Are cycling specific jackets worth it?

tangled_metal

Are cycling specific jackets worth it? I can't afford more than about £69-80 on a cycling specific cycling waterproof. I have a very good walking waterproof that fits me well, doesn't ride up when my hands are on the bars and is made of the best waterproof fabric out there. Got excellent pit zips and a hood. It's black though.
All I can.afford is the altura night vision. It has less breathable fabric, Scott 1/3rd the vapour transfer rate of my jacket.
Basically an inferior waterproof but are the cycling specific features enough.compensation? Thinking not.
Could just get a hi-viz vest for a few quid to put over my walking jacket when wet in low light and save my money.

arthur_scrimshaw

If your current jacket works then why change? The Altura jacket is OK but probably won't be an improvement. Use the money to buy some decent lights or down the pub!

pblakeney

Your current walking jacket was designed with walking in mind and will simply not breath enough if you are cycling with any effort.
You will not get wet from the rain but you will be wet with sweat.
Which of the two is preferable?

meanredspider

I hardly ever wear a waterproof on the bike. My logic is that I can't see any jacket that covered in rain is going to be "breathable" - certainly not enough to support anything other than pootling. I focus instead on staying warm with windproof fabrics saving my folding waterproof for really heavy downpours or fixing flats. In the end, it doesn't actually rain that much anyway. So, no, if I were you I wouldn't bother with a cycling specific waterproof instead, if you don't have one, I'd get a good windproof.

itboffin

Wise words from MRS

What he said

mr_evil

There are a number of features that make cycling-specific jackets better for cycling, such as longer arms and ventilation. I think it's a worthwhile difference.

meanredspider wrote:

...In the end, it doesn't actually rain that much anyway...

Depends where you live. Last winter, it rained hard enough for me to be glad I was wearing a jacket pretty much every day for several weeks. It's drier in the east, but it still rains frequently.

rolf_f

Stick with what you've got. If you are doing short rides, then non breathable cheapies work perfectly well - I use Aldi ones occasionally on the commute but most of the time I don't bother. If it is summer, then you warm up quickly when the rain stops anyway. In winter, I tend to wear enough layers that any water that does reach my skin isn't moving too much so it all behaves a bit like a wetsuit. As long as you keep cycling, you should remain warm.

I've never had much problem with rain, when cycling, as far as my core goes - what does matter is keeping feet and hands warm and a breathable jacket won't make such a difference there.

Levi_501

Wait for Lidl and Aldi cycle stuff to come in.

anthdci

I find cycling specific jackets are a better fit for your shape when cycling. They are longer at the back so when your leaning forward you backside is still covered. I have a gortex one that has my local cycling clubs branding on and it works really well through winter, but as soon as spring comes its hung up because its too warm. It's better to get wet because not long after its stopped raining the heat from your body has dried your clothes off.

DonDaddyD

My answer is a middle ground between:

meanredspider wrote:

I hardly ever wear a waterproof on the bike. My logic is that I can't see any jacket that covered in rain is going to be "breathable" - certainly not enough to support anything other than pootling. I focus instead on staying warm with windproof fabrics saving my folding waterproof for really heavy downpours or fixing flats. In the end, it doesn't actually rain that much anyway. So, no, if I were you I wouldn't bother with a cycling specific waterproof instead, if you don't have one, I'd get a good windproof.

And

Mr Evil wrote:

There are a number of features that make cycling-specific jackets better for cycling, such as longer arms and ventilation. I think it's a worthwhile difference.

I don't use waterproofs when riding a bike, I do focus on staying warm with windproof and breathable clothing. That said, I do wear cycle specific jackets that are windproof as I find they fit better when riding a bike than standard sports coats.

drlodge

itboffin wrote:

Wise words from MRS

What she said

FTFY ;-) But yes, what MRS says.

You will always get wet in the rain, so key is to keep warm. I bought a jacket 2 years ago and have never worn it.

meanredspider

drlodge wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Wise words from MRS

What she said

FTFY ;-) But yes, what MRS says.

