Wiggone!!
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^There are many versions of this.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Wonder does he regret not having a go at the World's TT in the autumn of 2012
Aside from the obvious benefit of what was a likely Rainbow jersey given the year Martin was having, it would have also meant less time 'on the beer' before the 2013 season“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Sky PR machine? LOL, it's not a very good one - their PR is crap!BenderRodriguez wrote:ddraver wrote:How about you be honest with what you posted before Bender?
To be honest, I slightly changed the emphasis in my earlier post in order to avoid provoking an unproductive 'debate' about how Sky achieves their results. Not that it would be much of a debate given that on such a Brit / 'Sky fan' dominated forum such as this, most people are willing to uncritically swallow almost anything Brailsford and the rest of the Sky PR machine comes out with!
Whatever, suffice to say that I have my doubts that the successes of Wiggins, Froome and co. have much to do with any special 'training plan' they follow. As such it probably hardly matters if Wiggins prepares for the World championships by way of the racing programme that Brailsford has laid out for him in an apparent attempt to keep him as far away as possible from Froome.0 -
She hates the road - loves the track. Rides road only cos she has to. She has said this time and time again.Serious Cat wrote:Im so glad laura trott has switched to road cycling and packed in that velodrome bull$hit.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
You obviously never raced then. You have no idea how hard it is to get fit/fast enough even to compete. Most average riders can race on a road and hide in a bunch, on the track they would get dropped within 2 laps!!Serious Cat wrote:Why are you lot arguing when it refers to something as mindnumbingly boring as velodrome / track cycling and its round and round and round zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz nature.
If you going to hammer your points home in an aggressive fashion then it would be so much better if it was road based aggression and not rubbish like track cycling.
Im so glad laura trott has switched to road cycling and packed in that velodrome bull$hit.
In addition to that you obviously have no idea about cycling in general because it is off season for Laura Trott and other track riders so they race on road to train and for sponsors but their priority is track. If we had no track programme we would not have the pro riders we have now so go read up on some cycling, then come back and make a meaningful post. I guess you have time now school has finished
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I know track endurance riders who race who can't even get round in the second group on our chaingang let alone finish a road race. To say we would have no pro riders is a bit of a stretch as well - if the money that goes into track went into a road programme we'd have at least as many - probably more because we'd have Dan Martin too.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Yo dudes,
Before everyone stops giving a toss (and even I'm nearly there) I thought it'd be worth getting the facts re Wiggo, the Vuelta and his 'goodbye' to road racing.
February 2014. Wiggins and Team Sky determine that Martin's dominance in the Florence TT was due to the German having a grand tour in his legs. Wiggins was definitely on for the Vuelta specifically to address this. See: 'Sir Bradley Wiggins set to ride Vuelta in bid for world time trial title' The Observer Feb 9, 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/f ... a-a-espana
Early July 2014. Bradley Wiggins not selected for Tour De France on 'performance' grounds by Sky. Chris Froome falls off and abandons. Knowing the above, journalists speculate that this means Wiggins and Froome could now ride together in Spain. See: 'Froome and Wiggo, together again at Vuelta?' VeloNews July 10, 2014
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/ ... lta_335563
Between early and late July Wiggins is told he won't be picked for the Vuelta (because of Froome) which leads to:
Late July 2014 Wiggins announces at the Commonwealth Games that he is turning his back on road racing and, quite possibly, Sky. See: 'No more 'cut-throat' grand tours, says Wiggins' Reuters, July 24, 2014
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/ ... XX20140724
So Wiggo's apparently mercurial outburst re road racing is, given the above, not only perfectly explicable but a fairly natural reaction to Froome and Brailsford stiffing him for a second time in as many months. Not only has he lost out on riding the Vuelta but it will, he says, stop him from effectively competing against Martin in the Worlds.
And, of course, there is the simmering tension from Brailsford publicly insisting that selection is based on 'performance' while, privately, redefining 'performance' to include Chris Froome's mental health.
My feelings? I suspect the reason Wiggo remained at Sky was that his contract was so huge he could not move (as no one could afford him). Both sides felt they were stuck in an unhappy marriage. The consequences for both have been disastrous. Sky have Froome, who is a talented rider, but whom many in the UK see as a foreign carpetbagger who has killed the career of a genuine national hero and who has been toxic to the goodwill Sky previously enjoyed.
IMHO if the clock could be turned back Sky should have simply eaten the cost of paying Wiggo's contract for 2014 and allowed a transfer to another team. It would have cost a fortune but surely it would have been far, far preferable to the fiasco which has destabilized the team for two seasons and caused it to become hated in some quarters.
Cheers,
@swatch760 -
Swatch76 wrote:Yo dudes,
Before......mental health.
