than a race where, barring incidents, you can predict the top 3 before a stage has been run.

FJS

knedlicky wrote:

FJS wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I'd like to see more challenging non mountain stages,similar to the Sheffield stage or the cobbles They are heading for Brittany next year so the potential for a lumpy first week is there. That seems to be the way they are going in recent years, not so scared of gaps on GC early on and long may it continue.

Dont forget the wind. Stge 2 next year will finish in Zeeland, echelons guaranteed

Zeeland = Stage 1, I think, stage starting in Utrecht (after prologue there the day before).

Stage 2 supposedly begins in Antwerp, which might allow including a few of the easier cobbled roads, like those in the Scheldepreis.

(AdH next year too)

No. The TT through Utrecht is 13 km, so too long for a prologue, and will be stage 1. The Sunday stage to Zeeland is stage 2. http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2014/us/g ... -2015.html. The 3rd stage on Monday starts in Antwerp. Would be ideal for a lovely Flemish cobbled climbs stage and Roubaix cobbles finish, but not sure they're going down tht route again next year...

takethehighroad

My dream stage is a Mountain Time Trial that starts in Bedoin and ends in Carpentras, going over Ventoux.

kleinstroker

I would love to see less pure flat stages and more all rounder type stages, the pure sprinters like Kittel, Cav and Greipel etc should have less chance to show off IMO.

frisbee

It won't be a rouler's tour though, the top riders aren't pure climbers or TTers, they are the riders who can use their energy most efficiently over 3 weeks.

Nibali managed a Sagan style stage win, Sagan didn't...

rick_chasey

We all know I'd like a week long Tour that goes like this.

Stage 1. Scheldeprijs
Stage 2. Gent Wevelgem
Stage 3. Het Volk
stage 4: E3
Stage 5: Ronde
Stage 6. Roubaix

Would probably be boring, but I'd bloody love it anyway.

pinno

If we had a Rouleurs tour, there would be no breakaways as all the big teams would charge them down such would their desire to dominate the whole tour.
The mountains at least provide contrast and tired legs. How many breakaways succeed after a mountain stage? More than at any other time and quite frankly, the sprint finishes bore the sh1t out of me.
How about we have the mountains but no MTF's? It would still hand it to the rouleurs.

Lanterne_Rogue

RichN95 wrote:

Armstrong may have been high as a kite, but there was some panache and tactical progression there at least. (Althought he 60k TTTs didn't help matters). .

If he'd grown a handlebar moustache and had a sniggering dog as a sidekick, I reckon I could have just about forgiven him - those tours were always interesting in their machinations, even if you knew (or even suspected) that he was taking the wee-wee.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there's never a boring tour - you just sometimes have to look further to find your entertainment. I suspect that having nothing but lumpy stages would still favour the usual suspects - they'd simply mark each other out of it and have a decisive ITT - and time bonuses would lead to negative racing as breaks were endlessly shut down so that the GC riders could hoover up the bonuses in a final sprint. The lumpy stages Prudhomme throws in at the moment are exciting because the GC candidates don't mind losing a few seconds here and there - losing thirty seconds, plus the bonus, totally changes the tactical considerations.

kleinstroker

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

Compare this years winners time of just over 86 hrs with those in the past and be amazed..



Stages 3 and 10 looked great

Stage 3: Thursday, June 24, Metz - Dunkerque, 433 km

Gustaaf Van Slembrouck: 17hr 11min 14sec
Albert De Jonghe s.t.
Adelin Benoît @ 10min 45sec
Georges Cuvelier s.t.
Théophile Beeckman s.t.
Odile Taillieu s.t.
Bartolomeo Aymo s.t.
Camille Van de Casteele @ 12min 22sec
Nicolas Frantz s.t.
Léon Devos s.t.

Stage 10: Tuesday, July 6, Bayonne - Luchon, 326 km

Major ascents: Aubisque, Tourmalet, Aspin, Peyresourde

Lucien Buysse: 17hr 12min 4sec
Bartolomeo Aymo @ 25min 48sec
Léon Devos @ 29min 49sec
Théophile Beeckman @ 40min
Nicolas Frantz @ 42min 21sec
Léon Parmentier @ 46min 47sec
Félix Sellier @ 47min 44sec
Odile Taillieu @ 48min 21sec
Raymond Englebert @ 51min 44sec
Jan Mertens @ 53min 34sec

Would love to see what the best modern cyclists might make of that!!

rick_chasey

Be f*cking boring to watch live though.

