Forum home Mountain biking forum MTB general

Cup & cone hubs

RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
edited June 2014 in MTB general
Why can't they all be as good as Shimano?
One adjustment and lube in 3000 miles.
«1

Posts

  • Chunkers1980Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    Because no one but them seem to make them these days?
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Most cheap hubs are cup and cone - millions are made, but Shimano do them very well.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    My other hubs would need new bearings by now but a strip, clean and fresh grease and they feel like new again.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    Because no one but them seem to make them these days?

    And for good reason. I'd never, ever buy a wheelset with cup and cone hubs.

  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    lawman wrote:
    Because no one but them seem to make them these days?

    And for good reason. I'd never, ever buy a
    wheelset with cup and cone hubs.

    Thats what I thought until I tried these Shimano hubs, and these are low end ones (below Deore, forget which model).
    They're a lot better than some of the cartridge bearing hubs I have owned.
    I have also had Formula cup and cone hubs . There is not a profanity strong enough to describe them.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    lawman wrote:
    Because no one but them seem to make them these days?

    And for good reason. I'd never, ever buy a wheelset with cup and cone hubs.
    That's because you are still a children.
    Easy to work on, freer running than (most/all) cartridge. Will last forever with a bit of grease. I have some Mountain Exage on a bike going on for thirty years old. Still perfect. And older than you.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    For commuter bikes in particular I think they are perfect.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    cooldad wrote:
    lawman wrote:
    Because no one but them seem to make them these days?

    And for good reason. I'd never, ever buy a wheelset with cup and cone hubs.
    That's because you are still a children.
    Easy to work on, freer running than (most/all) cartridge. Will last forever with a bit of grease. I have some Mountain Exage on a bike going on for thirty years old. Still perfect. And older than you.

    I get the supposed advantages, but my experience has been shite to say the least. I had m525 hubs and XT's and both needed pretty much constant maintenance, tightening and greasing every couple of months and eventually the freehubs died. in 3 years of owning my pro2's on the other hand the only issue I've had was a snapped axle and that's an issue that's been solved on newer models. So from experience, I'm not overly fond of cup and cone hubs.

    Add in the fact they're very heavy, even at XTR level, you can't swap the axles for different standards so if you change forks/frame you're farked and I can't say as I've never taken any notice of the perceived freer running and I don't many could. Perhaps ideal for a commuter as suggested, but on an mtb? No. Way.

  • Chunkers1980Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    You get me wrong. I'd have a set, but no one (decent/value is what I meant) seems to make them
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    XTR are lighter than Pro2. 268g for the M985 rear. Costs a bit more, but what a hub. Axle/shell breakages are very rare.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    supersonic wrote:
    XTR are lighter than Pro2. 268g for the M985 rear. Costs a bit more, but what a hub. Axle/shell breakages are very rare.

    £50 more and the thru-axle version is 320g or there abouts so about the same weight. I just don't get why people like them so much, people moan and whinge about things not being compatible and with expensive stuff like wheels I like to keep my options open, so on that reason alone I wouldn't buy them. Add in the average weight and potential maintenance issues and I just cannot see why they are so highly praised. I just think if they really are that good, then why isn't the rest of industry using them?

  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Shimano make and sell more hubs than the rest of the industry put together. Obviously this dwindles at the top end. But the maintenance is easy, the freehubs are brilliant. Some people want hubs that are specific to the job, not something with adaptors in with the same dimensions as a QR hub. Which some view as a bodge.

    There is a market, they work well, and seem smoother and freer running than others, especially hope.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    Hope bearings are really very draggy, I was offered some HT2 bearings or some HT2 XT, the XT were much less draggy.

    I have M475 hubs on my commuter, both bought used, both regreased when I bought them, both were regreased again after 2000 miles (though they didn't need it), probably could do with it as they have just done another 2000 miles, the balls and diameters are bigger than those in most cartridge bearings so theoretically a superior performance, just as well sealed. Yes they take a bit more 'faff' but are cheaper and easier to look after if you put in the time.
  • GiraffotoGiraffoto Posts: 2,078
    . . . I had m525 hubs and XT's and both needed pretty much constant maintenance, tightening and greasing every couple of months and eventually the freehubs died. . .

    Freehubs I can't comment on, but if you set them up properly and don't subject them to jet washers, they shouldn't need constant maintenance.
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    Giraffoto wrote:
    . . . I had m525 hubs and XT's and both needed pretty much constant maintenance, tightening and greasing every couple of months and eventually the freehubs died. . .

    Freehubs I can't comment on, but if you set them up properly and don't subject them to jet washers, they shouldn't need constant maintenance.

    I try to never jet wash my bikes, certainly my old bikes with cup and cone weren't. They were setup properly I can assure you anyway. Maybe I was unlucky but it's just faff isn't it? Sure it's an easy job, but IMO it's a job that shouldn't need doing. If you had to bleed your brakes every few months you'd get rid of them, so why should hubs be any different.