My feelings? I suspect the reason Wiggo remained at Sky was that his contract was so huge he could not move (as no one could afford him). Both sides felt they were stuck in an unhappy marriage. The consequences for both have been disastrous. Sky have Froome, who is a talented rider, but whom many in the UK see as a foreign carpetbagger who has killed the career of a genuine national hero and who has been toxic to the goodwill Sky previously enjoyed.
IMHO if the clock could be turned back Sky should have simply eaten the cost of paying Wiggo's contract for 2014 and allowed a transfer to another team. It would have cost a fortune but surely it would have been far, far preferable to the fiasco which has destabilized the team for two seasons and caused it to become hated in some quarters.
Cheers,
@swatch76
Even the great Hinault paid Lemond back in '86, for all his ego and arrogance. Ego and arrogance is fine if you can deliver the goods. Wiggo is passed it mentally. Froome wants to win and has the legs. Wiggo wants to win and no longer has the legs (more, the motivation). He is also so egocentric, he would not fit into many teams.
If you put yourself in Brailsford's shoes, would you pick a Froome or a Wiggo for a GT as it is plain to see, you cannot have both in the same squad unless each rider had clear instruction which would have been contrary to Wiggo's desires/ambitions. If Wiggo was on the SKY team for the TdF, would he have won in Froome's absence? Not a chance. SKY fell apart after Froome's exit and Richie Porte (heralded as a future GT contender) fell way short of the goods. I know a lot of that is hindsight but would not have been difficult to figure out before the TdF.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
pinarello001 wrote:Swatch76 wrote:Yo dudes,
Before......mental health.
My feelings? I suspect the reason Wiggo remained at Sky was that his contract was so huge he could not move (as no one could afford him). Both sides felt they were stuck in an unhappy marriage. The consequences for both have been disastrous. Sky have Froome, who is a talented rider, but whom many in the UK see as a foreign carpetbagger who has killed the career of a genuine national hero and who has been toxic to the goodwill Sky previously enjoyed.
IMHO if the clock could be turned back Sky should have simply eaten the cost of paying Wiggo's contract for 2014 and allowed a transfer to another team. It would have cost a fortune but surely it would have been far, far preferable to the fiasco which has destabilized the team for two seasons and caused it to become hated in some quarters.
Cheers,
@swatch76
Even the great Hinault paid Lemond back in '86, for all his ego and arrogance. Ego and arrogance is fine if you can deliver the goods. Wiggo is passed it mentally. Froome wants to win and has the legs. Wiggo wants to win and no longer has the legs (more, the motivation). He is also so egocentric, he would not fit into many teams.
If you put yourself in Brailsford's shoes, would you pick a Froome or a Wiggo for a GT as it is plain to see, you cannot have both in the same squad unless each rider had clear instruction which would have been contrary to Wiggo's desires/ambitions. If Wiggo was on the SKY team for the TdF, would he have won in Froome's absence? Not a chance. SKY fell apart after Froome's exit and Richie Porte (heralded as a future GT contender) fell way short of the goods. I know a lot of that is hindsight but would not have been difficult to figure out before the TdF.
Slight exagerations, to say the least.
The people who hate Sky and everything they do don't have a rational reason, and they dont need one, its personal choice.
I dont feel winning the Tour, for the second time in two years can realy be called a fiasco.0 -
I read some codswallop on these forums but "Serious Cat" is not one with that post.oldwelshman wrote:
You obviously never raced then. You have no idea how hard it is to get fit/fast enough even to compete. Most average riders can race on a road and hide in a bunch, on the track they would get dropped within 2 laps!!Serious Cat wrote:Why are you lot arguing when it refers to something as mindnumbingly boring as velodrome / track cycling and its round and round and round zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz nature.
If you going to hammer your points home in an aggressive fashion then it would be so much better if it was road based aggression and not rubbish like track cycling.
Im so glad laura trott has switched to road cycling and packed in that velodrome bull$hit.
In addition to that you obviously have no idea about cycling in general because it is off season for Laura Trott and other track riders so they race on road to train and for sponsors but their priority is track.
A bit OTT maybe but I too cannot watch too much of this "Air Conditioned Track racing".
I did ride (and stack up) the track and work out where the wind was in the home straight or maybe the back straight and the problem of needing 250 yards or more to catch or be caught in a pursuit.
To take part in a "Handicap Race" (never good enough to be scratch rider) which I was able to win a couple of times.
I loved the "Double Harness Pursuit" with various mates and 8 stations.
Nah, Track racing isn't as interesting (excluding 6 day racing) on these mini indoor tracks.
The track season timing was much the same as the road season and when they finished it was Cyclo Cross and Six Day Racing.
yeh I've done GENT but does anyone remember the Wembley SKOL (Larger beer) Six day events.
