Anyone know my consumer rights with regards a Canyon problem

Gazmania1

Evening all,

Just wondering if anyone would know what my consumer rights are with regards an ongoing problem I have with my Canyon bike.

A brief overview - bought a Ultimate SLX in March this year. It's a great bike, really like it but unfortunately it developed a crack in the seat tube within about 2 weeks of owning it. canyon replaced it quickly and without fuss. Then the replacement frame cracked in the same place after having that for about 2 weeks. Sent the bike back and again Canyon replaced frame without fuss. Now unfortunately the 3rd frame has again cracked in the same place. Canyon are replacing the frame again but they don't have any frames and have to wait for delivery from factory.

The wait for this combined with the time they will take to swap frame over means being without the bike for at least 6 weeks right through the middle of summer.

Being fed up with this I asked Canyon for a refund as after 3 frames in 4 months I'd had enough and don't have any faith in the latest replacement when it arrives. However Canyon have refused as under their T & C's they only refund if returned within 30 days of purchase and unused.

Do I have any rights to request a refund as their product seems to keep failing and despite buying it in March I have only been able to use it for about 2 months, the rest of the time it's been off the road and now I'm faced with a further 6 odd weeks of no riding?

They've not apologised for the inconvenience caused or even offered anything as a goodwill gesture (despite me asking). They aren't being nasty about it, it's all very amicable but I'm a little frustrated that I have an expensive bike that's been pretty much unusable for most of the time I've owned it and have no option but to accept that.

curto80

According to their Ts & Cs yes you are entitled to a refund. Quote this provision in your next correspondence with them:

(3) If the remedy (supplementary performance) pursuant to Section 7 fails or cannot reasonably be expected from the Customer or we refuse to so remedy the defect, the Customer shall be entitled to terminate the sales contract, reduce the purchase price or claim damages or frustrated expenses, in each case in accordance with applicable law; provided, however, that damage claims of the Customer shall be subject to the provisions contained in Section 8 of these General Terms and Conditions.

Gazmania1

Excellent, will try that. Don't really want a refund to be honest but can't face the rest of summer without a bike and there's some good deals going on Cannondale evo HM which would seem a suitable replacement.

Thanks for the reply.

lawrences

Ask for a refund and frustration expenses. They'll only decline one of them.

curto80

Gazmania1 wrote:

Excellent, will try that. Don't really want a refund to be honest but can't face the rest of summer without a bike and there's some good deals going on Cannondale evo HM which would seem a suitable replacement.

Thanks for the reply.

You're welcome. Good luck with it. Be persistent but post back on here if you still don't get anywhere and I'll see if I can get some help from my colleagues in the Dusseldorf office :-)

curto80

Ps: pretty clear the slx is a major screw up. Don't think the SL has had a problem so would you think about going for that instead?

sloppyschleckonds

Curto80 wrote:

Ps: pretty clear the slx is a major screw up. Don't think the SL has had a problem so would you think about going for that instead?

Get the Cannondale Hi-Mod

ferdifatcat

They can't use their terms and conditions to evade their Statutory obligations under the Sale of Goods Contract. Thats what you need to quote at them.

curto80

I think you mean the "Sales of Goods Act", which doesn't apply since the governing law of the transaction is German law. No doubt there is equivalent German legislation that could be useful but on this occasion the terms and conditions of the seller are actually quite helpful because they appear to offer the protection and the remedy that the OP is looking for. If being reminded of their own Ts & Cs isn't enough to convince Canyon then recourse to statutory rights might be a good option, but it shouldn't be required. Always look to the contract first.

darkhairedlord

Did you buy it on a credit card.
If so claim back on that and the card issuer will charge it back to the retailer.

giant_man

Good luck with it Gazmania1, look forward to your update on this.

tmg

Wasn't there a recent thread on same topic recently, Canyon seat post cracking repeatadly - guy who posted was on his third replacement frame if I recall, suggest you do a topic search

Gazmania1

tmg wrote:

Wasn't there a recent thread on same topic recently, Canyon seat post cracking repeatadly - guy who posted was on his third replacement frame if I recall, suggest you do a topic search

Yeah, that was me! Still trying to sort that issue....

curto80

Did you get anywhere today mate?

tmg

Wow, I thought it got sorted. If they are being amicable then I would try and keep it on that level, try to get them to see it from your side and how as a customer they are treating you, points about statutory rights are also spot on. Refund would be the way I would be going as it appears to me that this will drag on and on, get another frame and no doubt it will crack again. Get the money back and buy a Spesh, my frame cracked and within 2 weeks I had a replacement frame (latest model), components switched over by a dealer and £50 voucher for inconvenience, yep its not as exotic as a Canyon but customer service from Spesh UK folk has always been spot on

Gazmania1

Seem to be getting somewhere now after I mentioned their own t&c's. I've been offered a refund or swap the frame or downgrade to the CF SL and have difference refunded. Not sure which one I'll go for but cheers for everyone's advice.

curto80

Glad to hear it and you're very welcome

giant_man

Gazmania1 wrote:

Seem to be getting somewhere now after I mentioned their own t&c's. I've been offered a refund or swap the frame or downgrade to the CF SL and have difference refunded. Not sure which one I'll go for but cheers for everyone's advice.

Interesting, at least you're getting somewhere, nice one mate :P

andrewgas

Have you managed to get a refund? My cf slx cracked after about a month and my replacement frame has now cracked after only 4/5 rides. This is as well as the headset play and threaded plastic thread for the grub screw on the headset.
I can't see the point in getting another frame as the amount of money the bike costs it just isn't fit for purpose.

I also found that the new larger type seat clamp was no good as the seatpost kept slipping/twisting even when the clamp was tightened to its maximum. For reference I was using the standard vcls seatpost.

