Falling apart for Froome

ginsterdrz

And that Mr Froome (and Brailsford) is exactly why you need Sir Mod in the team for the TdF.

Experience and racing nouse was sadly lacking at the Dau.

hammerite

One bad day and everything is falling apart.

above_the_cows

Because Bradley has such magical super powers that he can literally stop you falling off your bike! Fact.

RichN95.

IainF72, could you please follow up on the threat you made on twitter?

iainf72

Certainly.

For those who haven't seen it

https://twitter.com/iain_forfar/status/ ... 1603130368

iainf72

I don't know how anyone in their right mind would think Sky showed weakness in the Dolphin.

And I'm not a fan but they looked pretty solid to me. Win 37% of the stages and 25% of the jersey on offer.

inseine

iainf72 wrote:

I don't know how anyone in their right mind would think Sky showed weakness in the Dolphin.

And I'm not a fan but they looked pretty solid to me. Win 37% of the stages and 25% of the jersey on offer.

Quite strong this year, super strong last year? on the other hand Contador has really stepped up.

above_the_cows

inseine wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I don't know how anyone in their right mind would think Sky showed weakness in the Dolphin.

And I'm not a fan but they looked pretty solid to me. Win 37% of the stages and 25% of the jersey on offer.

Quite strong this year, super strong last year? on the other hand Contador has really stepped up.

And then weak at the Tour...

inseine

So basically we're non the wiser

above_the_cows

Nope. Great isn't it. We get to go into the Tour without a clue as to how things are going to shape up.

oldwelshman

I will ay it, they do need him in the squad.
It is not a team sport like football, Sky are not interested in the "team" award, only yellow.
Wiggo is on a contract to ride for Sky sme as Froome and they should do as they are told end of.
DB needs to grow some balls and manage them, not keep them apart as it makes it easier. It is easy decision to keep them apart, management skills needed to get them to man up and ride together.
Anyhing can happen in the race (unlike a footie match) so it makes sense to have your strongest team and also have options.
I was not impressed by Froomes tactics on stage 2, maybe he will learn fom this race, trouble is he believes all hype about him and rides like he is a 1st cat in a 4th cat field. Apart from today
Would be interesting to hear his views on how much the fall affected him, I suspect not as much as his performance today shows, but one thing is certain, it will not be as easy as he and Bertie thought in tour. I would still like some of the younger riders to come through and challenge, some showed decent form this week.

argyllflyer

oldwelshman wrote:

I will ay it, they do need him in the squad.
It is not a team sport like football, Sky are not interested in the "team" award, only yellow.
Wiggo is on a contract to ride for Sky sme as Froome and they should do as they are told end of.
DB needs to grow some balls and manage them, not keep them apart as it makes it easier. It is easy decision to keep them apart, management skills needed to get them to man up and ride together.
Anyhing can happen in the race (unlike a footie match) so it makes sense to have your strongest team and also have options.
I was not impressed by Froomes tactics on stage 2, maybe he will learn fom this race, trouble is he believes all hype about him and rides like he is a 1st cat in a 4th cat field. Apart from today
Would be interesting to hear his views on how much the fall affected him, I suspect not as much as his performance today shows, but one thing is certain, it will not be as easy as he and Bertie thought in tour. I would still like some of the younger riders to come through and challenge, some showed decent form this week.

The time for Brailsford to do that was perhaps over a year ago. With less than 3 weeks 'til Yorkshire, it's not going to be successful starting now.

But looking at Wiggins' TT yesterday, he's not got much form left from California unless he soft-pedalled it.

RichN95.

It wouldn't have mattered if Froome had Merckx, Hinault and Coppi riding for him and Guimard and Post as his DSs. He still would have lost plenty of time. The failings were with his legs, not his team (who I seem to remember actually won the stage).

blazing_saddles

Froome not so much in need of another puller today, as a pusher.

type:epyt

Based solely on what i've read in this thread, we need the following:

Froome to be unable to get to the start line in Yorkshire.

Wiggins to somehow win in Switzerland.

Wiggins to go to the TdF as the team leader.

Wiggins to take a hiding due to the decent field.

Life to return to normal.

frenchfighter

Don't worry about Froome. He is still the second best climber in the World and the best TT rider. Days like this happen to the best of them. I dislike Froome and how he suddenly came good but to write him off now is a big mistake. If the odds have dropped as a result of this I would scoop them. Wiggins would get punished if he rode the Tour - thinking how he would react in that stage where Froome was solo against the might of Saxo and Movistar is quite funny. One thing you have to give to Froome is that he knows how to suffer - I really think they boy knows how to reach deep into his pain cave when required. He is no Contador but he is infinitely more fun to watch then Wiggins.

Rob85_

OnYourRight wrote:

Notwithstanding the fact Froome was very strong until he crashed, can you cite noteworthy examples of Wiggins’ racing nous?

I believe Froome would have won dauphine today if he hadn't crashed on friday.

That said, the most recent example of Wiggins' racing nous, I can remember is where Wiggins engineered a strong break in the crosswinds on one of the stages at the Tour of California this year with Cavendish & Boonen + others (can't remember which stage 2 or 3 I think).

Can't see how he wouldn't be an asset to Froome especially given the form he had in California. Surely Brailsford just needs to bash there heads together and tell them to grow up and that they are both contracted to the same team and will do as he says.

I would think the sponsors would want to see both Froome and Wiggins on the start in Yorkshire.