PS. while on the subject of round & round, I used to say that Chris Boardman needed winding his clockwork mechanism by Peter Keen to ride safely around the wooden track but he had no one to do that for his road racing and that's why he fell off so often. :roll:Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
mike6 wrote:pinarello001 wrote:
Slight exagerations, to say the least.
The people who hate Sky and everything they do don't have a rational reason, and they dont need one, its personal choice.
I dont feel winning the Tour, for the second time in two years can realy be called a fiasco.
I don't hate the SKY team per say. (I do not like the Murdoch News Corp). I just think Wiggo is acting/has acted like a plonker and doesn't merit a place on the squad for GT's and Froome deserves to be team leader.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
pinarello001 wrote:mike6 wrote:pinarello001 wrote:
Slight exagerations, to say the least.
The people who hate Sky and everything they do don't have a rational reason, and they dont need one, its personal choice.
I dont feel winning the Tour, for the second time in two years can realy be called a fiasco.
I don't hate the SKY team per say. (I do not like the Murdoch News Corp). I just think Wiggo is acting/has acted like a plonker and doesn't merit a place on the squad for GT's and Froome deserves to be team leader.
I have no argument with you on either of those points, I hate the Murdoch empire with a passion you can only dream of, but I am pleased they are putting some of there money into cycling rather than all of it into football.
Froome is the better GT athlete without a doubt, at this time. I have no idea what was promised to who after the Tour in 2012, no one but the protagonists know that for sure, but I dont think Wiggins, as Tour champion was given a fair crack at 2013. That may have been his choice, as I say who knows., I was just pointing out that people who dislike everything Team Sky are are entitled to there opinion, and that winning the Tour two years in a row was hardly a fiasco. 0 -
dennisn wrote:mike6 wrote:..... I hate the Murdoch empire with a passion you can only dream of,
Just gotta ask. What did the "Murdoch empire" ever do to you? :?
That is a subject for Cake Stop.
viewtopic.php?f=40088&t=12979275seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Are those endurance riders riding in a D group? Most of the A group track riders are elite or 1st cat roadoes anyway. Even at masters level, to be in top 10 british master in over 50 category even you need to be a decent 2nd cat roadie or you will not be competitive on the track.DeVlaeminck wrote:I know track endurance riders who race who can't even get round in the second group on our chaingang let alone finish a road race. To say we would have no pro riders is a bit of a stretch as well - if the money that goes into track went into a road programme we'd have at least as many - probably more because we'd have Dan Martin too.
I still say that most of the pro riders came out of the track programme, MArtin is exception, there will always be exceptions.0 -
pinarello001 wrote:Swatch76 wrote:Yo dudes,
Before......mental health.
My feelings? I suspect the reason Wiggo remained at Sky was that his contract was so huge he could not move (as no one could afford him). Both sides felt they were stuck in an unhappy marriage. The consequences for both have been disastrous. Sky have Froome, who is a talented rider, but whom many in the UK see as a foreign carpetbagger who has killed the career of a genuine national hero and who has been toxic to the goodwill Sky previously enjoyed.
IMHO if the clock could be turned back Sky should have simply eaten the cost of paying Wiggo's contract for 2014 and allowed a transfer to another team. It would have cost a fortune but surely it would have been far, far preferable to the fiasco which has destabilized the team for two seasons and caused it to become hated in some quarters.
Cheers,
@swatch76
Even the great Hinault paid Lemond back in '86, for all his ego and arrogance. Ego and arrogance is fine if you can deliver the goods. Wiggo is passed it mentally. Froome wants to win and has the legs. Wiggo wants to win and no longer has the legs (more, the motivation). He is also so egocentric, he would not fit into many teams.
If you put yourself in Brailsford's shoes, would you pick a Froome or a Wiggo for a GT as it is plain to see, you cannot have both in the same squad unless each rider had clear instruction which would have been contrary to Wiggo's desires/ambitions. If Wiggo was on the SKY team for the TdF, would he have won in Froome's absence? Not a chance. SKY fell apart after Froome's exit and Richie Porte (heralded as a future GT contender) fell way short of the goods. I know a lot of that is hindsight but would not have been difficult to figure out before the TdF.
He definitely has the legs and so much more, just needs Uncle Shane to kick his arse!0 -
pinarello001 wrote:mike6 wrote:pinarello001 wrote:
Slight exagerations, to say the least.
The people who hate Sky and everything they do don't have a rational reason, and they dont need one, its personal choice.
I dont feel winning the Tour, for the second time in two years can realy be called a fiasco.
I don't hate the SKY team per say. (I do not like the Murdoch News Corp). I just think Wiggo is acting/has acted like a plonker and doesn't merit a place on the squad for GT's and Froome deserves to be team leader.
