A day in the sun

michaelede

Ladies / Gents,
I need some help, doing my first century (107 miles over Dartmoor) on Sunday and I am really worried it is going to be sunny. I am quite worried about overheating and getting sunburnt especially as I know I will feel obliged to push on given that I am being sponsored. I am a novice and reckon I will be pushing my limits on a cool day and who knows if it is warm / hot.

So can I have some specific pointers as to what to do (i.e. specific brands of sun cream people have had good results with, i've been told to avoid oil based ones as they stop you sweating but WTF are they? I've looked at the ingredients on the stuff we have here and it looks like gibberish), clothing tips (got a spf50 jersey last weekend) and any advice on what not to do. Will take plenty of fluids and electrolytes with me.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

IShotYou

I wouldn't be worried about the sun. I'd be worried about doing your first century.....and it being on the Classic!

I use Tesco kids SPF50, that comes in a pump dispenser http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=267964705. Don't know about all that oil faff, but it stops me burning, which is what it's all about.

Good luck on Sunday-I'm sure your sponsorship will get you through it.

hypster

I use P20 SPF 50 for all-day rides and it seems okay. Whatever you use don't put any cream on your forehead (assuming you are wearing a helmet). You won't need it and any sweat will just wash the sun cream in your eyes with disastrous results.

On the hydration front don't be tempted to drink too much just because you think it is hot. Around 500 ml per hour should be enough unless it is really hot and/or arduous and you are sweating a lot. Listen to what your body is telling you and drink to thirst. As far as electrolytes are concerned I stopped using them even for hot century rides and have suffered no ill effects. Some people say they prevent cramp but there is no evidence either way on this.

Difficult to suggest an energy strategy because everyone's tastes are different and you don't say what you have been doing up 'til now. Just don't be tempted to pack down too much solid food otherwise you could end up with gastric distress which will be hard to overcome. You need to restrict yourself to about 60g of carbohydrate per hour from all sources. As a rough rule of thumb that's maybe one banana, half a (typical) flapjack bar and maybe one energy gel. If you're using energy drink then you will need to allow for this as well.

Think about what you might be consuming on the ride before the actual day (I presume the ride has feed stations?) Carry 2-3 gels for emergencies just in case you do get things wrong and hit the wall energy-wise. They are quickly absorbed and will give you some quick energy to get you over the "bonk". One gel will be good for 20-30 minutes.

Hope that helps and have a good one.

Mikey23

Doing the midi classic, my first. Knowing dartmoor as i do, it may well be raining and i doubt if it will be excessively hot. I will chuck on which ever sun cream is in the cupboard. Light top and something warmer in the back pocket just in case. More importantly, stay well hydrated, eat appropriately, set out at a conservative pace, avoid the racing idiots and enjoy the day

supermurph09

As mentioned what ever you use ensure it gets nowhere near your eyes. I'd suggest a head band as a bandana that covers your head would be too warm at this time of year.

As for cream, I'm not exactly a bronzed god and I have a shaven head but I use Piz Buin All Day Long: http://www.boots.com/en/PIZ-BUIN%C2%AE- ... l+Products

Never burned once with that on, plenty of times without it.

ai_1

I use either Parasol or Nivea sunscreens and have found that either one holds up very well for several hours and doesn't wash off with sweat. I used the Nivea one (SPF 20 I think) for a 200km ride last June in 28-30 degree heat and a cloudless sky and was fine at the end of it. I'm very fair skinned and burn very easily so this was a good test for it. Both of these are oil based rather than creams. I'm sure most water resistant sunscreens will work fine.

I hate running in high temperatures but on the bike you'll have enough airflow over your body most of the time to keep you comfortable. Long climbs can be hot and difficult but I expect you'll be fine on the flatter sections and descents. A mesh base layer may help keep you cool and comfortable.

Most important thing to remember is to keep hydrated. You need to sweat to keep cool and if you get dehydrated you could really suffer. I often use just water on short rides but eletrolyte tablets in your bottle seem to help on longer hot weather rides (or maybe it's just in my head).

gethinceri

P20.

meanredspider

You'll be fine. Go at your pace and don't, whatever you do, start too fast. This is by far the most common mistake. You should be able to hold a conversation throughout your entire ride (including all but the steepest hills).

