A thorn between two Roses..

sophidog

looking at a retirement treat for my self and have these in mind:-
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-xe ... -vUUJ-vUUK
and
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-xe ... -kNNJ-kNNK

Anyone out there have riding experience of either/both these bikes that they can share please? Really trying to establish just how stiff the CRS-4000 might be; if it's out-and-out racer then probably too much for me. Thing is i really prefer its looks.....more red!

ugo.santalucia

If it's a retirement special gift and you are happy to spend that money, can you not get something a bit more unique than a rebadged Chinese job?
I bet for very similar money you can get a bespoke frame with a decent groupset and artisan built wheels...

THese Rose frames are here today and gone tomorrow... born to be upgraded and superseded... :?

How Far is too Far

Both the Rose bikes look lovely and I am sure they will be nice bikes.

But if it was my money I would spend a bit more on one of these

http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/cannon ... 14-p228576

http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/cannon ... 14-p228575

housemunkey

Got to agree with Ugo here. Retirement treats deserve to be more special than that.

robbo2011

Nothing wrong with the Rose bike, but the 'dale Supersix is the the only other bike I'd consider after my BMC.

rickeverett

lol "re-badged Chinese job" :?: :roll:

yeah like 99% of all bikes. At least they are developed and designed by Rose. and not just off the shelf (which aren't that bad either)

Also they are probably the best overall spec you can get for the money at the moment.

OP might not want a 10-tonne steel wagon from some guy in a shed from Devon.

passout

As above, both nice bikes & decent value I'd say. You just need to decide between racy & not so racy (and getting the size right).

giant_man

rickeverett wrote:

lol "re-badged Chinese job" :?: :roll:

yeah like 99% of all bikes. At least they are developed and designed by Rose. and not just off the shelf (which aren't that bad either)

Also they are probably the best overall spec you can get for the money at the moment.

OP might not want a 10-tonne steel wagon from some guy in a shed from Devon.

Yeah, but so, so dull ... I wouldn't, I really wouldn't .... at least Canyon have something about them ...

ugo.santalucia

rickeverett wrote:

lol "re-badged Chinese job" :?: :roll:

yeah like 99% of all bikes. At least they are developed and designed by Rose. and not just off the shelf (which aren't that bad either)

Also they are probably the best overall spec you can get for the money at the moment.

OP might not want a 10-tonne steel wagon from some guy in a shed from Devon.

The thing is... and you know it, you buy one of these and two years later you want something else, simply because there is nothing special, nothing that stands out, nothing that sets them apart... and that's a fact... they are assembled to be superseded.
I am not suggesting to get a steel bike, I am saying: if it has to be something special, don't go to the Primark of cycling to buy it... especially with a sound budget. It might have great specs, but if two years later you have to flog it at 30% of the value to get something else, better to get lower specs but get something you won't get bored when the leaves fall off the trees... so to speak

drlodge

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I am not suggesting to get a steel bike

I am

Seriously, if its a retirement present to yourself and presumably you expect to have the bike for a long time, look at the various frame builders around, or shops that provide frames and make them up into bikes (the likes of Condor but not so expensive). Just the experience of being measured up and either having a frame designed/built for you or some level of individual needs being catered for is well worth it.

For £2.5k you could get an 853 custom frame (or some off the shelf carbon frame), components, hand built wheels etc made to your specific needs. And I dare say you'd enjoy riding it a whole lot more which is where the proof is.

lawrences

giant man wrote:

rickeverett wrote:

lol "re-badged Chinese job" :?: :roll:

yeah like 99% of all bikes. At least they are developed and designed by Rose. and not just off the shelf (which aren't that bad either)

Also they are probably the best overall spec you can get for the money at the moment.

OP might not want a 10-tonne steel wagon from some guy in a shed from Devon.

Yeah, but so, so dull ... I wouldn't, I really wouldn't .... at least Canyon have something about them ...

