Falling apart for Froome

TMR

iainf72 wrote:

There was talk of a knee injury, but that's widely accepted to be an excuse for the fact his head fell off.

Nearly headless Brad?

rick_chasey

TMR wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

So Wiggins says he's got 2012 form this year.

Great.

Remember before the Giro last year? How did he describe his form then? That's right kids, as "better than 2012". And that worked out pretty well, right?

You aren't being fair - he has shown his form. I know the ToC is considered a chipper, but still a decent show to win it. As regards the Giro, didn't he had flu or something? I think there was a medical reason behind it all rather than he couldn't be bothered.

ToC is a chipper. The only way we'll actually see if he's in Tour winning form is in the TdS.

Given the 2 big favourites are in the Dauphine, he'll need to smash the TdS with two fingers in his nose to be considered a potential tour winner.

TMR

Rick Chasey wrote:

ToC is a chipper. The only way we'll actually see if he's in Tour winning form is in the TdS.

Given the 2 big favourites are in the Dauphine, he'll need to smash the TdS with two fingers in his nose to be considered a potential tour winner.

And if he does smash it, what view will you all* take then?

* - Anti-BW Brigade

rick_chasey

TMR wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

ToC is a chipper. The only way we'll actually see if he's in Tour winning form is in the TdS.

Given the 2 big favourites are in the Dauphine, he'll need to smash the TdS with two fingers in his nose to be considered a potential tour winner.

And if he does smash it, what view will you all* take then?

* - Anti-BW Brigade

I'll say he's in Tour winning form and Sky will have to do a bit of thinking.


But I sincerely doubt he'll smash it. I doubt he'll win it.

And I'm not particularly anti BW. I'm not a fan, but I can see the logic in everything that's gone on so far.

The problem with the discussion isn't people being 'anti BW', but it's myopia from the fanboys .

iainf72

TMR wrote:

And if he does smash it, what view will you all* take then?

* - Anti-BW Brigade

I'll take the same view I've held all along. And that is

- Can BW do a job for the team at the Tour? Yes
- Is he the only one who can do the job for the team? No
- Can Froome win the Tour without him there? Yes
- Would BW being there mess with the teams vibe? Yes

Kendrick Lamar wrote a tune about it actually : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8aaTu2kg0

BelgianBeerGeek

TMR wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

ToC is a chipper. The only way we'll actually see if he's in Tour winning form is in the TdS.

Given the 2 big favourites are in the Dauphine, he'll need to smash the TdS with two fingers in his nose to be considered a potential tour winner.

And if he does smash it, what view will you all* take then?

* - Anti-BW Brigade

Not sure I'd say I was anti - BW but: I really don't know what he is playing at. For someone who is on record saying he hates 3 - week GTs then he should have a new game plan. I'm with Rick, if he thrashes the others at the TdS, then I might listen, but til then this is just so much posturing.

TMR

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'll say he's in Tour winning form and Sky will have to do a bit of thinking.


But I sincerely doubt he'll smash it. I doubt he'll win it.

And I'm not particularly anti BW. I'm not a fan, but I can see the logic in everything that's gone on so far.

The problem with the discussion isn't people being 'anti BW', but it's myopia from the fanboys .

LOL - No myopia here

I just want to see him get a fair crack of the whip if he's good enough. Nothing more, nothing less.

tailwindhome

philwint

Also I suspect Froome sat up a bit on that last climb - why bury yourself when you know there is no chance of winning. So the Contador to Froome gap was probably bigger than their relative form would create.

Macaloon

Brad couldn't muster the gumption to be Plan A for himself yesterday. There's no way he's a credible Tour selection for any team, never mind Plan B for Froome. Must be great having a TdF champ not giving a steamer on the bus.

argyllflyer

TMR wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

This "manage the situation" thing puzzles me. That's what Brailsford is doing, isn't it? He's seen first hand what it's actually like, and I assume tried in some way to deal with it in the past. Sometimes you just need to remove one person from the equation and get on with it.