Drink regularly and DO add electrolytes (especially if it's hot). I'm just back from an Alpine cycling event. At the end there were plenty of people being treated for dehydration and exhaustion (none for over-hydration out of 5500 athletes). Just don't drink too much before the start. Rest up for most of the week. And, most of all, enjoy it - that's how you'll go your fastest.

t4tomo

hypster wrote:

Whatever you use don't put any cream on your forehead (assuming you are wearing a helmet). You won't need it and any sweat will just wash the sun cream in your eyes with disastrous results.
.

wish I'd read that a week ago. I can confirm it doesn't half sting.

drlodge

Boots SPF50 suncream on back of the neck and arms (don't forget the white insides of your arms)

Plenty of drink - High5 Isotonic which provides both some carbohydrate and eletroclytes.

Take it easy, take some food and you'll be fine.

hypster

meanredspider wrote:

At the end there were plenty of people being treated for dehydration and exhaustion (none for over-hydration out of 5500 athletes).

How do you know? There are plenty of documented cases where people are being "treated" for dehydration when that's not what they have at all, it's just assumed. Who was treating them as well? Some well-meaning volunteer no doubt giving them extra fluid to drink without any sort of medical examination.

Tjgoodhew

I wouldnt worry too much about the overheating. Remeber you have a lovely breeze whilst riding which should keep you cool.

On long warm rides i tend to have two bottles - one with an energy drink or electrolyte tab and the other plain water. The energy drink for drinking and the water mainly for cooling down at the top of a climb. Water on the back of the neck feels like heaven when you feel yourself heating up !!

Good luck and just keep in your mind that warm sunshine is much better than freezing rain and wind

meanredspider

hypster wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

At the end there were plenty of people being treated for dehydration and exhaustion (none for over-hydration out of 5500 athletes).

How do you know? There are plenty of documented cases where people are being "treated" for dehydration when that's not what they have at all, it's just assumed. Who was treating them as well? Some well-meaning volunteer no doubt giving them extra fluid to drink without any sort of medical examination.

Because one of my team ended up on a drip in the medical building (his core temp had dropped to 35C). Not "well-meaning" volunteers but full-blown A&E doctors from NL. Hence I asked them about over-hydration. They're aware that it happens occasionally but they said dehydration is infinitely more common on that event. They also recommended electrolytes. There were 6 people on drips when we arrived.

BTW - I'd still like to see a reference to over-hydration of a cyclist. Whilst I understand you've taken this stuff to heart, I still don't think it's a big problem for cyclists - at least, there's zero data that I could find that it is.

meanredspider

Tjgoodhew wrote:

Water on the back of the neck feels like heaven when you feel yourself heating up !!

Absolutely right. It was 33C and 94%RH during the hottest part of the day on the Alpe. They were handing out sponges which were just magic squeezed on your neck!

hypster

meanredspider wrote:

BTW - I'd still like to see a reference to over-hydration of a cyclist. Whilst I understand you've taken this stuff to heart, I still don't think it's a big problem for cyclists - at least, there's zero data that I could find that it is.

All the research that has been done so far relates to runners and triathletes so some relevance to cycling. Just because there has been no specific research done in to endurance cycling doesn't mean that over-hydration isn't a real possibility. After all, what is the most arduous activity, cycling or running?

Also, the fact that there doesn't appear to any documented cases of over-hydration in cyclists doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There could be a number of reasons for that, the most likely in my opinion is that it just isn't widely understood to be a problem and is invariably diagnosed to be the complete opposite of what is actually happening i.e. on a hot day the victim assumes the problem is caused by dehydration rather the over-hydration. It does happen and it has happened to me on several occasions in the past before I realised what was going on.

The biggest problem is not with experienced or elite riders going at a high pace but with relatively sedate recreational cyclists who take on board the "hydrate as much as possible" message even if they don't need it. The problem lies with the myth "if you drink when you are thirsty, it's too late" lie which has been perpetrated by the drinks companies.

Drink according to your thirst signal is all you need to do.

meanredspider

I don't want to re-hash the same argument but, if you're going to use documented cases of over-hydration in what you write, it needs to be related to the sport we're talking about. Running is far more arduous than cycling. Runners on mass-participation events also don't tend to carry their water but rely on lots and lots of water stations with effectively unlimited water. Most cycling events I've ever done rarely have a feed station more often than every hour - normally less often than that. You're speculating that over-hydration occurs in cycling. I've witnessed dehydration in cycling.

hypster

meanredspider wrote:

I don't want to re-hash the same argument but, if you're going to use documented cases of over-hydration in what you write, it needs to be related to the sport we're talking about. Running is far more arduous than cycling. Runners on mass-participation events also don't tend to carry their water but rely on lots and lots of water stations with effectively unlimited water. Most cycling events I've ever done rarely have a feed station more often than every hour - normally less often than that. You're speculating that over-hydration occurs in cycling. I've witnessed dehydration in cycling.