Just call me "HE who must be obeyed"

tangled_metal

It's a climbing jacket. In some ways it's just like cycling jackets. Longer arms, articulated or designed so the jacket won't rise up with your arms up. Close fit to the body, pit zips that work well even in the rain. Longer back but shortish front so doesn't interfere when leaning forward on the bike.
I know from walking breathable waterproofs will not keep you dry. However this one has the design features to give it a lot better chance of coping than most other jackets. I've even used it running in the rain because I'd left my Pertex windproof behind. It kept me dry despite the rain and effort. I'm a sweaty runner too.
My philosophy when in the hills, in a kayak/canoe or on a bike is dry and warm but if not possible I'll go for wet and warm. I'm not bothered by being wet if I'm comfortably warm. I tend to use soft shells in the hills. Went a year and a half without getting my waterproof out despite out every weekend at least once iin the hills.
I'm kind of with Mrs but this waterproof is good enough for cycling to work when dry is more important. As tested in a thunder storm recently.

apreading

Based on that last post, I cant think why you are looking at getting another jacket for cycling. What you have now seems perfect. What are you not happy with on the bike?

One obvious difference is that a cycling jacket wont have a hood (although some have detachable ones) so more aero and less flapping around.

The one thing you seem to be looking to add is low light visibility. Obviously it is too late if you havent already but I would buy a bright jacket for hill walking etc anyway - so that mountain rescue can see you if you get in trouble etc.

If you are totally happy with your current jacket but just want to add reflectives then you have two choices - add them to the bike (you can get black tape that is reflective and not too visible in the day) or get a sam browne type belt (http://www.evanscycles.com/products/mad ... rrency=GBP) or a high vis backpack cover if you wear one. The Sam browne may not be the coolest look though... Alternatively, just get bright lights and dont worry about reflectivity.

msmancunia

In my experience the Altura night vision aren't even that waterproof - I rode home in (admittedly) a downpour and got absolutely soaked to the skin. I'd say it's more shower-proof than waterproof. If the one you've got keeps your lower back dry and doesn't ride up, then I'd stick with that.

tangled_metal

msmancunia wrote:

In my experience the Altura night vision aren't even that waterproof - I rode home in (admittedly) a downpour and got absolutely soaked to the skin. I'd say it's more shower-proof than waterproof. If the one you've got keeps your lower back dry and doesn't ride up, then I'd stick with that.

It could be that you wetted out from the inside through sweat. A lot of people in the walking forums seem to fail to realise that being wet in a waterproof is not always down to the jacket leaking but is more likely to be down to the inability of breathable fabrics to move all moisture (as vapour and as liquid) from the inner face to the outer face. It is made worse when the outside face is sodden due to the DWR layer not shedding water fast enough or the rain is just so heavy or the humidity is so high.

Most fabrics rely on a difference between the interior and the outer faces to give a "force" for the moisture to pass through. Kind of like a concentration gradient or like a gradient due to vertical height (potential energy). On a flat layer a ball will be static (unless given a force to move it). Put it on a slope and it moves. Water in jackets is just like that. Either the fabric provides a "force" to move it such as the heavy pump liner jackets you can buy for walking. Or it relies on a lower level of moisture on the outer face. Wet out that face and there is insufficient or no "gradient" and the jacket feels wet through and people think it is leaking. It is often worse on high wear areas like the shoulders on walking jackets (rucksack straps) or around the arms. Also some water works its way up the sleeves or the body and other weaknesses are the neck (whether hooded or not).

Sorry for the lecture but if you want to make sure the jacket is goosed or not then try giving it a good wash with pure soap or the nikwax techwash washing product then re-proof with their DWR product called TX10i. Or try Grangers equivalent. You might need to heat it up after re-proofing such as a low setting tumble drier, hair drier (with care) or even a very low setting iron (with even more care). Some re-proofers need heat to activate or spread it evenly over the fabric surface (and into the fibres of the fabric too). If it works it will be obvious in that the water beads up and rolls away. This gives it a chance to actually be a breathable fabric.

tangled_metal

I used to ride in a pertex windproof (buffalo wind shirt) and I have a montane walking top now. The buffalo one i grew out of but the montane one is too loose fitting. OK for walking or running but not cycling. A good wicking base layer and one of those and you can cope with most weathers I think. You will need to accept and get used to the idea that wet and warm is ok.

SlipSpace

I find getting rained on is a psychological thing as much as a physical one. I have a "waterproof" in my pack always. It has to be heavy rain for me to wear it and if heavy enough I always end up soaked anyway. In reality all it really does is stop the rain directly hitting my skin which to my subconscious animal brain seems better.