Are we thinking of the same Canyon?

curto80

Yeah whatever. Rose make fantastic bikes. There's not really a lot of difference between the CRS and CGF frames in truth. The CRS frame is described as being racier but it will happily go for miles and miles without being uncomfortable, no matter what CyclingPlus says.

curto80

"don't go to the Primark of cycling to buy it"

He's not suggesting he buys a Btwin.

apreading

Surely we can understand what Ugo is saying? He is looking on a retirement treat as something that should give that special buzz that doesnt fade over time. That special-ness that comes from something boutique, bespoke, custom made for you,unique - that gives a pride of ownership which you feel every time you look at or think about it.

On that basis, its not just about the best tool for the job.

However, whether or not this is relevant to the OP is something that only they can decide - do you want a reliable, german/japanese car equivalent or an english/italian equivalent that might make you all tingly while not being as good or reliable all the same.

I think the OP already made their mind up before this post, but no harm in suggesting that they think about an alternative viewpoint before spending that much cash.

Someone in my office has recently started turning up on a Shand Stoater Rohloff in orange/white and it makes me drool every time I see it but its steel, heavy hub gear etc and while I can appreciate those things, I am not sure I would choose it for myself, but I can still lust for it. I can imagine that having picked it out and had it bespoke built they feel very special about it indeed. More than they probably would with an off the peg Specialized, even if that might be lighter and better in other ways.

sophidog

well thanks everyone, your suggestions are greatly appreciated & ugo for one has set me re-thinking the whole thing. A couple of months ago i was thinking Ti but thought that for similar money the groupsets were lower down the chain(sorry, was that a pun?). That's why i was considering the Roses. I do have to be a bit careful as i don't think that i'll be spending large on wheel & groupset upgrades once i'm a pensioner. Back to surveying the options........blinkers off.
I wonder what would ugo would suggest then?

ugo.santalucia

sophidog wrote:

I wonder what would ugo would suggest then?

I am not a big fan of titanium, essentially as they are all grey and boring. I do like steel.
Ritchey Road Logic is a jaw droppingly nice bike (if a bit too grey)... or the Condor Acciaio, al within budget
However, there are carbon bikes which are a little more interesting than those Rose... a little less Tesco and a little more local butcher

curto80

ugo.santalucia wrote:

sophidog wrote:

I wonder what would ugo would suggest then?

I am not a big fan of titanium, essentially as they are all grey and boring. I do like steel.
Ritchey Road Logic is a jaw droppingly nice bike (if a bit too grey)... or the Condor Acciaio, al within budget
However, there are carbon bikes which are a little more interesting than those Rose... a little less Tesco and a little more local butcher

Well it's arguably a step-up from Primark I suppose.

Why don't you throw a few out there so the OP can benefit from your wisdom rather than him trying to give practical meaning to your vague sentiments?

charlie_potatoes

A lot of assumptions being made without knowing a lot about the OP's working life?
He might be one of those 'jobs worth' security guards that takes it all so seriously that he has bought an Alsatian and done his car up to look a bit like a police car complete with warning signs that suggest his dog will smash his way out of the car and eat you to death if you go within 10 feet of it for all we know.

If that's the case then a Rose is about all he deserves.

Just saying

dabber

Whilst I understand the general sentiments that Ugo has expressed I do wonder whether the reaction would have been the same if the OP had expressed an interest in a similarly price Colnago, Cervelo, Wiler etc
Would bikes at this price point be particularly better than the Rose models or is it a case of the brand heritage conveying some sense of romance that, in reality, gives them no real superiority over the offerings from Rose.

lawrences

Ugo just hates Rose's it's not a secret.

Bit of a cycling Hipster. The slower your bike the more time you have to chat to your mates about how it was custom built just for you.

dodgy

giant man wrote:

rickeverett wrote:

lol "re-badged Chinese job" :?: :roll:

yeah like 99% of all bikes. At least they are developed and designed by Rose. and not just off the shelf (which aren't that bad either)

Also they are probably the best overall spec you can get for the money at the moment.

OP might not want a 10-tonne steel wagon from some guy in a shed from Devon.

Yeah, but so, so dull ... I wouldn't, I really wouldn't .... at least Canyon have something about them ...