I don't really understand your logic and why you dismiss the possibility that overhydration can occur in any sport. Surely if running is more arduous than cycling it would be less likely that we would see cases of hyponatremia in runners but there are several well-documented cases of deaths in marathons which is why this problem is starting to get attention.

The fact that runners can't carry any substantial amounts of water and rely on feed stations whereas cyclists can, indicates to me that overhydration could be even more likely in cyclists who can drink virtually at will. Having filled two 750ml bottles at the last stop they know they have maybe an hour or two before the next one so they empty both bottles. Tell me that doesn't happen because I've seen cyclists do it all the time.

This is in a sport where you freely admit is less arduous than running. How can overhydration NOT be a possibility? I've witnessed it first hand and as I said before have suffered the symptoms of mild hyponatremia for several days after a ride before I even realised what it was. I've even made it worse after a ride assuming I was dehydrated when quite the opposite was true.

This may not apply to you which is why you are so dismissive of the research but I'm sure there are many endurance cyclists at risk out there that have bought into the "hydrate, hydrate, hydrate" fantasy. That's all I'm going to say on this matter for now, as you say we are rehashing the same arguments. You can have the last word if you like.

Mikey23

All interesting stuff but not what the OP was asking.
Finally word from me... 107 on dartmoor is a heck of a challenge. You will have the option to switch. Dont be too proud to do so just to please your sponsors

meanredspider

I'm dismissive about it because there's no evidence that it happens. By your logic, people that go for a Sunday stroll will inevitably over-hydrate because it's not at all strenuous. And 2x 750ml bidons in 2 hours is what the Good Doctor actually recommends (400-800ml per hour). What worries me, in relation to this thread, is that people really DO suffer from dehydration on cycling events (I've seen them with my own eyes only 2 weeks ago). When there's documented cases of over-hydration in cycling, let's look at it again, but in the meantime it's pure speculation and not helpful.

michaelede

Thanks for the tips, going to give the P20 a try(thank you Amazon prime!).
It has now occurred to me that there will be a number of places I can stop and sit in the river dart for 5 or 10 minutes if I get to hot.
I live a couple of miles from the start of the route and it is already toasty so reckon tomorrow will be a scorcher.

Re: over hydration, if I understand it right, calling it that is pretty confusing as the real problem is an electrolyte imbalance due to over consumption of fluid rather than to much fluid? Given that this can be very simply avoided by using an electrolyte tab in even an excessive volume of fluid then surely the only remaining risk is dehydration? I know from experience that I can sweat more than two litres in an hour when working hard (weighed myself before and after hard hot sessions of cycling and many years ago doing karate / grappling sessions) given that @ 88kg that is greater than 2% of bodyweight and you start seeing problems @ 2-3% of bodyweight lost, then surely just looking at the balance of risks tells me that I should be more worried about dehydration than washing out all of my electrolytes as a simple step removes that risk (adding an electrolyte tab) in the documented cases of over hydration at marathons isn't the problem that the sole source of fluid available to the runners was bottled water? If I have the wrong end of the stick let me know!

Thanks for the tips really looking forward to it now, those of you that do this sort of mileage regularly are nuts! I think once will be enough for me!

sungod

don't worry about over-hydration

as well as water, pay attention to food, if you've not done a long ride before this isn't the time to discover how it feels to run out of energy!

how you do it is personal, there's no 'right' way for everyone as tastes differ and there are metabolic variations as well

i eat well in the lead up, and stoke up a couple of hours before the start

make sure whatever you eat is what you can digest comfortably over the expected duration, start with solid fare, save gels etc. until later

you'll probably need to drink 0.5 - 1 litre/hr depending on heat/effort - the rate at which humans can absorb water varies a lot

even if it's really hot, you'll probably only really notice it on climbs, as when going at reasonable pace the air cools you very effectively

get into the habit of taking regular sips, it's better than chugging down a lot at once

drink a bit extra with/after food, you need water for digestion


i plan food on this basis...

typically a human can digest glucose at around 50-60g/hr and a glucose/fructose mix maybe 90g/hr, exceeding intake by too much risks indigestion/discomfort, but you'd need to be way over to really notice

white bread, white rice, potato all have high glycemic index, so fast+easy to digest early on, filled rolls, garmin rice cakes etc. are good eating, wrap in foil to protect from moisture, foil will easily scrunch to go in a pocket until you reach a litter drop

compared to pure glucose the carbs in these will be digested less efficiently, so you can increase amount/hour to compensate, say 80g/hour average of carbs from solid food

personally i avoid energy drink, i find it becomes really claggy in the mouth after a while, but others like them, so decide which way you prefer, a cold can of coke is lovely if you can get one

i like nuun tablets in water, especially the lemony ones, nice sharp taste, but no need for it in all the water, you'll get some salts from real food anyway

for gels, i find high5 isogel (citrus again) best, they go down easily


look at the route, plan to fuel ahead of long climbs, once you're climbing it can be harder to manage eating

have fun!

hypster

michaelede wrote:

Thanks for the tips, going to give the P20 a try(thank you Amazon prime!).
It has now occurred to me that there will be a number of places I can stop and sit in the river dart for 5 or 10 minutes if I get to hot.
I live a couple of miles from the start of the route and it is already toasty so reckon tomorrow will be a scorcher.

