Tour de France:- Stage 14: Grenoble - Risoul *Spoiler*
Comments
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DeadCalm wrote:Quite possibly although I'm beginning to think Rolland is greener than his jersey with envy at the success of the other French riders so I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt. I still think that when push comes to shove though, Peraud will definitely ride for Bardet. Not 100% sure of the other way around.
As I keep saying, Peraud would be right up there if it wasn't for his mechanical on stage 5 and I'd say he was probably the strongest Frenchman overall in the race. The hype over Bardet may be a good thing for him though. It certainly has taken a lot of the pressure off of him.
Rolland finished 4th in the Giro, against a much stronger field it now appears, let's not forget. A top 10 Tour finish would be remarkable. The competition amongst the French is fantastic for the race. Good on AG2R for letting their contenders sort it out on the road on the final climb (assuming that's what happened)....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:I don't think Contador had enough to beat Nibali - not with a 2'30" disadvantage after the cobbles.
Froome? Maybe. He always had the TT up his sleeve. But the x factor there is we just don't know how he would have faired on stage 5, powering along in G's slipstream or sticking with Contador.
Would have liked to have seen a healthy motivated Evans in this race.
I think most felt that the margin that Nibali would have taken into the mountains made the contest
far more interesting, but ultimately Contador would overhaul his man.
However, having seen the ease at which Nibali has tackled each final ascent; being eager to attack and attack early and apparently without going deep, suggests strongly that initial impressions were wrong.
Mano a mano, it now looks as if Nibali would have had Contador's measure in the mountains."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:I here by move that one incarnation of Rayjay is allowed to stay - he may then calm down a bit.
No chance. He's banging on again about the same boring pathetic tedious miserable hysterical decomposed turgid sh1t that he was under all the other names. Meanwhile there's a race on.
e: we haven't had a thread locked in a while. If he sticks around it's only a matter of time....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
With Quintana in the mix too, next year's Tour could be pretty good.0
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FJS wrote:With Quintana in the mix too, next year's Tour could be pretty good.
Not to mention this years Vuelta ( if Contador recovers )0 -
TailWindHome wrote:I here by move that one incarnation of Rayjay is allowed to stay - he may then calm down a bit.
It hasn't.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Valverde had a mechanical caused by Pinot it seems, couldn't change gears successfully.
I might try that excuse if I'm late for work one morning. "Boss you never guess what happened? I was cycling along when out of the blue, Pinot appeared and he... ""The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0 -
Don’t worry, you’re not alone – I like him and think he (with Contador) is one of the few riders with a definite tactical nouse.cesco wrote:I seem to be the only one on here that doesn't hate Valverde's guts.
Valverde’s ability, thus his choice of tactics, is more limited than Contador’s, and the tactics he choses sometimes go wrong – I suspect he decides on them the night before rather than during the stage. But at least he seems to think for himself, which I don’t feel all riders do.
I don’t think he follows wheels half as much as some posters believe. And anyway what’s wrong with that if the front man lets it happen?
I wonder if any critical posters have ever actually raced? Or even ran (the same tactics sometimes happen in running races)
Valverde’s published wattage data in last year’s Tour was the subject of a study, which concluded his data wasn’t much different from that of an amateur with more weight, which suggests he is definitely ‘clean’ nowadays. So I feel no suspicions there.
I also look at French, German and Italian Internet cycling forums and only here is Valverde disliked. I know there is a doping history, but that applies to many other iders too. Is it simply because he looks too swarthy for Brit tastes?0 -
Also the climb need to be renamed to the Looterenevman wrote:0 -
knedlicky wrote:
Don’t worry, you’re not alone – I like him and think he (with Contador) is one of the few riders with a definite tactical nouse.cesco wrote:I seem to be the only one on here that doesn't hate Valverde's guts.
Valverde’s ability, thus his choice of tactics, is more limited than Contador’s, and the tactics he choses sometimes go wrong – I suspect he decides on them the night before rather than during the stage. But at least he seems to think for himself, which I don’t feel all riders do.
I don’t think he follows wheels half as much as some posters believe. And anyway what’s wrong with that if the front man lets it happen?
I wonder if any critical posters have ever actually raced? Or even ran (the same tactics sometimes happen in running races)
Valverde’s published wattage data in last year’s Tour was the subject of a study, which concluded his data wasn’t much different from that of an amateur with more weight, which suggests he is definitely ‘clean’ nowadays. So I feel no suspicions there.
