Commuting as training

vimfuego

I thought just wearing anything with a Rapha label on it had the same effect
You'll be telling me there's no Santa next......

tgotb

menthel wrote:

As for cadence, I have no idea as I have no way of measuring but I don't think its low at all- I don't feel as if I am grinding my way along.

When I was a kid and first got a speedo, I had a bit of paper sellotaped to my stem with a table of cadence vs speed in each gear. There are a bunch of online apps that can do the maths for you if you know your gearing.

When you figure out what your "comfortable" cadence is, post back on here.

By all means do weights, but unless you're a track sprinter don't expect it to do your cycling a lot of good. You very rarely push anything close to your own weight on the pedals, so you're not going to do anything in the gym that you can't do better on the bike. There's an argument for doing core stability work, but I don't think that's the problem we're trying to solve here...

menthel

TGOTB wrote:

menthel wrote:

As for cadence, I have no idea as I have no way of measuring but I don't think its low at all- I don't feel as if I am grinding my way along.

When I was a kid and first got a speedo, I had a bit of paper sellotaped to my stem with a table of cadence vs speed in each gear. There are a bunch of online apps that can do the maths for you if you know your gearing.

When you figure out what your "comfortable" cadence is, post back on here.

By all means do weights, but unless you're a track sprinter don't expect it to do your cycling a lot of good. You very rarely push anything close to your own weight on the pedals, so you're not going to do anything in the gym that you can't do better on the bike. There's an argument for doing core stability work, but I don't think that's the problem we're trying to solve here...

I might get a cadence meter for the 00 just to get an idea- they are not exactly expensive.

PT actually does concentrate on core strength/stability- it has been a weakness of mine generally and I feel that it helps quite a lot. The strength sessions are fairly few in comparison to the circuits etc we do. My legs started fairly strong anyway as they used to have to cart 125kg of me around rather than the 85kg there is now.

The Rookie

You don't need a cadance meter, just count your leg rotations for 15 seconds on the second hand of the watch, should be about 22/23.... You'll easily know if you are pedaling at more than once per second just by counting at a sensible speed.

Unless you are climbing out the saddle, you shouldn't be putting any different effort it on hills to on the flat, unlike an internal combustion engine we have a limit beyond which our endurance shortens quite quickly, you need to aim to find that 'power limit' and be able to spin at a constant cadance and power and use the gears to correct it, on that basis no hill is required to practice climbing in the saddle.

I decide each day what to do on my commute, either aiming to go fast the whole way as above looking for that edge on my endurance curve (easier outside of London) or I take it easier and then push really hard for shortish (1.5-2 miles) sections (usually aligned to Strava segments to make it easier to track progress, some are private I made just for the purpose), like the section approaching a sprint finish (but not the sprint itself).

Initialised

markhewitt1978 wrote:

menthel wrote:

What, you mean a lovely new Super Acciaio or Baracchi with some deep rims won't help?!?

No but switching to commuting on a Halfords BSO with massive heavy knobbly tyres might

No, that'll just annoy you when it's still where you left it in the morning!

wandsworth

rower63 wrote:

I've commuted by bike since 1989, and my "style" has remained pretty much unchanged throughout. That is, as far as traffic and conditions allow, full-on all the way. Until around 2.5 years ago, that was 10 miles each way. It was not enough to keep fit for rowing training or racing. I found that if I relied only on the riding, my sculling speed would suffer and my "peers" would beat me.
In November 2011 I moved, and my commute went to 19 miles each way (every day). Still using the same "always-on" philosophy, I've found my riding speed and power has noticeably increased, and the riding alone is now enough to remain stronger and to have improved all my rowing-based measures.
I put it partly down to the fact that it takes 30-40 minutes to warm up properly, the full extent of my former commute, and only then can I really start to hammer it, for instance be able to sustain 400W for 5 minutes and get real training benefit. If I try to do that earlier in my ride, for instance in RP on the way in after only ~16 minutes, my legs will just seize up.

I found the same thing. My basic commute is 9 miles (Wandsworth to Liverpool St) but I found that I was just warming up as I arrived. So now whenever I can I extend it to 15 or 18 miles by going via Wimbledon (allows hill-climbing practice up Church Road!), Putney and Roehampton. Recently, I have started doing that as a matter of course. This means that by the time I get through the slow bits on NKR and on to Embankment my legs are ready for some action. Not enough to trouble many of the people on here (and I've seen rower63's times on some of the Embankment Strava segments ...), but more fun for me. I have also seen my fitness increase noticeably.

anonymousblackfg

Two comments from all the above.