Re: over hydration, if I understand it right, calling it that is pretty confusing as the real problem is an electrolyte imbalance due to over consumption of fluid rather than to much fluid? Given that this can be very simply avoided by using an electrolyte tab in even an excessive volume of fluid then surely the only remaining risk is dehydration? I know from experience that I can sweat more than two litres in an hour when working hard (weighed myself before and after hard hot sessions of cycling and many years ago doing karate / grappling sessions) given that @ 88kg that is greater than 2% of bodyweight and you start seeing problems @ 2-3% of bodyweight lost, then surely just looking at the balance of risks tells me that I should be more worried about dehydration than washing out all of my electrolytes as a simple step removes that risk (adding an electrolyte tab) in the documented cases of over hydration at marathons isn't the problem that the sole source of fluid available to the runners was bottled water? If I have the wrong end of the stick let me know!

Thanks for the tips really looking forward to it now, those of you that do this sort of mileage regularly are nuts! I think once will be enough for me!

Read these two articles on the subject of electrolyte use if you are interested in learning more.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11 ... ctrolytes/
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11 ... es-part-2/

michaelede

Thanks Hypster, will read them. I like to think of myself as open minded.

Day went well and completed the course with few drama's, drank 8 litres of fluid over the course 8 1/2 hours (started out with 4 x 800ml bottles but lost one early on the second stint and lost an empty after doing my first bunny hop at speed in about 20 years to clear a drain cover ) and still felt like I could have drunk more, only needed 3 toilet stops (2 at the feed station and one really early on) over the 8 1/2 hours, was drinking the HIgh5 4:1 glucose/fructose/whey/electrolyte mix. Whilst it is stupidly sweet tasting I found I could still drink that when solid food was making me gag.

Thanks for the tip about the P20, totally unburnt with a single application by me at 6:30 in the morning, so impressed that we are now using it on my son before he goes to school.

One last thing, my knob is decidedly numb, kind of expected it to be okay today but that hasn't been the case. Do I need to worry, is there anything I can do to stop it happening again in the future?

ai_1

michaelede wrote:

...One last thing, my knob is decidedly numb, kind of expected it to be okay today but that hasn't been the case. Do I need to worry, is there anything I can do to stop it happening again in the future?

I'd be worried, and was when this happened to me last year after a similar length stint in the saddle. I'd been having some numbness issues but that was the first time it didn't disappear as soon as I got off the bike.
I'd already done a lot of tweaking with the existing saddle and could tell that the problem was the shape of the saddle putting pressure where I didn't want it. I spent a while trying different saddles and ended up with a Specialised Romin Evo Expert which so far has completely eliminated the problem for me on longer rides. It's not perfect when I adopt a very aggressive position but even then it's far batter than my previous saddle. I'm not saying that'll be the right solution for you. It's worth a try but the same solution doesn't necessarily suit everyone.

If you decide to try some alternative saddles I'd suggest looking for LBSs that will loan you a saddle. Some shops don't do it. Some do it for a fee and some charge you for the saddle and then reimburse you when you return it. Either way it's better than buying numerous saddles on a guess and then having to sell them on or settle for them even if they're not quite right as some people seem to do.

I'd strongly recommend trying the Adamo saddles such as the Breakaway and Attack. These seem to universally solve numbness issues but some people don't find them comfortable in other ways. I really quite liked the Breakway when i tried it last year and I nearly bought it. Then I tried the Romin Evo Expert and decided it was a better all-round saddle. The Breakaway was extremely comfortable when riding in a moderately or very aggressive position but I wasn't entirely happy with it when sitting up for an easy ride or when climbing. I suspect I might have gotten used to this with a bit more use.
I've recently got a second bike so need a new saddle. I've moved the Romin Evo Expert to the new bike and plan to put an Adamo Attack on the old one for use in Duathlons and Triathlons where I will be riding in an aggressive position the whole time.

Don't take chances by riding as you are if you're having numbness problems. It can't be worth the risk! :shock: