Sky plan C protected rider ?

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Worth remembering that Sky's best rider this year bar Froome and PK is Nieve - a home grown Basque rider and his talent, his style and his performance has nothing to do with Sky.

In terms of CQ Ranking points, it's:

1. Froome 852
2. Thomas 693
3. Kennaugh 575
4. Swift 564
5. Wiggins 399
6. Porte 349
7. Cataldo 295
8. Boasson Hagen 251
9. Stannard 245
10. Nieve 236

Macaloon

^ StatSlap ©

frenchfighter

Haha I didnt mean result wise. He has been pretty much the last man standing.

I also have a clear distinction between Classics team and Stage Race team. Had Nieve been allowed to ride for himself and had proper support when leaders crashed or failed he would be higher up.

norvernrob

Wrong thread!

Coachb

what a disaster... still a week to go. Perhaps one of the mechanics might get a ride.

Anonymous

PLease just do it Rich.

dsoutar

Coachb wrote:

what a disaster... still a week to go. Perhaps one of the mechanics might get a ride.

You still here ?

Bore off. Come back when you can contribute something meaningful

Pross

What exactly happened to Porte? I saw him drop a few seconds on Les Planches but perfectly acceptable and then the next time I got to watch he was drifting out of the back on the lower slopes of the Tourmalet with 60km to go and already over 30 minutes down while Nieve was leading the race.

above_the_cows

He got a chest infection.

DeVlaeminck

I wonder where his career goes from here, presumably leadership ambitions are dead for the time being. Does that leave Sky short of a GC rider or open up possibilities for an existing squad member?

milton50

I don't think Sky will be panicking yet. He's a proven 1 week stage race winner and could easily have finished 2nd in last year's Tour.

It's just one of those years where you continually have niggling injuries and can't seem to get any momentum. It happens in sport. If he turns up to Paris Nice next year in the same kind of shape he's in now then it's time to worry.

DeVlaeminck

Above The Cows wrote:

He got a chest infection.

Although it does depend which day you asked Sky. Pre stage he was in"good health" according to the man himself in interviews. Post stage it was purely down to heat, no illness, backed up by another rider that Porte had been fine, Brailsford speculated about the heat and hydration too but said the "honest answer" was they didn't know why he'd lost time.

frenchfighter

Pross wrote:

What exactly happened to Porte? I saw him drop a few seconds on Les Planches but perfectly acceptable and then the next time I got to watch he was drifting out of the back on the lower slopes of the Tourmalet with 60km to go and already over 30 minutes down while Nieve was leading the race.

He got smoked badly regardless of what he was on. Gave up.
Lots of riders with crashes and illness finished well ahead of him.
JVB (do not like him) he lost a packet after he got ill and was on antibiotics, but fought bravely every day.
Doesnt matter tho - he is on a team where giving up is accepted.

JB still backing Porte. Im not surprised he failed - he has been awful all year apart from two stages in dauphine and he often struggles when he doesnt have Froome.

One thing is for sure - if JB has a 2015 like 2014 then he isnt going to have a job in road cycling in 2016.

Lets hope Quintana pounds Froome in the Vuelta.
G, who supposedly wants to be a leading GC rider, well lets just say he found it difficult. I like him so I hope his downfall was due to over exerting himself for plan a, b and c.

FJS

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

G, who supposedly wants to be a leading GC rider, well lets just say he found it difficult. I like him so I hope his downfall was due to over exerting himself for plan a, b and c.

I like him too. I hope sticks to the classics. He can win stuff there

adamfo

Coachb wrote:

Sky just don't know how to improvise on the road. They don't have the riders of the calibre of Contador or Nibs ,Talansky etc who can grab the moment. Look at the dauphine when the plan was for Froome to attack at the 1 k to go mark ,Finhaut-Emosson stage.
To late,,, Contador was already up the road, Sky could not react to Berties attack. It was not part of their plan.

Nonsense. Froome was carrying an injury after his crash early in the dauphine, no attack was possible. Who won stage 2 ? How many stages did Sky win ? Nibali was destroyed and AC didn't win even with Froome sidelined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_C-SoEqVLU

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

What exactly happened to Porte? I saw him drop a few seconds on Les Planches but perfectly acceptable and then the next time I got to watch he was drifting out of the back on the lower slopes of the Tourmalet with 60km to go and already over 30 minutes down while Nieve was leading the race.

He got smoked badly regardless of what he was on. Gave up.
Lots of riders with crashes and illness finished well ahead of him.
JVB (do not like him) he lost a packet after he got ill and was on antibiotics, but fought bravely every day.
Doesnt matter tho - he is on a team where giving up is accepted.

JB still backing Porte. Im not surprised he failed - he has been awful all year apart from two stages in dauphine and he often struggles when he doesnt have Froome.

One thing is for sure - if JB has a 2015 like 2014 then he isnt going to have a job in road cycling in 2016.

Lets hope Quintana pounds Froome in the Vuelta.
G, who supposedly wants to be a leading GC rider, well lets just say he found it difficult. I like him so I hope his downfall was due to over exerting himself for plan a, b and c.