Gazmania1

I ended up losing my temper with Canyon and demanding a refund. We'd agreed that they were going to downgrade the frame to SL as it's a bit more robust and they would refund me the difference. They said the new frame would ship in 3-5 days. After 2 weeks and no sign of it shipping I emailed them to ask them what was going on. No reply. I emailed them again a few days later - no reply. I sent a 3rd email a few days later and again no reply so I phoned them and explained the whole situation and I was promised a call back that afternoon. No one rang me back. The next morning I phoned again and got through to a different person who said he would leave a message and get the guy from the day before to ring me right back. No phone call. 3 hours late I called again and got through to correct person who just offered me a refund instead.

In total the bike was usable for 56 days out of something like 140 days. I've received no apology from Canyon despite spending an incredible amount of time on this including over 50 emails, repacking the bike twice, hours on hold in 10 minute slots (maximum you can hold for). They've offered me my money back and that's it, no goodwill gesture for the situation or anything despite missing most of the summer for riding.

The final insult was when they said I could have the refund but it would take 2 weeks as they had to send the bike back to Germany to process. When I asked why as they had the bike albeit at UK office I was told that's just the way it is.

Overall a really disappointing experience

darkhairedlord

If I ran an international bike sales co and recently invested in new models and significant growth in sales I might find finances stretched. If I then found my latest model had some design and quality issues resulting in significant returns my bank manager would be getting nervous and I might want to stall any warrantee exchange or refunds, either that or receivers come knocking..... Not that this is the case here....

frazered

That is really shabby of canyon.

bikingjohn

I thought Canyon was a great company until now I read this post...

adamfo

I don't understand why people deal with the monkey and not the organ grinder. Do Canyon in Germany forward enquiries back to Canyon (UK) these days ?
I bought a mountain bike from them 18 months ago. Only sent one email subsequently to info@canyon.com
in Germany asking a question and it was answered within 2 hours.
If Canyon UK are an absolute shower someone should write to Roman Arnold (CEO) in Germany telling him so.
Terry-Thomas would...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_malUGxNloo

charlie_potatoes

adamfo wrote:

Terry-Thomas would...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_malUGxNloo

8)

adamfo

darkhairedlord wrote:

If I ran an international bike sales co and recently invested in new models and significant growth in sales I might find finances stretched. If I then found my latest model had some design and quality issues resulting in significant returns my bank manager would be getting nervous and I might want to stall any warrantee exchange or refunds, either that or receivers come knocking..... Not that this is the case here....

Given Canyon made 30,000 MTBs last year and thousands of alloy road bikes I doubt it.

http://www.canyon.com/_en/about_us/numb ... facts.html

mamba80

darkhairedlord wrote:

If I ran an international bike sales co and recently invested in new models and significant growth in sales I might find finances stretched. If I then found my latest model had some design and quality issues resulting in significant returns my bank manager would be getting nervous and I might want to stall any warrantee exchange or refunds, either that or receivers come knocking..... Not that this is the case here....

I am not defending how Canyon have behaved here.... but we ve only his side of the story and wasn't there a recent warranty issue with a cannondale used in trainer? where CD told the user to sod off?
when I had a warranty issue with shimano on a set of wheels, Madison,Shimano & Merlin didn't give a 4X, it was only when my CC got involved they acted according to the terms of their warranty.

as for significant returns on the cf slx? I ve read of 2.... how many of these bikes do you think Canyon have sold, worldwide?

if there was a major design issue, we d all know about by now.

darkhairedlord

There have been at least half a dozen on this forum, probably more. Some of these have had multiple returns. I''ve no axe to grind but it does look like a significant design fault on this model compounded by the seat post.

Bar Shaker

mamba80 wrote:

as for significant returns on the cf slx? I ve read of 2.... how many of these bikes do you think Canyon have sold, worldwide?

if there was a major design issue, we d all know about by now.

Of the almost twenty people I regularly ride with, 4 have Bianchi Infinitos and two have SuperSixs. None have Canyons. Of my group, over 25% have Di2. Only one other member of that group posts on here.

How many Canyon customers do you think post on here? There are many more than 2 owners that have posted on here with cracked frames, but I would bet that less than 5% of Canyon owners post on here, or anywhere else on bike forums for that matter. There will also be people who do post on here and have had problems, who haven't posted to say theirs has cracked.

It's very easy to think that posts on a forum such as this are indicative of trends or real world distribution.

Only Canyon know the size of the problem but one problem bike can quickly wipe out the profit from the sale of 6 or 7 other bikes. If you try to fix the problem several times and then give a refund, it doesn't take many such customers to wipe out your entire gross profit margin, with a load of work thrown in to boot.

mamba80

look, when shimano has issues with 9000 cables breaking, it was all over WW forum, a 9001 shifter was released, same with their 9000 cassettes and a re design of the carbon spider.
any problem bike/component will end up on the 'net and we all soon get to hear about it, there are no significant reports of SLXs failing....yet :oops:

to me this issue smacks of a batch of frames with a QA issue rather than a design fault, but canyon eventually refunded the purchase price, what more do they need to do?

fwiw I ve a grand canyon cf slx and its been perfect and yes they ve been reports of broken frames on that model too.... the ordering was easy and accurate and canyon were easy to get hold of, even offering a 7 day use it, keep or return option, do you think my local lbs would do that... no chance!

charlie_potatoes

Bar Shaker wrote:

.It's very easy to think that posts on a forum such as this are indicative of trends or real world distribution.

It is and other manufacturers know this.

It's also very easy to think that many of these posts are part of a smear campaign given the amount of people who seem to have joined the forum specifically to comment on this issue.

I'm not suggesting that the problem doesn't exist or that Canyon are great at customer service but the issue as a whole smells a bit fishy to me.

Just saying!