Future of Sky Procycling

1235

Comments

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Macaloon wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Their nominated GC contender for the Giro, riding the Tour with no Giro in his legs is not reinforcing the Tour squad? How so?
    It may have been a side effect, but it wasn't the reason for it.

    I don't know how you can be so categoric. It's possible that Porte preferred to shelter Froome rather than face Quintana.
    I'll spell it out to you. Here are Porte's races from March to May:
    Tirreno-Adriatico DNF
    Catalunya DNF
    L-B-L DNF
    Romandie DNF

    He only finished nine days of racing in that period. Why would you go to the Giro with that as your leader?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    adr82 wrote:
    Since Rich has already responded to your main point, I just have to ask: did you lose money or something when Sky didn't do anything in the Giro?
    I do think it's an unfair advantage that the team can afford to effectively ignore the second biggest race on the calendar. Makes the Tour performance look worse is my point.
    All the teams do the same number of races and have about the same number of riders. It's up to them how they spread their resources. Sky didn't ignore anyway. Their intended GC leader got ill and not as you seem to believe for tactical reasons (after all after DNFing in every race in the prior two months he was bang in form)

    And once again you're ignoring that when Saxo had an emergency withdrawal they took one of Contador's key allies to fill the gap. Which rider of similar calibre did Sky deploy in the Giro, with weeks to think about it, at possible high risk to the Tour squad?

    It's ridiculous to pretend that the teams have the same workload. Nibali was being flogged in MSR this year...
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Saxo have won 2 stages and now hold the polka dot jersey, so not a bad recover from losing their leader.

    One are where Sky really could do with looking at is making quicker decisions on the road when riders crash or are in trouble. Even going back to when Wiggins crashed out, they have a tendency to stick with the plan even after it's fallen apart. On the alpine stages why first Nieve with Porte, and then Thomas with Nieve were working for team mates having a worse day than themselves is bizarre. At least today made sense with Bernie working, it's they just weren't the best and got beaten by an ex-team mate.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Their nominated GC contender for the Giro, riding the Tour with no Giro in his legs is not reinforcing the Tour squad? How so?
    It may have been a side effect, but it wasn't the reason for it.

    I don't know how you can be so categoric. It's possible that Porte preferred to shelter Froome rather than face Quintana.
    I'll spell it out to you. Here are Porte's races from March to May:
    Tirreno-Adriatico DNF
    Catalunya DNF
    L-B-L DNF
    Romandie DNF

    He only finished nine days of racing in that period. Why would you go to the Giro with that as your leader?

    Conceded. He wasn't withdrawn tactically.

    Can you show me the results which led to his nomination as Plan B/key lieutenant in the Tour?
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited July 2014
    eh wrote:
    Saxo have won 2 stages and now hold the polka dot jersey, so not a bad recover from losing their leader.
    Good for them. It's the first thing they've won at the Tour since the Schlecks left.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Macaloon wrote:
    Can you show me the results which led to his nomination as Plan B/key lieutenant in the Tour?
    He doesn't need them. If that rider fails, then it doesn't matter as long as the leader is going well. After all, no-one seems to be too bothered that Astana's equivalent - Fuglsang - is currently riding around dressed up like an egyptian mummy.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Can you show me the results which led to his nomination as Plan B/key lieutenant in the Tour?
    He doesn't need them. If that rider fails, then it doesn't matter as long as the leader is going well. After all, no-one seems to be too bothered that Astana's equivalent - Fuglsang - is currently riding around dressed up like an egyptian mummy.

    Better luck next time, then.

    Enjoyable ding-dong, nonetheless.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Can you show me the results which led to his nomination as Plan B/key lieutenant in the Tour?
    He doesn't need them. If that rider fails, then it doesn't matter as long as the leader is going well. After all, no-one seems to be too bothered that Astana's equivalent - Fuglsang - is currently riding around dressed up like an egyptian mummy.

    Yes it was plain for all to see, he was next best rider for the team and in the top10 on GC. OK? :roll:
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    mike6 wrote:
    Yes it was plain for all to see, he was next best rider for the team and in the top10 on GC. OK? :roll:

    It's certainly a shock to see his decline this year. Hope he recovers. How did he ever make the team with that record, Mike?
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Macaloon wrote:
    mike6 wrote:
    Yes it was plain for all to see, he was next best rider for the team and in the top10 on GC. OK? :roll:

    It's certainly a shock to see his decline this year. Hope he recovers. How did he ever make the team with that record, Mike?

