Increasing 2 minute power

supermurph09

Having had a bit of a rethink of my goals for this year I have decided that I'd like my best performance to come on a couple of Hill Climbs coming up in September and October. So in addition to my 3 rides a week (20-30 hilly miles x 2, 40-50 hilly miles x 1) I want to add in a session either outdoors or on the turbo (doesn't matter which) that will bring about an improvement in my 2 minute power, 2 minutes being roughly the time it would take on both those climbs. Both climbs are steep, between 10% and 15% average.

Looking at my power curve data, my current best 2 minute power is 424W, what sessions can I do that will bring about an improvement in that average power and is that all I need to focus on? Just incase it helps, best 1min power is 549W, 5min power is 356W. Current FTP (only ever done one test) is set at 248W.

Thanks

Alex_Simmons/RST

Supermurph09 wrote:

Having had a bit of a rethink of my goals for this year I have decided that I'd like my best performance to come on a couple of Hill Climbs coming up in September and October. So in addition to my 3 rides a week (20-30 hilly miles x 2, 40-50 hilly miles x 1) I want to add in a session either outdoors or on the turbo (doesn't matter which) that will bring about an improvement in my 2 minute power, 2 minutes being roughly the time it would take on both those climbs. Both climbs are steep, between 10% and 15% average.

Looking at my power curve data, my current best 2 minute power is 424W, what sessions can I do that will bring about an improvement in that average power and is that all I need to focus on? Just incase it helps, best 1min power is 549W, 5min power is 356W. Current FTP (only ever done one test) is set at 248W.

Thanks

Your FTP is relatively low given your 5-min power, so that may mean your FTP is underestimated, or that your development priority for improvement is aerobic capacity.

JayKosta

Since your Hill Climb events are only a few months away, my guess (and that's all it is....) is that for improved '2 minute' performance, you need to do training that includes some brutal 2 and 3 minute intervals. If the hills climbs require standing pedaling, then include that in the intervals. You might need to reduce the amount of longer 'endurance rides' in order to accommodate the stress of the new interval training.

If you ride 'for enjoyment', doing serious hill climb training might be an ordeal....

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

Alex_Simmons/RST

Of course speed up steep climbs is all about W/kg. Don't forget any excess body fat will slow you down.

supermurph09

Thanks to both.

Alex, I do feel my FTP will be a little higher as I think I went off too fast last time, I had an idea in my head what it might be, started accordingly but faded badly, this time I will just do the test without having a number in mind if that's the right thing to do. In terms of w/kg I'm 6ft tall and 73KG so I think this is reasonable, I'd probably expect to lose another kilo but no more.

Jay, I do ride for enjoyment, but my definition of enjoyment is riding hard up hill so I think the intervals will be ok for me. I have the drive and want to do well in these events so will be able to focus.

Any specific sessions I can do?

Thanks

sloppyschleckonds

Supermurph09 wrote:

Jay, I do ride for enjoyment, but my definition of enjoyment is riding hard up hill so I think the intervals will be ok for me. I have the drive and want to do well in these events so will be able to focus.

I wouldn't underestimate the level of motivation required to do these intervals.

How are you training at present?

charlie_potatoes

JayKosta wrote:

You might need to reduce the amount of longer 'endurance rides' in order to accommodate the stress of the new interval training.

^This

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

I wouldn't underestimate the level of motivation required to do these intervals.

^And this

supermurph09

I am not doing anything specific at the moment, due to family commitments I have concentrated on riding consistently, to the point now where I have achieved this, hence ready to be able to add structure.

Motivation is high now that I have specific goals in mind, so having an interval session to do, numbers to hit, improvements to make etc I know that I can stick with this, it of course will be hard, I do not underestimate it. This interval session could replace an existing ride, or be extra, but either way it's a session I will be motivated for and stick with hence why I am seeking help with what session I need to do.

I'd see my week as: (all my rides have at least 1000ft elevation per 10 mile)
Monday: 20-30 hilly miles, usually with 3 or 4 targeted efforts of between 2 and 5 minutes / Or replace this with the interval Session
Wednesday: Group ride of 35 miles, efforts on the climbs
Thursday: Interval Session (if not done Monday), I really think doing this on the Turbo would work best for me / Or Rest
Saturday: Solo 35-50 mile ride (Always hilly)

JayKosta

I'd find hills that are similar in length and grade to the Sept/Oct events and do dedicated work on them 1, or perhaps 2 times per week. Or use a larger gear when doing less steep hills.