The problem seems to be that people think the 2014 vintage Wiggins is the same as the 2012 version.

Wiggins himself says he is. I'd believe him over you or anyone else. No offence intended.

Sir Wiggo rolled in 32 seconds down on Martin, in 14th place, in yesterday's prologue - so mentally (in a mood) or physically (not up to it) weak then?

tom3

I do wonder if froome has gone too deep in training. Something just didn't look right on stage 2,just didn't look properly in control like last year.

Hopefully nothing a bit of rest and tweaking can't fix.

In a way I'm glad froome and contador didn't go toe to toe in the dolphin properly. Saves it for the tour now.

Lanterne_Rogue

argyllflyer wrote:

TMR wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

This "manage the situation" thing puzzles me. That's what Brailsford is doing, isn't it? He's seen first hand what it's actually like, and I assume tried in some way to deal with it in the past. Sometimes you just need to remove one person from the equation and get on with it.

The problem seems to be that people think the 2014 vintage Wiggins is the same as the 2012 version.

Wiggins himself says he is. I'd believe him over you or anyone else. No offence intended.

Sir Wiggo rolled in 32 seconds down on Martin, in 14th place, in yesterday's prologue - so mentally (in a mood) or physically (not up to it) weak then?

Deliberately making himself look rubbish so that Froome relents and allows him to come and play in Yorkshire. It's no dumber than any other approach Wiggins may or may not be taking.

iainf72

Does Wiggins really want to go to the Tour?

BelgianBeerGeek

iainf72 wrote:

Does Wiggins really want to go to the Tour?

No. He is on record as saying he hates GTs. Why would he kill himself to do that? If the team/hospital said Froome could not ride, and BW was in at number one, he would crap himself.

adamfo

It does seem a hard fall. Stage winner Nieve summed it up

“It was very, very hard today. Chris still hadn’t recovered from his accident so I went for the stage win. He really suffered after the crash and yesterday he still hadn’t recovered, and today wasn’t better. I had an opportunity and went for it.”

Pross

I like Wiggins and Froome less so but there's some crap being spouted at the moment. I think Wiggins would offer something at the Tour if he CBA but from what I saw today he'd wouldn't have made an iota of difference. I think Froome knew he was struggling hence Sky getting into the break and ultimately winning the stage. That was quite a heavy fall Froome took the other day and most of us who have had racing crashes know how hard it can be just to ride a bike for a few days afterwards let alone face two MTFs in a top flight pro race.

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

I like Wiggins and Froome less so but there's some crap being spouted at the moment. I think Wiggins would offer something at the Tour if he CBA but from what I saw today he'd wouldn't have made an iota of difference. I think Froome knew he was struggling hence Sky getting into the break and ultimately winning the stage. That was quite a heavy fall Froome took the other day and most of us who have had racing crashes know how hard it can be just to ride a bike for a few days afterwards let alone face two MTFs in a top flight pro race.

Get on the bike I could hardly get on the toilet a couple of years ago after I fell hard on my side. Bruising can hurt. A lot. I honestly don't know how they do it to be honest.

joelsim

Get this.

Sky have 3 strong climbers in the break.

Froome and the other Sky riders have isolated Contador.

Couldn't have looked any better at that stage for Sky.

Oh dear.

ddraver

Yes we know that Joel the question we re trying to explain to our visitor is whether or not the massive crash Froome suffered may have had a tinsey tiny affect on his performance against world class riders in tip top form

joelsim

I guess we won't know until we reach the middle of the Tour, and whether his stamina is suspect or whether it was just the effects of the crash.

Pross

Joelsim wrote:

Get this.

Sky have 3 strong climbers in the break.

Froome and the other Sky riders have isolated Contador.

Couldn't have looked any better at that stage for Sky.

Oh dear.