I also look at French, German and Italian Internet cycling forums and only here is Valverde disliked. I know there is a doping history, but that applies to many other iders too. Is it simply because he looks too swarthy for Brit tastes?
I can't talk for anyone else, and I don't dislike any riders, but I assume its the wheel sucking, unrepentant doper they take exception to.0 -
How this tour misses Contador and Froome, real snore fest now. Can't wait for 2015.http://www.snookcycling.wordpress.com - Reports on Cingles du Mont Ventoux, Alpe D'Huez, Galibier, Izoard, Tourmalet, Paris-Roubaix Sportive & Tour of Flanders Sportive, Amstel Gold Xperience, Vosges, C2C, WOTR routes....0
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Peraud is the 'mature' domestique so I'm sure will ride for Bardet when necessary, but it's been Peraud's ambition for several years to get on the TdF or Giro podium, so if ever Bardet falters (a bit like today) I'm sure Peraud will take advantage.DeadCalm wrote:I still think that when push comes to shove though, Peraud will definitely ride for Bardet. Not 100% sure of the other way around.
The hype over Bardet may be a good thing for him though.
Eitherway, I agree that 'the hype over Bardet may be a good thing for him' - I think it will lead to him eventually winning the Tour more than once.0 -
I like Valverde. But he had a tough day today. He has had a good season but Nibs is just to good. I fear the podium will slip away.0
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I'll say one thing for Valverde and that is he is not averse to attacking. My problem with his decision making is that he is too averse to cooperating to the extent it actually costs him because he generally isn't the kind of rider to make a solo attack stick. He has a great sprint on him so you'd think it'd be in his interests to work with other riders and bring things down to a small group sprint but we've seen at the worlds and Liege in the last couple of years that he'd rather sit behind others and see someone go up the road.
Yesterday you could see his thinking but after today it's looking like a poor decision - he could definitely have made more time on most if he'd worked.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Macaloon wrote:TailWindHome wrote:I here by move that one incarnation of Rayjay is allowed to stay - he may then calm down a bit.
No chance. He's banging on again about the same boring pathetic tedious miserable hysterical decomposed turgid sh1t that he was under all the other names. Meanwhile there's a race on.
e: we haven't had a thread locked in a while. If he sticks around it's only a matter of time.
My opinion is as valid as yours. I have as much if not more knowledge of cycling than you do. I also go out and ride my bike every day and have climbed most of the Climbs in the tour and have done some good times. I have also had a few rides, climbs with pro riders Basso , Pellizotti to name 2. You are entitled to your view and me mine.
I just don't need to go round insulting people who I disagree with.
Now back to the race0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:I'll say one thing for Valverde and that is he is not averse to attacking. My problem with his decision making is that he is too averse to cooperating to the extent it actually costs him because he generally isn't the kind of rider to make a solo attack stick. He has a great sprint on him so you'd think it'd be in his interests to work with other riders and bring things down to a small group sprint but we've seen at the worlds and Liege in the last couple of years that he'd rather sit behind others and see someone go up the road.
Yesterday you could see his thinking but after today it's looking like a poor decision - he could definitely have made more time on most if he'd worked.
He just does not have the legs to make an attack stick on such a long climb. Nibs is setting such a hot tempo. Its very difficult to sustain that pace as nearly everyone has found out. He would be better using his energy to defend his position.
If I were Valverde I would just aim for to try and get a podium. If he try's to get Nibs I think he will end up losing any podium chance he has.0 -
I don't care about the wheelsucking - why waste a sprint like his - or the history. But jumping Pinot immediately after refusing a turn, 5km from the line, was classless and strangely negative in the context of the race.
This race is much more interesting for his presence. He'll fight like a demon and given his TT prowess he could slip away in the mountains and still take a podium away from Pinot on the penultimate day. A classic pantomime villain....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
The outsiders
Since I think the breakaway will make it today, let’s have a look at some of the riders most likely to be in it. Tinkoff-Saxo is gunning for stage wins after Alberto Contador left the race. Rafal Majka, Nicolas Roche and Michael Rogers all have what it takes to win this kind of stage. On paper, Rafal Majka is their best card to play. The young Poles says he’s been taking it easy, saving energy for the mountain stages. He proved this on stage 13, when he put in a strong attack and managed to stay with Nibali and König for a long time. If he gets into the winning break, he will be a very serious contender for this stage.