Tangent here but waterproof shoe covers would be something I keep toying with (but haven't over many years). Clothes dry in a few hours, shoes don't.

meanredspider

@tangledmetal. You stated in a long way what I stated earlier in the thread - I simply don't believe "breathable" jackets remain breathable when wet - even if the water is beading (the humidity is going to be high outside the jacket anyway). Add in the high perspiration rates with reasonable energetic cycling and you're going to get wet in your own sweat. Trying to keep water out, I believe, is a fool's errand.

tangled_metal

Assuming I'm energetic on my bike. Trust me I'm a real plodder. If I'm with the family it is 5-8 mph all the way!! Gone are my days of doing 18-24 mph rides into work (calculated after the ride by measuring distance on a map and time taken including stops at junctions and lights).

mr_evil

meanredspider wrote:

...reasonable energetic cycling and you're going to get wet in your own sweat...

Commuting isn't racing; if you don't want to sweat then it's ok to slow down. I find that I can stay dry in the winter (I have an Endura Flyte, which is a hard shell) and still be faster than most other cyclists.

meanredspider

Mr Evil wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

...reasonable energetic cycling and you're going to get wet in your own sweat...

Commuting isn't racing; if you don't want to sweat then it's ok to slow down. I find that I can stay dry in the winter (I have an Endura Flyte, which is a hard shell) and still be faster than most other cyclists.

I suppose that's a fair point. Most Dutch cyclists go at snail's pace too. Personally, I think it's a wasted opportunity if you don't use your commute as exercise. But that's just me.

pblakeney

meanredspider wrote:

I suppose that's a fair point. Most Dutch cyclists go at snail's pace too. Personally, I think it's a wasted opportunity if you don't use your commute as exercise. But that's just me.

I concur.
Why spend time commuting plus time spent exercising/training? Simple time management.

tangled_metal

I don't race or take part in competition. I tour, I ride for leisure (I.e. slow towpaths, mixed use paths etc with family and child.trailer) and commute solely for personal transportation. It's a cheaper transportation for me and more enjoyable than sitting in a car. Also takes the same time to get to work even quicker at times. It's not a waste of a ride or poor time management to go slow. I won't go for a training ride at speed later on.
Basically I'm in a different cycling subset to MRS. There's room on the roads or towpaths or cycle paths for both of us. Me in my hard shell, still dry. You in your softshell wet but warm. Both having fun on the bike in the rain.
P.S. I also wear hard shell trousers cycling. My walking ones not cycle specific.

meanredspider

Yup - that's fine. But breathability isn't then really any sort of issue any more so than any rain coat. Nor is a tight-ish fit as you're doing no speed. In fact you might as well use a cape and keep really dry.

The Rookie

I'm sure Kieran can recommend a cape!

I use an ultra lightweight Howies windproof when it's raining, its enough that I don't get too cold or wet, but it isn't waterproof, just keeps the worst of it off.

arthur_scrimshaw

The Rookie wrote:

I'm sure Kieran can recommend a cape!

I use an ultra lightweight Howies windproof when it's raining, its enough that I don't get too cold or wet, but it isn't waterproof, just keeps the worst of it off.

I've never found a waterproof that truely is never mind a windproof but as you say the main thing is keeping warm.

Initialised

Yes, but only once the temperatures drop below 5C (15C if you're from the south east).

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

I hardly ever wear a waterproof on the bike. My logic is that I can't see any jacket that covered in rain is going to be "breathable" - certainly not enough to support anything other than pootling. I focus instead on staying warm with windproof fabrics saving my folding waterproof for really heavy downpours or fixing flats. In the end, it doesn't actually rain that much anyway. So, no, if I were you I wouldn't bother with a cycling specific waterproof instead, if you don't have one, I'd get a good windproof.

+1

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

I hardly ever wear a waterproof on the bike. My logic is that I can't see any jacket that covered in rain is going to be "breathable" - certainly not enough to support anything other than pootling. I focus instead on staying warm with windproof fabrics saving my folding waterproof for really heavy downpours or fixing flats. In the end, it doesn't actually rain that much anyway. So, no, if I were you I wouldn't bother with a cycling specific waterproof instead, if you don't have one, I'd get a good windproof.

+1

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

I hardly ever wear a waterproof on the bike. My logic is that I can't see any jacket that covered in rain is going to be "breathable" - certainly not enough to support anything other than pootling. I focus instead on staying warm with windproof fabrics saving my folding waterproof for really heavy downpours or fixing flats. In the end, it doesn't actually rain that much anyway. So, no, if I were you I wouldn't bother with a cycling specific waterproof instead, if you don't have one, I'd get a good windproof.

+1