Why am i so s**t at Climbing ?

okgo

Why will it?

drlodge

okgo wrote:

Why will it?

Eh? Forgive me, that is a stupid question. How do athletes get better? They train at what they do. How else are you going to get better at something if you don't actually practice doing that something :roll:

slowbike

okgo wrote:

Why will it?

are you 5?!


ok - assuming you are ( ) then ...

you can get fitter by riding on the flat - but the think with riding on the flat is that you can soft pedal, give yourself a break and recover.
If you ride up a hill there is generally less opportunity to soft pedal or take a break - you may get variances in the gradient which give you a bit of respite, but overall you still have to work.
It's like interval training, only you don't get to choose when to quit unless you stop .. and nobody wants to stop...

You want to get better at long 8% gradients, then find 8% gradients to ride up - you'll get used to the effort level and train yourself to be better at them. Alternatively, you could find a flat bit of road and push really really hard for the same time that you'd go up the hill - it's not entirely the same, but you'll get fitter ...

There.... even a 5yo can understand that!

okgo

Doing the same thing over and over is not the best way to bring results. Otherwise my training plan each week would just have 2 races and 2 time trials, nothing else, but it doesn't, it has a mixture of things that stimulate improvement through different methods.

The bloke has already said he can perfectly well get up climbs, just not as fast as he would like, his riding right now is what you're advocating, he's just riding hills, its not making him any better, clearly, so he needs to mix it up.

drlodge

And I thought rubez was hard work...

markhewitt1978

drlodge wrote:

So how do you get fitter or lose weight? Practice!!! Doing the same thing over and over again will make you better at it. Simples.

Except if you're a taxi driver.

slowbike

okgo wrote:

Doing the same thing over and over is not the best way to bring results. Otherwise my training plan each week would just have 2 races and 2 time trials, nothing else, but it doesn't, it has a mixture of things that stimulate improvement through different methods.

The bloke has already said he can perfectly well get up climbs, just not as fast as he would like, his riding right now is what you're advocating, he's just riding hills, its not making him any better, clearly, so he needs to mix it up.

Yes indeed - I didn't say he should ride up at the same intensity or more or less all the time - I gave no indication to that whatsoever.

Although he gives an indication as to his weekly mileage he doesn't suggest how many hills of what type he tries to go up and what frequency he does it ...

But quite simply - the more he climbs the sorts of hills he wants to get better at then the fitter he will become. If he does just one or two of those hills each fortnight or even month then he won't improve (as much).

okgo

Intensity/duration/regularity etc all stuff that needed to really know how he can get better.

I don't really ride hills all that often but I don't expect to get any worse at them because of it.

Equally I could get better at hills without ever riding up one, as OP could if he wanted to.

davidof

okgo wrote:

Equally I could get better at hills without ever riding up one, as OP could if he wanted to.

You could, interval training/fartlek on the flat would do it. Or just do on a diet if you have a fat ratio > 5%.

neilo23

Use a turbo trainer with a book under the front wheel. That way you can still be at home with your family. You can watch climbing videos on Youtube.
I find that a turbo really helps my climbing as you have to constantly apply pressure, no freewheeling, and you can increase the resistance to simulate going uphill.

ugo.santalucia

Strava is meaningless as a reference. Hit the Alpe d'Huez and you'll never make it in the top 500... hit an unknown climb in Slovenia and you'l be in the top 10 with a similar VAM.
Comparing my times with those on Strava for my local climbs back in Italy, I am always in the top 20, however, my VAM on anything aerobic (a climb of at least 20 minutes) is alway around 950-970.

So, the question is, as you weight the same as me, what's your VAM on a decent climb?

mamba80

drlodge wrote:

okgo wrote:

Why will it?