It's amazing how often Mikkel Condé's previews are on the money. Most of us can't forecast history this accurately....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Coachb wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:I'll say one thing for Valverde and that is he is not averse to attacking. My problem with his decision making is that he is too averse to cooperating to the extent it actually costs him because he generally isn't the kind of rider to make a solo attack stick. He has a great sprint on him so you'd think it'd be in his interests to work with other riders and bring things down to a small group sprint but we've seen at the worlds and Liege in the last couple of years that he'd rather sit behind others and see someone go up the road.
Yesterday you could see his thinking but after today it's looking like a poor decision - he could definitely have made more time on most if he'd worked.
He just does not have the legs to make an attack stick on such a long climb. Nibs is setting such a hot tempo. Its very difficult to sustain that pace as nearly everyone has found out. He would be better using his energy to defend his position.
If I were Valverde I would just aim for to try and get a podium. If he try's to get Nibs I think he will end up losing any podium chance he has.
Exactly, and the best way of defending his position yesterday would have been to cooperate with Pinot rather than sitting on, trying to launch off solo and then slowing things down by refusing to cooperate. I could see his thinking that Pinot is maybe the bigger threat and he may have attacked him but it's probably too early in the race to be picking one rider out as the threat as today has proven.
It's more a general point about his riding, yesterday perhaps he was wrong with hindsight but at times it's so obvious he's killing any hope of getting back to the leader by his refusal to do a stroke.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Macaloon wrote:The outsiders
Since I think the breakaway will make it today, let’s have a look at some of the riders most likely to be in it. Tinkoff-Saxo is gunning for stage wins after Alberto Contador left the race. Rafal Majka, Nicolas Roche and Michael Rogers all have what it takes to win this kind of stage. On paper, Rafal Majka is their best card to play. The young Poles says he’s been taking it easy, saving energy for the mountain stages. He proved this on stage 13, when he put in a strong attack and managed to stay with Nibali and König for a long time. If he gets into the winning break, he will be a very serious contender for this stage.
It's amazing how often Mikkel Condé's previews are on the money. Most of us can't forecast history this accurately.
Hmmm. Resting when his team leader was still in the race then. Didn't want to be there and then rides away for a stage win. If I had to put money on anyone being busted this tour it would be him.0 -
smithy21 wrote:Macaloon wrote:The outsiders
Since I think the breakaway will make it today, let’s have a look at some of the riders most likely to be in it. Tinkoff-Saxo is gunning for stage wins after Alberto Contador left the race. Rafal Majka, Nicolas Roche and Michael Rogers all have what it takes to win this kind of stage. On paper, Rafal Majka is their best card to play. The young Poles says he’s been taking it easy, saving energy for the mountain stages. He proved this on stage 13, when he put in a strong attack and managed to stay with Nibali and König for a long time. If he gets into the winning break, he will be a very serious contender for this stage.
It's amazing how often Mikkel Condé's previews are on the money. Most of us can't forecast history this accurately.
Hmmm. Resting when his team leader was still in the race then. Didn't want to be there and then rides away for a stage win. If I had to put money on anyone being busted this tour it would be him.
Do you think he decides to rest for the first week or so for himself? He was told to rest as he was meant to be probably the strongest domestique in the mountains for Contador.
Contador is unfortunately out and what they should do you think? Give up?
I don't think any rider of his age wants to do two GTs in one season. It will knacker him for the rest of the season and I know he had different plans, such as the Tour of Poland to name one.0 -
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I have to admit to having been converted to Valverde this season. He is quite versatile and he raced well early in the season particularly in the Roma Maxima.
I think he is smarter than a lot of the other riders around him. He'll barely show his face if at all most race but you know he'll be there at the end. He probably lies about his strength, feigns weakness yet gets away with it repeatedly.
We all like a good baddie and he even looks like one. I told a none cycling mate to put an each way bet on him before the TdF as you can't keep a good bad man down.0 -
A lot of the flack bunged at Valverde is based on his doping past. I would look at it in terms of he was one of only about half a dozen of the many, many riders implicated in Puerto who actually done their time. Anything else is just racing and if you are going to have a go at someone for winning of the back of others efforts you're watching the wrong sport.