Still will wait to see what happens in Switzerland... Contador is looking very strong, its all looking pretty exciting!

iainf72

This "manage the situation" thing puzzles me. That's what Brailsford is doing, isn't it? He's seen first hand what it's actually like, and I assume tried in some way to deal with it in the past. Sometimes you just need to remove one person from the equation and get on with it.

The problem seems to be that people think the 2014 vintage Wiggins is the same as the 2012 version.

TMR

Ginsterdrz wrote:

And that Mr Froome (and Brailsford) is exactly why you need Sir Mod in the team for the TdF.

Experience and racing nouse was sadly lacking at the Dau.

100% correct Sir! The sooner all of the nay sayers accept they are wrong and realign their views, the better this forum will be! :P

above_the_cows

frenchfighter wrote:

Don't worry about Froome. He is still the second best climber in the World and the best TT rider. Days like this happen to the best of them. I dislike Froome and how he suddenly came good but to write him off now is a big mistake. If the odds have dropped as a result of this I would scoop them. Wiggins would get punished if he rode the Tour - thinking how he would react in that stage where Froome was solo against the might of Saxo and Movistar is quite funny. One thing you have to give to Froome is that he knows how to suffer - I really think they boy knows how to reach deep into his pain cave when required. He is no Contador but he is infinitely more fun to watch then Wiggins.

Good points Frenchie.

TMR

iainf72 wrote:

This "manage the situation" thing puzzles me. That's what Brailsford is doing, isn't it? He's seen first hand what it's actually like, and I assume tried in some way to deal with it in the past. Sometimes you just need to remove one person from the equation and get on with it.

The problem seems to be that people think the 2014 vintage Wiggins is the same as the 2012 version.

Wiggins himself says he is. I'd believe him over you or anyone else. No offence intended.

TMR

iainf72 wrote:

Certainly.

For those who haven't seen it

https://twitter.com/iain_forfar/status/ ... 1603130368

LMAO! Forum Warrior!

SKY needs BW!

Meet me at 1 Canada Place, Canary Wharf at 1030 tomorrow. You can have the first one - make it good.

frenchfighter

TMR wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

This "manage the situation" thing puzzles me. That's what Brailsford is doing, isn't it? He's seen first hand what it's actually like, and I assume tried in some way to deal with it in the past. Sometimes you just need to remove one person from the equation and get on with it.

The problem seems to be that people think the 2014 vintage Wiggins is the same as the 2012 version.

Wiggins himself says he is. I'd believe him over you or anyone else. No offence intended.

Well I would agree here. Not sure how Iain can be so sure Wiggins isn't in ridiculously good form.

TMR

frenchfighter wrote:

Don't worry about Froome. He is still the second best climber in the World and the best TT rider. Days like this happen to the best of them. I dislike Froome and how he suddenly came good but to write him off now is a big mistake. If the odds have dropped as a result of this I would scoop them. Wiggins would get punished if he rode the Tour - thinking how he would react in that stage where Froome was solo against the might of Saxo and Movistar is quite funny. One thing you have to give to Froome is that he knows how to suffer - I really think they boy knows how to reach deep into his pain cave when required. He is no Contador but he is infinitely more fun to watch then Wiggins.

All Pro riders know how to suffer Frenchie. Froome doesn't have a 'suitcase of courage' monopoly.

TMR

frenchfighter wrote:

TMR wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

This "manage the situation" thing puzzles me. That's what Brailsford is doing, isn't it? He's seen first hand what it's actually like, and I assume tried in some way to deal with it in the past. Sometimes you just need to remove one person from the equation and get on with it.

The problem seems to be that people think the 2014 vintage Wiggins is the same as the 2012 version.

Wiggins himself says he is. I'd believe him over you or anyone else. No offence intended.

Well I would agree here. Not sure how Iain can be so sure Wiggins isn't in ridiculously good form.

And I am really interested to see how BW reacts to the Dauphine outcome in the TdS now. I think he has an opportunity. He needs to get off his arse and show himself though.

iainf72

So Wiggins says he's got 2012 form this year.

Great.

Remember before the Giro last year? How did he describe his form then? That's right kids, as "better than 2012". And that worked out pretty well, right?

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

So Wiggins says he's got 2012 form this year.

Great.

Remember before the Giro last year? How did he describe his form then? That's right kids, as "better than 2012". And that worked out pretty well, right?

Well it did rain.

frenchfighter

TMR wrote:

All Pro riders know how to suffer Frenchie. Froome doesn't have a 'suitcase of courage' monopoly.

All riders are equal but some are more equal than others

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

So Wiggins says he's got 2012 form this year.

Great.

Remember before the Giro last year? How did he describe his form then? That's right kids, as "better than 2012". And that worked out pretty well, right?

Well it did rain.

Sure did.

It's true, I can't know what his form is like. I suspect it's probably decent. California was decent but the field wasn't stellar.

TMR

iainf72 wrote:

So Wiggins says he's got 2012 form this year.

Great.

Remember before the Giro last year? How did he describe his form then? That's right kids, as "better than 2012". And that worked out pretty well, right?

You aren't being fair - he has shown his form. I know the ToC is considered a chipper, but still a decent show to win it. As regards the Giro, didn't he had flu or something? I think there was a medical reason behind it all rather than he couldn't be bothered.

iainf72

TMR wrote:

You aren't being fair - he has shown his form. I know the ToC is considered a chipper, but still a decent show to win it. As regards the Giro, didn't he had flu or something? I think there was a medical reason behind it all rather than he couldn't be bothered.

There was talk of a knee injury, but that's widely accepted to be an excuse for the fact his head fell off.