RichN95.

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

Compare this years winners time of just over 86 hrs with those in the past and be amazed..

---

Would love to see what the best modern cyclists might make of that!!

Just watch Race Across America. Basically the same thing.

kleinstroker

So it's all about the TV Coverage I suppose. Shame that.

pinno

So technology has upped the average speeds no end and I agree with the above posts. 4 hour stages give half an hour or so are pants.
Pretty sure that some of the flat stages in the early 80'/90's were very long. I think Richard Virenque won a flat stage in the wet into Bordeaux? that was very long.
So what about TV coverage, they can always start the stage earlier in the day.

RichN95.

pinarello001 wrote:

So what about TV coverage

That's where the money comes from. And it's what's important to sponsors. 7

I'd rather go back to the olden days of split stages. Two 90km flat stages rather than one 230km one.

RoadPainter

How about:
week 1:
Grand depart in Devon & Cornwall.
Prologue TT in Marazion with views of St Michael's Mount.
Stage 1 around Land's End and hilly finish on Bodmin Moor.
Stage 2 to Dartmoor, finish on Plymouth Hoe after a lap around Plympton bypass (Tour nod to history)
Stages 3-8 meander down to Pyrenees.
2nd week:
Mon rest day
3 days in Pyrenees.
Friday rolling nip across towards Alps.
Alps weekend.
3rd week:
Monday rest day
Tuesday crazy big mountains (Izoard, Galibier, Glandon, Alpe MTF)
Weds-Fri 3 flat stages heading up to NE France
Sat cobbles decider
Sun Paris.

takethehighroad

I do think the idea of a cobbles stage at the end of the Tour is an interesting one, and it would change the racing with everyone bearing it in mind.

DeVlaeminck

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

Compare this years winners time of just over 86 hrs with those in the past and be amazed..



Stages 3 and 10 looked great

Stage 3: Thursday, June 24, Metz - Dunkerque, 433 km

Gustaaf Van Slembrouck: 17hr 11min 14sec
Albert De Jonghe s.t.
Adelin Benoît @ 10min 45sec
Georges Cuvelier s.t.
Théophile Beeckman s.t.
Odile Taillieu s.t.
Bartolomeo Aymo s.t.
Camille Van de Casteele @ 12min 22sec
Nicolas Frantz s.t.
Léon Devos s.t.

Stage 10: Tuesday, July 6, Bayonne - Luchon, 326 km

Major ascents: Aubisque, Tourmalet, Aspin, Peyresourde

Would love to see what the best modern cyclists might make of that!!

I can't find the book I've got with the stats but I was looking at the lengths of the grand tours over time last week and it's interesting how the Tour has been getting shorter while the Giro has always been around the same length in terms of time. Whether that was over as many stages I don't know.

A bit more variety in the stages would be good. Is that Pyrenean stage above the classic Circle of Death ? I think they did that relatively recently in 2010 so they can throw in monsters occasionally. I like the look of the Izoard,Galibier via the Lautaret, Glandon, Alpe stage above too but why give them a rest day before ! I'd keep the overall distance similar to now but have more shorter stages and some longer and harder ones than they typically have now.

takethehighroad

There was a 300k stage in 1990!

And has been pointed out recentyl, the 87 Tour was a brute! 25 stages!

RichN95.

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

And has been pointed out recentyl, the 87 Tour was a brute! 25 stages!

With an 87km Time Trial

bobmcstuff

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

I do think the idea of a cobbles stage at the end of the Tour is an interesting one, and it would change the racing with everyone bearing it in mind.

I don't think they would do that though - imagine this year if Nibali had crashed out the day before Paris with a 7+ minute lead in the GC... It would have gifted Peraud the win despite Nibali being miles ahead. I know that would be pretty exciting for us but I just don't see ASO wanting to take that risk.

Pross

I would have a combined 3 days in the Alps and Pyrenees (at the end of the race) and then more stages in the Vosges / Massif Central / Ardennes etc. much like the Planche and Sheffield stages this year. Loads of up and down but keeping plenty of riders in contention so that the 'traditional' GC contenders have to race hard over the last few days with their teams knackered.