I'm neither here nor there on Valverde, but if he rides smart and wins or improves his position then I'm going to see it as positive rather than negative.Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
type:epyt wrote:
and if you are going to have a go at someone for winning of the back of others efforts you're watching the wrong sport.
I'm neither here nor there on Valverde, but if he rides smart and wins or improves his position then I'm going to see it as positive rather than negative.
But on Friday he didn't win did he? And you'd be hard pressed to say he improved his position in any meaningful way.
It's one thing to air on sometimes wheel when you're riding for a win. That's tactics. But his ride on stage 13 was nothing short of cowardly. And I used to quite like him as a racer.
Still, movistar obviously relish the role of pantomime villains.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
The_Boy wrote:type:epyt wrote: and if you are going to have a go at someone for winning of the back of others efforts you're watching the wrong sport.
I'm neither here nor there on Valverde, but if he rides smart and wins or improves his position then I'm going to see it as positive rather than negative.
But on Friday he didn't win did he? And you'd be hard pressed to say he improved his position in any meaningful way.
It's one thing to air on sometimes wheel when you're riding for a win. That's tactics. But his ride on stage 13 was nothing short of cowardly. And I used to quite like him as a racer.
Still, movistar obviously relish the role of pantomime villains.
But he was one of the few who did try to go with Nibali, just didn't have it so instead altered his tactic to suit his legs. I don't understand daft notions like 'cowardly' riding, it's not the Wizard of Oz (despite the obsession with fancy coloured shoes). If you can see a rider riding at the front chances are he's competing rather than surviving. The only cowardly thing I have ever seen in cycling was the gruppetto that was engineered to keep the numbers high enough to make sure certain riders stayed in the race (and went on to win a major prize).Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
“I think he is a happy little b**ard right now,” Riis laughed. “He is fantastic. That was a big number today, a really great victory.
“He has been sitting out there the whole day, pulling in the wind and everything, and still able to have 35 seconds at the bottom and keep it until the finish…that is something big.”
And apparently:
“The assertion that I didn’t want to ride the Tour de France is not a true story. Bjarne Riis and my directeur sportif Fabrizio Guidi told me: ‘You’ll do the Tour but you’ll take it easy in the first week.’
“The plan was to help Alberto Contador in the mountains but we had bad luck. Since his accident, we try to win a stage. It’s also wrong to think that I’m doing the Tour because Roman Kreuziger isn’t. Had he been able to start, we would have both been part of the team.”Contador is the Greatest0 -
type:epyt wrote:The_Boy wrote:type:epyt wrote: and if you are going to have a go at someone for winning of the back of others efforts you're watching the wrong sport.
I'm neither here nor there on Valverde, but if he rides smart and wins or improves his position then I'm going to see it as positive rather than negative.
But on Friday he didn't win did he? And you'd be hard pressed to say he improved his position in any meaningful way.
It's one thing to air on sometimes wheel when you're riding for a win. That's tactics. But his ride on stage 13 was nothing short of cowardly. And I used to quite like him as a racer.
Still, movistar obviously relish the role of pantomime villains.
But he was one of the few who did try to go with Nibali, just didn't have it so instead altered his tactic to suit his legs. I don't understand daft notions like 'cowardly' riding, it's not the Wizard of Oz (despite the obsession with fancy coloured shoes). If you can see a rider riding at the front chances are he's competing rather than surviving. The only cowardly thing I have ever seen in cycling was the gruppetto that was engineered to keep the numbers high enough to make sure certain riders stayed in the race (and went on to win a major prize).
He didn't alter his tactics to suit his legs. He altered his tactics because he was more concerned with gaining three second on pinot than trying to minimise hits losses to nibbles, and maximising his time gains against the group behind.
He could quite easily have worked with pinot and still taken him for the three seconds.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Valverde:
"It's true that I'm still in 2nd place, but it was hard today," he said. "In a swerve with 3k or 3.5k to go, Pinot accidentally touched my gear with his front wheel. It didn't work well, it was jumping from one ring to another and I had to climb on a big gear, I was super stuck. It wasn't a particularly bad day for me, but not good either - still, we got over it with not much damage.
Photo of him in the big ring:
Contador is the Greatest0