Eh? Forgive me, that is a stupid question. How do athletes get better? They train at what they do. How else are you going to get better at something if you don't actually practice doing that something :roll:

okgo is correct, if your not very good at something and then just keep doing the same thing over again, you just get better at not doing it very well....does that make sense?

to become fitter you need to have some sort of progression in your training.

to me the OP doesn't do enough riding full stop, 80miles a week is nothing.

ugo.santalucia

mamba80 wrote:

drlodge wrote:

okgo wrote:

Why will it?

Eh? Forgive me, that is a stupid question. How do athletes get better? They train at what they do. How else are you going to get better at something if you don't actually practice doing that something :roll:

okgo is correct, if your not very good at something and then just keep doing the same thing over again, you just get better at not doing it very well....does that make sense?

to become fitter you need to have some sort of progression in your training.

to me the OP doesn't do enough riding full stop, 80miles a week is nothing.

True... I used to do lots of long hilly rides at weekends, while these days I only climb hills when I am in Italy, so very rarely. What I do is a lot of short sharp fast flat rides, namely commutes, which are good interval training. The result is that I am not any slower uphill and surprisingly I can still ride just as far as I used to when I was used to do it weekly, even if now my average ride is just 15-30 miles.
Moral is, you can do the Marmotte every weekend, but it won't make you a better climber... probably just a very tired cyclist

limoneboy

just had a chance to read all this

80 miles a week may not sound like a lot to some , but lets put this in perspective i am not training to race just to keep fit and do the odd sportive every 2 weeks or so . i do as much hilly stuff as i can but the highest point around my way is around 170m so i average about 400-500m per ride going up and down from different directions. the point was really how do i get better at steep climbs , i think i am not really ever going to be great but was looking for some direction on training (the name of the forum section ) i am not fat very low BMI for my age. 30-32 waist is not that of a fat man !

More training yes i agree , and as mentioned i will try reps , does not hurt to try.

interesting i read a article about sportive snobbery in the telegraph - i think you know if this applies to you ,read it we cannot all be early twenties and Contador fit - some of us were riding road bikes or racers as we called them when you were in nappies mine was a ti team.

jgsi

madasahattersley wrote:

At 5'8 and 73kg if you really are as lean as you say you will always be at a slight genetic disadvantage. I was OK on the climbs a few month ago when I was 72kg, but being much taller (just under 6'3) I had the advantage of a bigger aerobic engine than most.

But it's quite simply a matter of you either

a) aren't s**t at climbing
b) weigh too much
c) can't sustain enough power

or (and this is my favourite)

d) use Strava leaderboards as an actual means of telling how good you are.

My entry is:
C
B
D
A

whats the prize btw?

ugo.santalucia

limoneboy wrote:

80 miles a week may not sound like a lot to some , but lets put this in perspective i am not training to race just to keep fit and do the odd sportive every 2 weeks or so .

A sportive every other week? That seems like a full time job to me... :roll:

BrandonA

limoneboy wrote:

just had a chance to read all this

interesting i read a article about sportive snobbery in the telegraph - i think you know if this applies to you ,read it we cannot all be early twenties and Contador fit - some of us were riding road bikes or racers as we called them when you were in nappies mine was a ti team.

That Telegraph article was a waste of space. One man witnesses four people criticizing other riders and makes out like its an epidemic. Obviously I don't condone what the author states he witnessed but this is hardly an epidemic and worthy of an article in a national newspaper. For what we know these four lads may have known the people they were speaking to and it was done in jest. Also how much can one man witness whilst sitting at a top of a hit and cyclists come towards him?

I've never seen this type of behaviour. I usually get a hello or a wave when I see other cyclists.

alpineaddict

Really interested in this thread as I too am trying to train for an Alpine trip I'm doing in August... I read somewhere that doing a steady, reasonable pace, in a straight line, for about 25/30 miles is just the same as training for hills, on short ish hills (as I have around here)... Essentially it is more about fitness than it is about a certain technique... Get fit an should be able to push a low gear up most things...

No idea if that is true or not...???