I do a difficult steep 2 mile hill as part of my rides - it hurts going up, and scary coming down.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

wavefront

My first thought was also your ftp is quite low to your 1/2/5 numbers. Definitely do a retest.

I use the training by power handbook, and the appendix has a lovely collection of workouts, from the simple, to the incredibly complex, to the easy, to the impossible. Using this I've pieced together a plan which has been working great so far with all my numbers improving very well.

There are a number of 2m/3m sessions which could work - one I've tried to do a few times but only get 3/4 of the way through before completely exploding includes 6x2m @ 135% ftp, then 1x6m at 135%. Sure that last interval is a misprint as I can't even get close! Very very demanding. It leaves you tired for a long while.

Also, if you're doing hill climbs with a number on your back - you'll exceed your expectations. I did a month or so ago, with my 1m power best rocketing by 150watts.

supermurph09

Well first "interval" session done tonight, and when I say done I mean messed up!

Found a hill that replicates one of my HC events coming up, albeit steeper, 12% average as opposed to 10%, same distance but more elevation, 205ft, to 185ft.

First interval, I basically went from a standing start and pretty much gave it everything, average power 443W for 2m 17s which I was happy with, my goal time on the HC is to sneak under 2 minutes so a decent barometer. (2 minute power was actually 455W).

2nd interval, I started after only 8 minutes recovery, it wasnt enough, really struggled my way up 378W, 2m 36s.

3rd interval, I attacked but actually bailed after 30 seconds, turned around, rode to bottom and then just rode up best I could, 339W 2m 52s. Not really an interval.

So next time, I think leaving 15 minutes and aiming for 3 solid intervals and then working towards a shorter recovery and more intervals over the next 2 months.

sloppyschleckonds

You probably want to be doing a couple more intervals than 3, with recovery time similar to the effort. Reduce the intensity and make sure you complete the set.

supermurph09

So to aim for 5 or 6 in what would be much slower times but still above threshold power would be better than 3 or 4 quicker efforts with long recoveries?

wavefront

Supermurph09 wrote:

So to aim for 5 or 6 in what would be much slower times but still above threshold power would be better than 3 or 4 quicker efforts with long recoveries?

Have a read of....

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/08/in ... art-5.html

I found it useful to start to understand how different types of intervals work. I'd suggest a HC is very much a anaeobic effort (not a sprint effort), and to improve your anaerobic capacity (to perform better at 2mins) you'd need to greatly shorten your RI. And because of this, to allow you to repeat the effort a good number of times, I'd lower your target power. Still above your VO2 max zone (105-120%) , but lower than your best 2min power. You'll soon find out a power that is taxing, but repeatable several times. For me, if you do an effort at your max/best, that should be a best 'one off' effort, not repeatable, even with 15mins recovery.

HTH.

wavefront

Supermurph09 wrote:

(2 minute power was actually 455W).

Just re-read this - you got a new 2min best by 30 watts (well done!). But not surprised you couldn't repeat it!

supermurph09

wavefront wrote:

Supermurph09 wrote:

(2 minute power was actually 455W).

Just re-read this - you got a new 2min best by 30 watts (well done!). But not surprised you couldn't repeat it!

Yes, I really didn't think this session through!!! I will have a read of the above article but I think aiming for around 325-350W, with shorter recovery and around 6 reps should be achievable. I may even attempt this on the turbo because I think measuring the effort will be easier to control.

Really appreciate peoples input, thanks.

Tom Dean

325-350 might be on the low side if your 5min best is 356. As mentioned above it looks like re-testing FTP would be a good idea.

xscreamsuk

come and do a Cuckney 10, that will be a good guide to FTP if you do the 95% adjustment. There's a huge amount of aerobic requirement in a 2 minute effort, so threshold training will help a lot as well.

supermurph09

Did an FTP test yesterday, really struggled again in the last 5 minutes, moved from 248 to 249, potentially got a bit too warm and should have used turbo tyre as there was a bit of slippage but it is what it is. Did hit a slight increase in my 2 minute power from 455 to 458 (achieved on one of my goal Hill Climbs) the day before though which is encouraging.

sloppyschleckonds

How much improvement were you expecting in 11 days?

supermurph09

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

How much improvement were you expecting in 11 days?

I guess from the comments above about my 2m and 5m power that I thought it may have been higher after a second and better paced test. Doesn't matter to me, the number is the number, I think that having both tests so similar means the first was accurate. Will take on board will people said regarding improvement.