Ok, I'll ask. Who is JB?

adr82

No tA Doctor wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

What exactly happened to Porte? I saw him drop a few seconds on Les Planches but perfectly acceptable and then the next time I got to watch he was drifting out of the back on the lower slopes of the Tourmalet with 60km to go and already over 30 minutes down while Nieve was leading the race.

He got smoked badly regardless of what he was on. Gave up.
Lots of riders with crashes and illness finished well ahead of him.
JVB (do not like him) he lost a packet after he got ill and was on antibiotics, but fought bravely every day.
Doesnt matter tho - he is on a team where giving up is accepted.

JB still backing Porte. Im not surprised he failed - he has been awful all year apart from two stages in dauphine and he often struggles when he doesnt have Froome.

One thing is for sure - if JB has a 2015 like 2014 then he isnt going to have a job in road cycling in 2016.

Lets hope Quintana pounds Froome in the Vuelta.
G, who supposedly wants to be a leading GC rider, well lets just say he found it difficult. I like him so I hope his downfall was due to over exerting himself for plan a, b and c.

Ok, I'll ask. Who is JB?

James "Dave" Brailsford?

The_Boy

No tA Doctor wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

What exactly happened to Porte? I saw him drop a few seconds on Les Planches but perfectly acceptable and then the next time I got to watch he was drifting out of the back on the lower slopes of the Tourmalet with 60km to go and already over 30 minutes down while Nieve was leading the race.

He got smoked badly regardless of what he was on. Gave up.
Lots of riders with crashes and illness finished well ahead of him.
JVB (do not like him) he lost a packet after he got ill and was on antibiotics, but fought bravely every day.
Doesnt matter tho - he is on a team where giving up is accepted.

JB still backing Porte. Im not surprised he failed - he has been awful all year apart from two stages in dauphine and he often struggles when he doesnt have Froome.

One thing is for sure - if JB has a 2015 like 2014 then he isnt going to have a job in road cycling in 2016.

Lets hope Quintana pounds Froome in the Vuelta.
G, who supposedly wants to be a leading GC rider, well lets just say he found it difficult. I like him so I hope his downfall was due to over exerting himself for plan a, b and c.

Ok, I'll ask. Who is JB?

Johan Bruyneel?

Macaloon

It's possible that Froome won't ride the Vuelta for GC. Competing after July is out of spreadsheet bounds (but obviously nothing wrong with the formulae), he's been sinjured quite a bit this season, and he'd need top shape and a solid team to take on Quintana.

Big chance for Kennaugh.

Thomas was flogged in this Tour. It's a minor disgrace that he was first donkey off the rank for the suicide break in support of Nieve, after piloting a sick Porte. He was obviously the only rider near competitive shape for the final of a stage. Rather than scatter their depleted resources across several stages, concerted team support of Thomas was worth considering. Given the focus of the team, you can't blame him for finding stage racing attractive. Classics leader and Tour donkey wears you out.

rick_chasey

Shows how tough the sport is really.

Do wonder had Froome stayed upright how able Sky would have been to control the race.

Then again, Nibali hid some fairly big deficiencies in the Astana team. Scarponi was weak, Fuglsang & Westra were excellent in the first week but really weakened as the race went on.

Think we can safely say Saxo was the best team of Sky, Astana and Saxo, minus leaders.

milton50

For the last two years the Sky GT squad has definitely underpeformed relative to what they should be capable of.

That said, if Nibali had crashed out early on, ask yourself how Astana's Tour would have panned out? I don't believe Scarponi, Kangert or Fuglsang could have done significantly better than Nieve or Kyrienka in trying to win a mountain stage, so the likelihood is that they would have come away stage-less and jersey-less as well.

Macaloon

There's been a remarkable predictability in their disappearance from the sharp end when the pace goes up in the final. Completely understandable when saving legs in support of a GC leader, but more puzzling when you've nothing to show but the shirt.

I wonder if they're measuring the wrong thing. Back when he was still a guru, SDB explained a mountain stage to Lionel Birnie: paraphrased as payloads of watts deployed in segments. Perhaps optimizing a rider's performance to peak for intense bursts, while fine in the model, doesn't work so well on the road?

Astana do have the excuse of the longest defence of yellow in a while, and made a point on Hautacam. But both Sky and Astana would have struggled with Roche, seemingly, never mind Rogers, Majka and Contodor.

Pross

FJS wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

G, who supposedly wants to be a leading GC rider, well lets just say he found it difficult. I like him so I hope his downfall was due to over exerting himself for plan a, b and c.

I like him too. I hope sticks to the classics. He can win stuff there

Agreed, I made the same comment when he initially stated his intent to concentrate on being a GC rider over a Classics rider. I get the feeling that's the direction he has been pushed though as Sky are playing to a UK audience who only understand the Tour and Olympics.

frenchfighter

@olegtinkov · Jul 26
it has been disastrous year for #SKY an d i feel sorry for them, cause cycling needs the change and new anglo-saxon management approach

Macaloon

Long interview with Dave on the 'Cast. This forum boasts several world class Wiggologists. Dave's a tougher nut to crack. I detected a glimmer of recognition that engineering a cycling team with the sole objective of delivering 425W up Hautacam, might come with some side-effects.