I don't do too many miles these days, but I'm working my way back up to being a reasonable rider... I 'think' I have always been a reasonable climber as well, and always found enjoyment in pushing myself up hills...

I'm heading out to France in August to make use of the '1 day/1 col' weeks where they close the roads in the mornings on some of the big tour climbs so anyone can amble up and down them :-)

I have a long way to go to probably get fit 'enough' to do these but I will try my hardest...

Whilst I agree that practice makes perfect, it might only work for some... As was pointed out, if you're doing something wrong, you need to correct that before you begin to repeat your training... But what do I know :-)

I don't think it's rocket science tbh with you tho... get fit, train on some hills, and make sure you're the right weight (which gets harder and harder with age )

meanredspider

I think it's mostly true that you can train on the flat. The big difference in my experience is the momentum - you don't have much at low speed going uphill so the speed bleeds off more quickly and the pedal strokes are different. A good headwind is a reasonable proxy for a slope but, even then, weight works with you on the flat into a wind - weight works against you on a hill.

kajjal

As a comparison steep, rocky lose off road climbs are just brutal compared to road climbs. Did one today I had not tried before and really struggled about half way up until it became smoother and flattened out. Even the walkers were taking breaks on the way up. Compared to that road climbs are tough but not as unpredictable requiring as much strength, concentration and bike handling.

meanredspider

Kajjal wrote:

As a comparison steep, rocky lose off road climbs are just brutal compared to road climbs. Did one today I had not tried before and really struggled about half way up until it became smoother and flattened out. Even the walkers were taking breaks on the way up. Compared to that road climbs are tough but not as unpredictable requiring as much strength, concentration and bike handling.

I did what Strava marked as a Cat 2 climb but on fire roads up to a wind farm around here. Towards the top the MTB was struggling for grip and I nearly lost it whilst dodging a large stone. It's a different sort of riding and probably more like a Cat 1 road climb

davidof

What do people mean by a good climber?

For me a reasonable climber will be able to push out a VAM of 1000m/h for an hour; a good climber is probably in the 1200m/h range for a 1000m climb. An aveage climber in the 800m/h range. Feel free to argue about this.

How does the OP shape up?

limoneboy

davidof wrote:

What do people mean by a good climber?

For me a reasonable climber will be able to push out a VAM of 1000m/h for an hour; a good climber is probably in the 1200m/h range for a 1000m climb. An aveage climber in the 800m/h range. Feel free to argue about this.

How does the OP shape up?

Just had a quick tally up of climbs VAM of between 780-850m/h so not feeling SO useless today .average will do

florerider

A VAM of 1000m/h would be a 10km long hill at 10% covered in 1 hour, so the climbing speed would be 10km/hr or 6mph in old money. 800m/h becomes 8kph or 5mph, and 1200 becomes 12 and 7.5 respectively. Seems about right as a measure of how good.

bflk

limoneboy wrote:

davidof wrote:

What do people mean by a good climber?

For me a reasonable climber will be able to push out a VAM of 1000m/h for an hour; a good climber is probably in the 1200m/h range for a 1000m climb. An aveage climber in the 800m/h range. Feel free to argue about this.

How does the OP shape up?

Just had a quick tally up of climbs VAM of between 780-850m/h so not feeling SO useless today .average will do

I have similar figures eg 860 over a 9' local climb. I would say I am better in relative terms climbing than on the flat based on a number of observations including but not limited to Strava rankings. What is the longest flat Strava segment where you clocked 20mph without a following wind? I can barely manage it at all but I am quite light (60kg) and I just think I'm not built for riding fast on the flat. And I definitely enjoy hill climbing more.

davidof

florerider wrote:

A VAM of 1000m/h would be a 10km long hill at 10% covered in 1 hour

and if you are looking for that hill the last 10k of the Mont du Chat near Aix les Bains will do. (l'alpe d'Huez and the Col du Coq are not far off as tests too).