Alternatively they were in the break to win the stage because Froome knew he wasn't going to make it?

Anyone would think Contador won the race the way it's being talked about.

Lanterne_Rogue

Joelsim wrote:

Get this.

Sky have 3 strong climbers in the break.

Froome and the other Sky riders have isolated Contador.

Couldn't have looked any better at that stage for Sky.

Oh dear.

I think that thinking is exactly what did for Contador - assuming that at some point they would be expected to work for Froome, and therefore things would come back together, he simply marked his man. By the point it became clear that Sky had decided that another stage win was likely to be a better outcome than shepherding Froome to a minor placing, it was too late to recover. So yeah, oh dear indeed. But not necessarily for Sky.

The_Boy

OnYourRight wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Get this.

Sky have 3 strong climbers in the break.

Froome and the other Sky riders have isolated Contador.

Couldn't have looked any better at that stage for Sky.

Oh dear.

Well, Sky won the stage. Hardly the end of the world.

What will niggle Froome (and Sky) is that while he rode very strongly early on, he only beat Contador by eight seconds in the time trial, and he couldn’t quite drop him on stage 2 (albeit clearly being slightly stronger).

What’s more, Froome was a lot weaker today than he was yesterday, despite having had an extra day to recover from the crash.

Theoretically he ‘knows’ he would have done better if he hadn’t crashed, but that ‘knowledge’ won’t give him the same confidence and ease of being that Contador’s proven performance will give him.

What with the Wiggins saga, Porte’s strangeness, the TUE noise in the press, and Froome’s crash and subsequent collapse in the Dauphiné, Sky’s run-up to the Tour is definitely a bit fraught this year.

To be fair, that's close to a second/km. Pretty good going in what was only marginally longer a prologue.

Anonymous

This needs spoliers on it. Ruined the weekends racing for me today.

curium

I'm not anti-Brad but you'd have to be a muppet to think that he could stay with, let alone attack, the current form of Contador!

If Froome isn't good enough to win the TDF I'd put money on him still finishing ahead of BW and this is why BW is a non-starter for the tour because in his heart of heart DB knows that if Froome isn't good enough, BW will not be able to save them. I'd put Uran in ahead of BW if he was still at Sky.

Brad's TDF win was a one-off, never to be repeated. This doesn't make him a poor rider but he is right on the edge of the envelope of performance for GT riders and the parcour and opponents need to be right for him to emerge as the winner.

argyllflyer

I don't get the criticism of Sky for yesterday. They put three up the road in case Froome collapsed after his own attack from the peloton (as he did) and in doing so, not only won the stage but contributed enough to the break to stop Contador taking anything further from the race.

top_bhoy

sjmclean wrote:

This needs spoliers on it. Ruined the weekends racing for me today.

There would be a genuine complaint if it was posted in 'Beginner' without warnings but 'Pro Race''. Seriously???? Why access the forum titles 'Pro Race' in the first instance if not knowing the outcome of the most important pre-TdF race was that important? I don't understand why some feel the need to blame others for this type of situation; I guess it's easier to blame others than take responsibility for their own actions.

above_the_cows

argyllflyer wrote:

I don't get the criticism of Sky for yesterday. They put three up the road in case Froome collapsed after his own attack from the peloton (as he did) and in doing so, not only won the stage but contributed enough to the break to stop Contador taking anything further from the race.

Now if only they could pull something like that off in the Classics.

rick_chasey

Top_Bhoy wrote:

sjmclean wrote:

This needs spoliers on it. Ruined the weekends racing for me today.

There would be a genuine complaint if it was posted in 'Beginner' without warnings but 'Pro Race''. Seriously???? Why access the forum titles 'Pro Race' in the first instance if not knowing the outcome of the most important pre-TdF race was that important? I don't understand why some feel the need to blame others for this type of situation; I guess it's easier to blame others than take responsibility for their own actions.

Same happened for me. Go on the forum you run the risk, ultimately.