    Could be that the coaches saw how he was riding in training prior to the Tour, I doubt Sky would simply take a punt. His early form, before he got the chest infection, would point to him improving as the race progressed. He was only a couple of seconds behind Contador and Nibs on the first decent climb when Bertie made his big attack.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Can you show me the results which led to his nomination as Plan B/key lieutenant in the Tour?
    He doesn't need them. If that rider fails, then it doesn't matter as long as the leader is going well. After all, no-one seems to be too bothered that Astana's equivalent - Fuglsang - is currently riding around dressed up like an egyptian mummy.

    To be fair, I've sometimes looked like that after I've hit the bottle.

    I'm fine with a lieutenant not needing results for a tour selection, but Porte's form this season hasn't been all that much to shout about, he's certainly not looked anything like the rider he was last season. Yes, I'm aware he's been I'll. And before you remind me about his 2nd place in GC before his illness, how many high mountain stages had he covered by that time?

    I said earlier that I think he was probably still the best pick, based on ability when in form, but it begs the question "is that all Sky have?" I think they were a stronger team last season and even stronger the season before.

    Personally, I'd have like to see Kennaugh at the tour, he's had an excellent season, and it's a crying shame that Henao crashed to end his already truncated season. They're riders that can be put in a mountain train or can be sent off in a break.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Macaloon wrote:
    mike6 wrote:
    Yes it was plain for all to see, he was next best rider for the team and in the top10 on GC. OK? :roll:

    It's certainly a shock to see his decline this year. Hope he recovers. How did he ever make the team with that record, Mike?
    It's not a decline. He's had health problems. Just like Mick Rogers did when he joined Sky. And he's done alright since.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    OK, Sky obviously can't win in the eyes of many people no matter what they do. End of thread TBH.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    mike6 wrote:
    Yes it was plain for all to see, he was next best rider for the team and in the top10 on GC. OK? :roll:

    It's certainly a shock to see his decline this year. Hope he recovers. How did he ever make the team with that record, Mike?
    It's not a decline. He's had health problems. Just like Mick Rogers did when he joined Sky. And he's done alright since.

    That reads like you're asking us to read between the lines, but I don't think that was your intention.

    The health problems is interesting though, Froome has suffered as well this year. It's pure speculation, but maybe Sky aren't keeping their riders as healthy as they should be. I said earlier in the thread that DB's 4 year cycles might not have provided him with the right tools to manage riders psychologically and physiologically when they have to do the same again the next season. Just speculation. Disclaimer - as an Arsenal fan I've come to the conclusion that it's entirely possible to have systemic failure that continually crocks our players and sets them back in recovery time. The phrase "two to three weeks" has become the most feared sentence we can hear, it invariable means "half a season at best, may never be the same player again".
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Nice bit of hostage negotiation there, Doc. It's a pity that when it comes to this particular team, people can't just be wrong, they have to be pushing an agenda, or a moron, too. Or so it seems. I don't think I've much history of willfully ignoring reasoned arguments so that was interesting.

    Maybe given the corporation sponsoring the team it's not surprising that its fans don't enjoy nuance :wink:
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    Would speculate that had they kept to,the train at stifling pace Froome would have been kept out of difficulty. Another thing to realise is that when you have a winning formula, stick to it. Once they played the opponents game they found they were not best at it.
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    edited July 2014
    Macaloon wrote:
    Nice bit of hostage negotiation there, Doc. It's a pity that when it comes to this particular team, people can't just be wrong, they have to be pushing an agenda, or a moron, too. Or so it seems. I don't think I've much history of willfully ignoring reasoned arguments so that was interesting.

    Maybe given the corporation sponsoring the team it's not surprising that its fans don't enjoy nuance :wink:
    Again, will someone please explain to me why "this particular team" is so deserving of all this attention?

    Also kudos to Rich for all his efforts in this thread.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Macaloon wrote:
    Nice bit of hostage negotiation there, Doc. It's a pity that when it comes to this particular team, people can't just be wrong, they have to be pushing an agenda, or a moron, too. Or so it seems. I don't think I've much history of willfully ignoring reasoned arguments so that was interesting.
    You seem to have a history of getting some idea that you've got off twitter (such as Porte why dropped out of the Giro) and standing by it regardless. And you seem to have a history of getting hysterical and overreacting to common set backs. Froome crashed . If he hadn't he would most likely be second on GC and everything would be peachy, just like last year. Could they improve? Of course. Everyone can. Will they make changes? Yes.