Pross

Oh, and a stage finish up the cobbled hill in Dinan

above_the_cows

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

And see a return of drugs?

pinno

RichN95 wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

So what about TV coverage

That's where the money comes from. And it's what's important to sponsors. 7

I'd rather go back to the olden days of split stages. Two 90km flat stages rather than one 230km one.

Wrong end of the stick. Eurosport TV coverage starts say 2 hours before the finish. Makes no difference if the stage is 7 hours long or 5 hours - the coverage will still be there.

DeVlaeminck

Above The Cows wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

And see a return of drugs?

As someone else once said the Olympic 100 metres is once every 4 years and lasts 10 seconds yet there is as much doping in that as cycling. Making it tougher or making it less tough will have no impact on doping because they aren't doping just so they can finish they are doping to be better than the next rider.

mfin

It's a shame there's only the Tour de France, if only there were other races then maybe some of those could be different to watch.

ben@31

They should have a stage through a rough council estate.

10 points for winning a punch up with a chav
7 points for saying a come back to the abuse they shout and totally perplexes them
5 points for dodging bottles of Buckfast thrown
2 points for not getting your bike nicked
1 point sprint section against a rabies riddled mongrel dog that likes to chase after your bike
-1 point for every can of special brew in their bottle cage or if the saddle is stupidly too low.

You could put an ankle tag on each rider and deduct points if they finish after the curfew time.

Give Segan an ASBO every time he pops a wheelie down the high street.

The stage winner gets the Burberry Jersey.

Paulie W

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

And see a return of drugs?

As someone else once said the Olympic 100 metres is once every 4 years and lasts 10 seconds yet there is as much doping in that as cycling. Making it tougher or making it less tough will have no impact on doping because they aren't doping just so they can finish they are doping to be better than the next rider.

Doping in cycling has its origins in riders just trying to survive, to dull the pain of riding for ridiculous distances and it could be argued that even in the 90s when doping turned also-rans into winners for many it was still just about keeping up, doing your job and getting to the end.

mike6

Paulie W wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

And see a return of drugs?

As someone else once said the Olympic 100 metres is once every 4 years and lasts 10 seconds yet there is as much doping in that as cycling. Making it tougher or making it less tough will have no impact on doping because they aren't doping just so they can finish they are doping to be better than the next rider.

Doping in cycling has its origins in riders just trying to survive, to dull the pain of riding for ridiculous distances and it could be argued that even in the 90s when doping turned also-rans into winners for many it was still just about keeping up, doing your job and getting to the end.

I enjoyed every stage of this years Tour, always something going on. Anyone who says they know the first three before it even starts must have a great time at the bookies.
Who took Nibali to win before it started? and who took him to win by over 7 minutes with two Frenchmen on the podium?

I did not know Froome was going to win last year, he was good in 2012 but had never been a team leader at a GT before so I had no idea if he had the nouse to take it on. Who knew for certain that Wiggins would win? no one. During a three week race almost anything can and does go wrong, from crashes, mechanicals, weather, illness, cobbles, fatigue, a new star emerging (no not that one). So to say the Tour is predictable is just wrong. As someone pointed out earlier, we have had a different winner every year, how predictable was that?

The_Boy

mike6 wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Seems the TDF has just been getting easier and easier as time goes on, it bears virtually no resemblance to the gruelling monster tour it once was, so I would love to see it become a lot harder than it is at present.

And see a return of drugs?

As someone else once said the Olympic 100 metres is once every 4 years and lasts 10 seconds yet there is as much doping in that as cycling. Making it tougher or making it less tough will have no impact on doping because they aren't doping just so they can finish they are doping to be better than the next rider.

Doping in cycling has its origins in riders just trying to survive, to dull the pain of riding for ridiculous distances and it could be argued that even in the 90s when doping turned also-rans into winners for many it was still just about keeping up, doing your job and getting to the end.

Who took Nibali to win before it started? and who took him to win by over 7 minutes with two Frenchmen on the podium?

Didn't back Nibali, but was on Peraud weeks before the start @ 251.00. Also took Pinot in-running @ 301.00.

Didn't do so good trying to pick stage winners though.