I doubt he was given the chance to defend his 2012 title, the 2013 Giro was a take that or nothing sort of thing, not his choice I bet!0 -
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Anyone trashing wiggo and saying he is past it want to explain.0
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bdu98252 wrote:Anyone trashing wiggo and saying he is past it want to explain.
Performance in Tour of Switzerland - his last stage race before the "past it" posts - was dire to say the least, and was good justification for writing him off. That was "can't be arsed" Wiggins racing, who is a completely different athlete to "I fancy winning this" Wiggins who raced in California and the national TTs though.0 -
There are a lot of riders who always seem to be on it, and of course loads of riders who might always be on it but we never notice due to them not being good enough.Wallace and Gromit wrote:bdu98252 wrote:Anyone trashing wiggo and saying he is past it want to explain.
Performance in Tour of Switzerland - his last stage race before the "past it" posts - was dire to say the least, and was good justification for writing him off. That was "can't be arsed" Wiggins racing, who is a completely different athlete to "I fancy winning this" Wiggins who raced in California and the national TTs though.
I suspect Wiggo is just one of those guys who needs downtime - his CBA days. When he's on it though, he's superb - and looking at his road and track palmares he's still had far more on it days than most.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:bdu98252 wrote:Anyone trashing wiggo and saying he is past it want to explain.
Performance in Tour of Switzerland - his last stage race before the "past it" posts - was dire to say the least, and was good justification for writing him off. That was "can't be arsed" Wiggins racing, who is a completely different athlete to "I fancy winning this" Wiggins who raced in California and the national TTs though.
You could win a backwards rainbow jersey in the reverse TT with back-pedalling like that!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Until Wiggins wins another 2 WC TT Gold's he's just a poor man's Mick Rogers.
Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
ddraver wrote:Wallace and Gromit wrote:bdu98252 wrote:Anyone trashing wiggo and saying he is past it want to explain.
Performance in Tour of Switzerland - his last stage race before the "past it" posts - was dire to say the least, and was good justification for writing him off. That was "can't be arsed" Wiggins racing, who is a completely different athlete to "I fancy winning this" Wiggins who raced in California and the national TTs though.
You could win a backwards rainbow jersey in the reverse TT with back-pedalling like that!
I was just hypothesising as to why others wrote him off. I never did, as he has wanted the World ITT for a long time. His form was good early season before being shafted by Froome and Brailsford re GTs and his TT form has been good all season.
Whilst he probably never had the form this year to contend in the Tour, that loss of capability since 2012 doesn't mean he had suddenly turned into a no hoper. (If Porte and Thomas could manage top 20-ish placings then I fancy Wiggo would have done significantly better - borderline top 10 maybe? - if he'd maintained his Tour of California build, which was pretty skinny.)0 -
Daz555 wrote:I suspect Wiggo is just one of those guys who needs downtime - his CBA days. When he's on it though, he's superb - and looking at his road and track palmares he's still had far more on it days than most.
Sir Matt Pinsent was a bit like that in the rowing world. He was notoriously uncompetitive in training, and was okay with being "beaten" so long as satisfying the coach. However, in competition, which was fairly infrequent, he was an absolute monster.
In the 8 years they rowed together, Pinsent always got beaten by James Cracknell in rowing machine trials, except in ones nominated by the coach as key in Olympic year or in public competitions, when he put his race head on and did the business.0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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TailWindHome wrote:
That's quite honest from Sir Dave about why Sir Brad was omitted. I don't think he's ever been that explicit in an interview before. Sadly for him, if you make controversial/unpopular decisions then you have to get the results, which is why omitting Sir Brad this year will always be viewed as "wrong" by the majority of casual cycling fans. Obviously, if Froome had completed the Tour and either won or challenged for the top step, then Sir Dave would have been "right". It's a tough game, as Froome crashing was not something he could control, but taking the blame for that kind of bad luck is what he gets paid for!
Ditching Pietersen is the right decision in my view as it's hard to avoid the conclusion that he is the biggest tw*t ever to play professional sport, despite a lot of competition for that accolade. (Fantastic player on his day, mind you.) In his last series as a player, England lost 5-0, albeit not his fault, but you are only as good as your last result. After a difficult start to the post-KP era, England finished the season strongly in test matches, so ditching KP was clearly the "right" decision.0 -
Decent comparisons between the two athletes.
The Management slightly different as I think Flower does have this tough streak which Brailsford maybe softens with the use of science and Peters.
Good article though.0 -
Love the way the inability to manage athletes is presented as great management. The premature end to the career of our greatest ever cyclist and one of the best cricketers is a failure whatever other successes the "teams" have had.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