Yes, going by some recent threads on here, they certainly have 'something' about them.

curto80

dodgy wrote:

giant man wrote:

rickeverett wrote:

lol "re-badged Chinese job" :?: :roll:

yeah like 99% of all bikes. At least they are developed and designed by Rose. and not just off the shelf (which aren't that bad either)

Also they are probably the best overall spec you can get for the money at the moment.

OP might not want a 10-tonne steel wagon from some guy in a shed from Devon.

Yeah, but so, so dull ... I wouldn't, I really wouldn't .... at least Canyon have something about them ...

Yes, going by some recent threads on here, they certainly have 'something' about them.

Is it that they are a "cracking" ride?

curto80

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

A lot of assumptions being made without knowing a lot about the OP's working life?
He might be one of those 'jobs worth' security guards that takes it all so seriously that he has bought an Alsatian and done his car up to look a bit like a police car complete with warning signs that suggest his dog will smash his way out of the car and eat you to death if you go within 10 feet of it for all we know.

If that's the case then a Rose is about all he deserves.

Just saying

Nope, re-read that and still have no idea what you're on about :shock:

curto80

Dabber wrote:

Whilst I understand the general sentiments that Ugo has expressed I do wonder whether the reaction would have been the same if the OP had expressed an interest in a similarly price Colnago, Cervelo, Wiler etc
Would bikes at this price point be particularly better than the Rose models or is it a case of the brand heritage conveying some sense of romance that, in reality, gives them no real superiority over the offerings from Rose.

The frames would be of similar quality, the kit would be of lower quality, generally speaking.

ugo.santalucia

lawrences wrote:

Ugo just hates Rose's it's not a secret.

Bit of a cycling Hipster. The slower your bike the more time you have to chat to your mates about how it was custom built just for you.

I have never had or endorsed a custom built frame. My point is that whilst I loved my Look 253, which I was the sole owner in the south of England, I have never felt anything special for a Specialized Allez Comp. That said, the Allez was a better bike in all possible ways... just there were hundreds of them... even a club mate had one exactly like mine. After all, many own a Focus, but nobody gets particularly excited about having one, yet, fantastic car!

SO, based on my experience, I don't advise the OP to buy a generic mass retailed bike.
Incidentally I have seen a couple of Pearson bikes and they look quite pretty and not too mainstream.

lawrences

I was only poking a little fun btw.

I do agree that having something unique is a big part of loving a bike. Maybe more about knowing that there isn't someone on the next model up just around the corner.

If I had 3 grand to spend on a bike I would start with a frame and spec it up from there. I feel you can get more for your money and tailor it to yourself that way.

antsmithmk

ugo.santalucia wrote:

sophidog wrote:

I wonder what would ugo would suggest then?

I am not a big fan of titanium, essentially as they are all grey and boring. I do like steel.
Ritchey Road Logic is a jaw droppingly nice bike (if a bit too grey)... or the Condor Acciaio, al within budget
However, there are carbon bikes which are a little more interesting than those Rose... a little less Tesco and a little more local butcher

I used to think you were knowledgeable. And In used to respect your opinions

curto80

antsmithmk wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

sophidog wrote:

I wonder what would ugo would suggest then?

I am not a big fan of titanium, essentially as they are all grey and boring. I do like steel.
Ritchey Road Logic is a jaw droppingly nice bike (if a bit too grey)... or the Condor Acciaio, al within budget
However, there are carbon bikes which are a little more interesting than those Rose... a little less Tesco and a little more local butcher

I used to think you were knowledgeable. And In used to respect your opinions

Nah

ugo.santalucia

antsmithmk wrote:

I used to think you were knowledgeable. And In used to respect your opinions

It's very good advice. The best and the most loved can be completely different things. I don't know anyone with a mass retailed bike who doesn't want to change it with the newest model at the earliest opportunity... hence my comment "born to be superseded". Possibly great bike to ride, most likely not a good "retirement gift" as the OP wants.

drlodge

Bike for your heart vs. bike for your head...

jimmythecuckoo

Can wholly recommend Rose.

Service was great, bike is brilliant for the money.

You don't have to over pay to get your dream bike.... worth bearing in mind.