Race pace even at amature level is very hard to simulate, especially on the commute, when I have dipped back into racing it's the races which have dragged my pace up, trying to ride hard as training has helped but no way has prepared me as well as having just got busy in the pack.

I have a decent sprint on the road bike but in the last few years this has been strengthened by really pushing it away from lights on the fixie witha half decent length gear.

As a final suggestion, to add a little structure, why not hit the turbo for 30 minutes before heading out the door?

menthel

Pushed it on the way home this evening- still not enough according to my heart rate- most was in Z3 (rather than Z2) but I set a few PBs. Not bad for a first try, I expect I can push myself up into a higher heart rate zone and it looks like it should give me a fair few PBs etc.

As for the turbo idea, it has a few drawbacks- I have no time in the mornings as I am already up at 6pm and I also have no trainer...

iPete

I pretty much did Ironman with only commuter miles. Like Rower my commute is 20 miles each way, therefore I can only conclude that you move further away

My biggest fitness gains came from re-directing my morning ride via CS8. The pace along there is very quick and trying to match the quick riders soon raises the game.

Gallywomack

Interesting what Rower says about the difference between 9 and 19 miles. Sadly I'm now an ex-silly commuter, but when I was cycling to work every day I found that, specificity being king in training, my 9-10 mile commute got me quite good at riding my 9-10 mile commute, and definitely helped keep weight just about under control (my expanding waistline since my commuting days came to an end proves this beyond doubt), but not a lot else. And I'd say I plateaued pretty early on in my commuting career (say within a year or two) and didn't improve much after that. I could handle a longer ride if it was at bimbling pace, but I'd have been useless at a time-trial or anything that involved putting in a sustained, consistent effort around threshold.

Since having to give up the commute (and a bit of time off the bike) I've been making a half-hearted effort to get out for the odd session on a local loop I've devised, doing either 'threshold' sessions over 21 miles (which takes me about 1 hour 10) or '2 x 20' sessions over 2 x 7 miles with 5 mins in between. As a result of this training, which hasn't even been particularly consistent, I'd say I'm a lot stronger now in terms of putting in a sustained effort than when I was commuting every day. Which probably means I'd be able to perform better now in most forms of competitive cycling (apart from SCR, perhaps!).

So I'd say that, unless you are able to up your milage in some way, you are unlikely to make too much progress beyond a certain point. And if you're keen on doing TTs, I think you have to work at least sometimes at putting in that kind of sustained effort - just to learn the skill, if anything. I tend to think structure is the best way to make progress in any kind of training (that's what works for me, anyway), and for me the commute is too unstructured and variable (traffic, choppers etc). But if you can find a way to introduce some structure and progression, that might help too.

itboffin

I've wasted a lot of commuting miles by bimbling around, no i have no choice but ride to and from work 5 days a week, I've changed my approach.

There no flat route but the flatter of the two I use for speed training, trying to keep 20 mph avg over 16 miles which with the few small steep climbs requires 23+ avg

On the way home now i'm pushing the big ring and hauling my heavy panniers over 1000ft of climbing, my London commute is basically me just getting from A to B without dieing - no way i'd try and train in London :?

Basically matey you have to move to the countryside

alansd1980

I tried to use commuting miles to train for mtb racing, not ideal like everyone has mentioned due to not being able to control your own pace. I found commuting fewer days but extending the ride in/home for more uninterrupted stretches was more useful. Going from central london to raynes park is not going to be an easy route to use for training. I go out to banstead so the second half is more free flowing. I use this section for some intervals and I also have a resonable amount of climbing on my way home. Your best option is to try to extend your route to some uninterrupted stretches. Even with a couple of hours you will be surprised how far out you can get.

What about heading to richmond park and then down through chessington - leatherhead -dorking- up box hill- epsom downs-epsom-A24 then back along grand drive into raynes park?

pblakeney

The most important aspect has been overlooked.

Keep going through the winter.

itboffin

All that being said headwinds like last night & this morning change any pre planned session into a waste of energy.

MrSweary

Interesting thread. I think I'm at a point where I've plateau'd after a few years of more speedy and longer distance (for me) commuting. I'm sure I'll start to see some benefits now I'm going over Crystal Palace Hill every day but I'm very concious of needing to push myself to get beyond my current level.