He's a very bright man, but is crippled by zero-tolerance; denied the benefit of decades of prep/race-craft'. The German football team is a good example of what happens when you combine intelligence with superb athleticism. I think Sky have the athletes, but lack the coaching smarts of the other teams: the new Brazil :!:

adr82

Macaloon wrote:

the new Brazil :!:

Steady on, that's a bit harsh :shock:

Paulie W

Macaloon wrote:

Long interview with Dave on the 'Cast. This forum boasts several world class Wiggologists. Dave's a tougher nut to crack. I detected a glimmer of recognition that engineering a cycling team with the sole objective of delivering 425W up Hautacam, might come with some side-effects.

He's a very bright man, but is crippled by zero-tolerance; denied the benefit of decades of prep/race-craft'. The German football team is a good example of what happens when you combine intelligence with superb athleticism. I think Sky have the athletes, but lack the coaching smarts of the other teams: the new Brazil :!:

I think there is some mileage in the view that Sky's poor season is not just the product of bad luck and that aspects of Sky's approach are proving detrimental to performance in the medium term (inspite of their considerable success in the short term). I also think it worth considering that, while Kerrison and others were originally seen as a breath of fresh air, a new perspective on a tired old sport, they are part of the 'problem' because they dont really 'understand' cycling.

As I say, worth pondering, but not so sure worth making an entire internet 'career' out of.

Macaloon

adr82 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

the new Brazil :!:

Steady on, that's a bit harsh :shock:

Stannard, after a grueling software upgrade.

Pross

Paulie W wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Long interview with Dave on the 'Cast. This forum boasts several world class Wiggologists. Dave's a tougher nut to crack. I detected a glimmer of recognition that engineering a cycling team with the sole objective of delivering 425W up Hautacam, might come with some side-effects.

He's a very bright man, but is crippled by zero-tolerance; denied the benefit of decades of prep/race-craft'. The German football team is a good example of what happens when you combine intelligence with superb athleticism. I think Sky have the athletes, but lack the coaching smarts of the other teams: the new Brazil :!:

I think there is some mileage in the view that Sky's poor season is not just the product of bad luck and that aspects of Sky's approach are proving detrimental to performance in the medium term (inspite of their considerable success in the short term). I also think it worth considering that, while Kerrison and others were originally seen as a breath of fresh air, a new perspective on a tired old sport, they are part of the 'problem' because they dont really 'understand' cycling.

As I say, worth pondering, but not so sure worth making an entire internet 'career' out of.

I argued earlier in the season that Sky / Kerrison were perhaps now starting to realise why 'old school' teams and DSs trained and raced the way they did and that this heavy training / light racing programme was showing signs of being unsustainable. I wouldn't go as far as saying my argument has been proved correct as Froome was a victim of a crash injury rather than illness or fatigue but most of the support riders (and especially Porte) appear jaded and / or illness and injury prone. I don't think it's a coincidence that Nieve was their strongest rider by the end of the race and is in his first season with the team (G was still going pretty well but he's Welsh so harder than the rest ).

adr82

Pross wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Long interview with Dave on the 'Cast. This forum boasts several world class Wiggologists. Dave's a tougher nut to crack. I detected a glimmer of recognition that engineering a cycling team with the sole objective of delivering 425W up Hautacam, might come with some side-effects.

He's a very bright man, but is crippled by zero-tolerance; denied the benefit of decades of prep/race-craft'. The German football team is a good example of what happens when you combine intelligence with superb athleticism. I think Sky have the athletes, but lack the coaching smarts of the other teams: the new Brazil :!:

I think there is some mileage in the view that Sky's poor season is not just the product of bad luck and that aspects of Sky's approach are proving detrimental to performance in the medium term (inspite of their considerable success in the short term). I also think it worth considering that, while Kerrison and others were originally seen as a breath of fresh air, a new perspective on a tired old sport, they are part of the 'problem' because they dont really 'understand' cycling.

As I say, worth pondering, but not so sure worth making an entire internet 'career' out of.

I argued earlier in the season that Sky / Kerrison were perhaps now starting to realise why 'old school' teams and DSs trained and raced the way they did and that this heavy training / light racing programme was showing signs of being unsustainable. I wouldn't go as far as saying my argument has been proved correct as Froome was a victim of a crash injury rather than illness or fatigue but most of the support riders (and especially Porte) appear jaded and / or illness and injury prone. I don't think it's a coincidence that Nieve was their strongest rider by the end of the race and is in his first season with the team (G was still going pretty well but he's Welsh so harder than the rest ).

You wouldn't expect them to change too much in the remainder of this season, but it'll be interesting to see if they make any significant changes over the winter and into the start of next season.