  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    It usually doesn't need doing at the higher end this much. Maybe more with Alivio, and 10 quid Tourney level hubs, but often you peak inside an XT/SLX/XTR and the grease is fresh still. And it's not like you don't have to keep an eye on Hope's pull off freehub either.

    It's horses for courses, both have pros and cons, but poor hubs they certainly are not. I would like to see something fill the price gap between XT and XTR though. Maybe XTR innards, alu freehub body with metal pins. That ti unit is like a jewel but whacks the price up very high.
  • Chunkers1980Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    Yeah. XT rear is ~£45, XTR ~£200

    In most stuff XTR is 2/2.5 times the cost of XT but in hubs it's not the case.
  • fridgehqfridgehq Posts: 54
    I ride all year round offroad I have XT front and rear and just love the simple way you can work on them also the rolling is superb seems to freewheel forever and still going strong in 2 years since then I have had to replace my Sealed cartridge headset bearing twice in that time and bottom bracket cartridge bearing once.
  • swod1swod1 Posts: 1,639
    yeah shimano are decent, my xt hub in the rear wheel was sounding rough after 3500miles but regrease and everything is well again but in the front wheel with a cheaper shimano hub is fine, how does that work ?
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    luck...... plus the bearings themselves are pretty much identical and you have more weight on the rear.
  • njee20njee20 Posts: 9,613
    For commuter bikes in particular I think they are perfect.

    See that's where I don't think they're as good. I absolutely trash my commuter/winter road bike, so something which can (and in the case of some Ultegra hubs did) get to an irreparable state isn't ideal! Admittedly you can bash new cups in, and replace cones and what not, but for a commuter bike I do like cartridge bearings.

    Spinning an XTR/Dura Ace wheel in your hands is an absolute joy though!
  • MccraqueMccraque Posts: 819
    I got fed up with my cup and cone Shimano hubs although I still sort of like them as I know how to service them. But I don't want to be doing it every couple of months. Additionally, my hubs had a knack of rattling loose (I started carrying cone spanners with me!) - but threadlock has solved this.

    But of all the wheels I have...the Shimano are still running. My Hope Hub has been rebuilt as has my Easton (both warranty). The superstars are alright though!
  • gazcarsf1gazcarsf1 Posts: 130
    Xt hubs on my cube, stripped out & cleaned twice since 2011, no issues in that time & the cones have never slackened off ever. A piece of cake to service, and they run and freewheel great. Only serviced them the twice, as the bike gets used all year, and i wanted to check they were ok,
    Cube reaction gtc race 2011 26er, Canyon spectral al 8.0 2014, cube reaction gtc race 2015 29er
    How much for that!!!!!
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    Mccraque wrote:
    But I don't want to be doing it every couple of months.
    I don't know how many miles you do, but mine I do every 2k miles (about 2 years), no sign (when I do do them) they needed to be done any earlier.

    My only slight criticism would be that the OE grease isn't as good as it could be, any failures usually seem to happen in early life, I like red rubber grease as it's thick and gloopy and waterproof.
  • fridgehqfridgehq Posts: 54
    I agree with above always use my own grease when new
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    So in order to stay tip top you say that they need stripping and re-greasing from new?! How the hell can people think they're so great? :lol:

  • photonic69photonic69 Posts: 1,135
    Where can you buy replacement Shimano axles, cones and bearings to replace a worn set? Is there a generic set? I've only found them on SJS Cycles and they seem to be for specific hubs. Any pointers most welcome. Wifey's front bearing is a little worn on the cones c
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    lawman wrote:
    So in order to stay tip top you say that they need stripping and re-greasing from new?! How the hell can people think they're so great? :lol:

    Mine did 3000+ miles in all weather before I regreased. Loads of grease still in there, still pretty clean as well.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    PhotoNic69 wrote:
    Where can you buy replacement Shimano axles, cones and bearings to replace a worn set? Is there a generic set? I've only found them on SJS Cycles and they seem to be for specific hubs. Any pointers most welcome. Wifey's front bearing is a little worn on the cones c
    Lots of places sell the parts, but yes different hubs use different parts, for example most MTB front hubs use a 10mm axle turned down to 9mm at the ends to suite the dropouts while the road front hubs are a genuine 9mm axle. You also need the right width cones to give the right width OLD depending on the width between cones.
  • photonic69photonic69 Posts: 1,135
    The Rookie wrote:
    Lots of places sell the parts, but yes different hubs use different parts, for example most MTB front hubs use a 10mm axle turned down to 9mm at the ends to suite the dropouts while the road front hubs are a genuine 9mm axle. You also need the right width cones to give the right width OLD depending on the width between cones.

    Ah. OK. I figured that basic hybrid hubs were a bit more generic. From measurements I have the axle is 9mm throughout incl thread. The cone OD is 15mm. Cone length is 11.5mm. The over all length is 108mm. No idea of make I'm afraid. As found on 2012 Claud Butler womens hybrid.

    Any ideas?
Sign In or Register to comment.