At the same time I know I need to manage fatigue too. As it stands I'm commuting (only 12 miles each way) 4-5 days a week and not really riding at all at weekends (having just moved house). I'm finding that by the end of the week my legs are pretty tired and I'm knackered in the evenings - I guess this is a good sign because I was doing 5 days a week from Twickenham without ill effects. However, it impedes my ability to put in focused efforts on a regular basis. I think perhaps reducung to 3-4 days with some weekend riding and more focussed efforts on the hills and the few straights where I can safely maintain speed for a few minutes is the answer.

I just can't bring myself to get on the train when its so sunny outside!

jedster

As it stands I'm commuting (only 12 miles each way) 4-5 days a week and not really riding at all at weekends (having just moved house). I'm finding that by the end of the week my legs are pretty tired

Very similar situation for me apart from moving house. In theory I'd like to add a long ride at the weekend but like you say, my legs are tired. Bigger issue is time, I don't see much of the kids in the week so they take priority at the weekend. I ended up being pleased if I can get a quick swim, run or gym session in at the weekend.

jedster

that said, the nurse was complementary about my resting heart rate, lung capacity and blood pressure at my last medical so the commute is doing some good

tgotb

MrSweary wrote:

At the same time I know I need to manage fatigue too.

I used to follow the "managing fatigue" line, but I'm pretty sure it actually stopped me doing enough training; I suspect it's actually pretty hard to overdo it on 2 hours training a day unless the intensity is very high indeed. Quite often your legs will feel like lead, but if you warm up sensibly and then put in a few hard digs you'll find they have a lot more in them than you thought. Sometimes a bit of real intensity is just the thing to shake off that lethargy.

If your legs feel tired the day after a hard race or a really heavy intervals session, take it easy; if they feel tired after a few day's normal riding, experiment with a few flat-out 2-3 min intervals and see how you feel at the time, and (probably more importantly) a few hours later.

tgotb

Another thought - I can probably count the number of days this year that I haven't had achy legs, on the fingers of one hand. In previous years I'd have taken this as a cue to back off...

jzed

I'm in the TGOTB camp. For 10 miles each way there's ample time for recovery between each commute. Ride the commute as hard as you can safely. Maybe try and work in 4 week blocks. Aim to keep pushing harder from week 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 and then pootle for the 4th week.

If you can then fitting in a lap of the park as often as possible. There really is no substitute for 20 minutes of continuous effort.

Also for 10 mile TT's, I'm working on the basis that doing them regularly is the best way to get better at them.

rower63

TGOTB wrote:

Quite often your legs will feel like lead, but if you warm up sensibly and then put in a few hard digs you'll find they have a lot more in them than you thought. Sometimes a bit of real intensity is just the thing to shake off that lethargy.

+1
warm-up is the least glamorous but IMO up there with the most important factors in the quality of a performance

rower63

TGOTB wrote:

Quite often your legs will feel like lead, but if you warm up sensibly and then put in a few hard digs you'll find they have a lot more in them than you thought. Sometimes a bit of real intensity is just the thing to shake off that lethargy.

+1
warm-up is the least glamorous but IMO up there with the most important factors in the quality of a performance

okgo

I'll go against the grain and say that the commute is almost useless to me as training, massively taxing in the wrong way on the legs, with the stop start nature of it, nowhere to do any sustained effort beyond a minute or two, etc etc.

The only reason I commute is to keep the weight in check, and because I don't like spending money on SW trains.

There is absolutely no way I'd be any good if I just used commuting as my training. There are countless ways to get better at certain aspects of riding, and doing those certain aspects over and over will only ever get you so far. i.e. riding 10 miles as hard as you can is not going to get you to the best you can be at 10 mile time trials.

MrSweary

More good advice I think - especially about pushing through. I'm not training for anything in particular but I like to see continual improvement so I think I'll identify a few sections where I can safely put in sustained effort (lucky to have the hills in that respect) and see how that goes. Plus I want to catch that bas*ard riding fixed who keeps dropping me like a bitey striker on College Road....

Perhaps also I have to give up my dreams of riding in the pro-peloton

menthel

Thanks all, this has generated lots of good ideas. I will push on my commutes, getting to RiP as much as possible and hit the hills as and when possible. I will also look into doing more TTs- I know that KW have theirs from Dorking so not too hard to get to- are there any others within easy travelling distance? With family and work I am fairly time limited as I do like to see my wife and son fairly frequently!