    I've been watching this sport a long time now, and I've pretty much see it all. I've seen GC riders shot, turn up late,get run over and sent the wrong way. I've seen a hundred leaders crash out and a hundred leaders get sick. Not once has the team 'imploded'. It was never a crisis. Every time they just made do and moved on to the next race. Sometimes they were good, sometimes they were bad. And that's that.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    RichN95 wrote:
    I've been watching this sport a long time now, and I've pretty much see it all.

    Have you seen a team have as much bad luck as Sky have this year?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    RichN95 wrote:
    I've seen GC riders shot, turn up late,get run over and sent the wrong way.

    Tbf, if they'd just been shot it was probably fair enough that they turned up late.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TailWindHome wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    I've been watching this sport a long time now, and I've pretty much see it all.

    Have you seen a team have as much bad luck as Sky have this year?
    Sure. Look at Radioshack just two years ago Schleck crashed in the Dauphine and was never the same rider again and Cancellara crashed out of Flanders and then later at the Olympics. In the 80s La Vie Claire went from one of the all time great teams in 1986 to a disaster in 1987/8.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Sky have got themselves in a position where anything aside from a tour win is a bit disappointing

    This season, they've had a fair amount of bad luck, but their main issue seems to stem from people having completely unrealistic expectations, a while back it was postulated by some that sky might win all the GTs, as they probably have the talent to not only provide 3 good leaders, but also potentially control the races. That just hasn't materialised.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    RichN95 wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Nice bit of hostage negotiation there, Doc. It's a pity that when it comes to this particular team, people can't just be wrong, they have to be pushing an agenda, or a moron, too. Or so it seems. I don't think I've much history of willfully ignoring reasoned arguments so that was interesting.
    You seem to have a history of getting some idea that you've got off twitter (such as Porte why dropped out of the Giro) and standing by it regardless. And you seem to have a history of getting hysterical and overreacting to common set backs. Froome crashed . If he hadn't he would most likely be second on GC and everything would be peachy, just like last year. Could they improve? Of course. Everyone can. Will they make changes? Yes.

    I've been watching this sport a long time now, and I've pretty much see it all. I've seen GC riders shot, turn up late,get run over and sent the wrong way. I've seen a hundred leaders crash out and a hundred leaders get sick. Not once has the team 'imploded'. It was never a crisis. Every time they just made do and moved on to the next race. Sometimes they were good, sometimes they were bad. And that's that.

    Aye. That's a bit disappointing: not just wrong and hysterical, but second-hand too. Like to back-up that nasty piece of snark? Spell it out for people?

    Meanwhile I'll keep my opinions to myself. Wouldn't want to upset you.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    mike6 wrote:
    So Sky have had a bad Tour, Its not the end of the world. Murdock must be laughing all the way to the bank, do well or do badly all some people on here can talk about is Sky Procycling. :roll:

    That - i ve mentioned before that Sky live rent free in a lot of cycling fans heads...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • mechanism
    mechanism Posts: 891
    The cycling podcast suggested that Sky are looking to recruit winners and strong personalities; more-or-less the character traits they're accused of training out of their current group of riders.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,548
    RichN95 wrote:
    You can same exactly the same for almost every team. Only three teams have won two World Tour races - and only Katusha with different riders. Prior to the Tour Astana only had three stage wins. Sky aren't having a great season, but Froome, Wiggins, Thomas, Stannard and Kennaugh have all won races rated HC or higher which seems pretty good for British Cycling. It used be that Jeremy Hunt winning a stage of the Tour of Dunkirk was a big deal.

    Jeremy Hunt never won a stage of the Four Days of Dunkirk. :wink:
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Mick Rogers on Vive le Velo last night.
    "When Contador crashed out, there was no Plan B, we just had Plan A, believe me, absolutely no Plan B at all."
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Mechanism wrote:
    The cycling podcast suggested that Sky are looking to recruit winners and strong personalities; more-or-less the character traits they're accused of training out of their current group of riders.
    Who isn't looking to recruit winners? (Apart from Lampre obviously)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Bloody hell. You start a thread having a chortle at cyclingnews' crap sub-editing, leave it alone for a couple of days and look what happens..
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    calvjones wrote:
    Bloody hell. You start a thread having a chortle at cyclingnews' crap sub-editing, leave it alone for a couple of days and look what happens..

    Indeed. Add Sky to the 'things you should never talk about' list alongside Religion, Politics and Money.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.

Categories