sportive etiquette after a crash

skeff10
skeff10 Posts: 93
edited June 2014 in Road general
A fella caused a crash and brought three others down. We were all ok but my wheel was trashed and my event over with a new front wheel required. He agreed to make a contribution as a goodwill gesture but now has renagued. I cant force him too but is it bad form on his part? Or am I being unrealistic about a gentleman, s agreement?......
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Comments

  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    If he agreed and then reneged, then yes, it's bad form obviously. Nothing you can do though...
  • Druidor
    Druidor Posts: 230
    I would think technically it would be the same as if it were any road accident,

    he would be responsible for the accident and failing to supply details in relation to insurance etc to allow a claim for damages would be a criminal act.

    small claims court
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  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    Druidor wrote:
    I would think technically it would be the same as if it were any road accident,

    he would be responsible for the accident and failing to supply details in relation to insurance etc to allow a claim for damages would be a criminal act.

    small claims court
    I doubt that would wash in a cycling event for the same reason most standard bike insurance doesn't cover racing.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Druidor wrote:
    he would be responsible for the accident and failing to supply details in relation to insurance etc to allow a claim for damages would be a criminal act.

    These are bicycles - not cars. As for insurance - what..??
  • Father Faff
    Father Faff Posts: 1,176
    It depends what you mean by "cause a crash". If he crashed and you ran into him then you were riding too close! If he ran into you then you might have a claim but you would need some witnesses to be successful.
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  • butcher of bakersfield
    butcher of bakersfield Posts: 1,233
    It depends what you mean by "cause a crash". If he crashed and you ran into him then you were riding too close!

    I think I'd tend to agree with this. I'm guessing most crashes at such events involving multiple people are a product of said people being bunched together. If you ride tightly in a group, then to some degree you need to accept that people make mistakes, accidents happen, and you're riding right in the firing line. You pay to play.

    If you're just plodding along on your own however, minding your own business, and someone comes out of nowhere and takes you out....that would be a bit different.
  • curto80
    curto80 Posts: 314
    I dunno, I think unless it was someone being totally reckless it's just one of those things and a risk of doing sportives. You were unlucky but it can happen. I'd just forget about it and move on. The guys probably over-promised in the heat of the moment.
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  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    'Etiquette' would be , dont ride a sportive like it's a race. it's not... riding close to people who you dont have foggiest of their bike handling skills is full of risks and sometimes the inevitable happens.
    As you havent described the circumstances I am of the opinion.. 6 of one, half dozen of other.. suck it up
  • DiscoBoy
    DiscoBoy Posts: 905
    If he doesn't pay willingly, small claims court is your only hope.
    Red bikes are the fastest.
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    If he doesn't pay willingly, small claims court is your only hope.

    Not your only hope surely?

    I know what Captain Lip would have done :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • Brakeless
    Brakeless Posts: 865
    How did he cause the crash?
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    JGSI wrote:
    'Etiquette' would be , dont ride a sportive like it's a race. it's not... riding close to people who you dont have foggiest of their bike handling skills is full of risks and sometimes the inevitable happens.
    As you havent described the circumstances I am of the opinion.. 6 of one, half dozen of other.. suck it up

    This.

    I hate the [stereotypical] American style litigious attitude that seems to be taking hold here. Mistakes happen, and if you aren't aware of the fact that in low level amateur cycling events (competitive and non) there are very likely to be a few idiots, you're a bit naive. That's not to say that every time it should be a matter of shaking hands and leaving it at that, but if you go to a well attended cycling event you should know what you're letting yourself in for and choose your equipment accordingly.
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  • Tiesetrotter
    Tiesetrotter Posts: 432
    Had a similar occurrence at the King of the Downs. The guy who wiped us all out rode off!
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    I would very much like to know the circumstances of the crash...
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  • Smithster
    Smithster Posts: 117
    I agree with the comments that it's not a race, it's a Sportive. Fine if you want to ride it like a race. But be prepared that at some point, if you are bunch riding, someone may fall off, and end up bring people down with them.

    Of course should some numpty just hurtle out of nowhere, then etiquette should dictate that as gesture of goodwill they may be forthcoming with some pennys.

    I'd probably chalk it up to shit happens, and move on.
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    If he doesn't pay willingly, small claims court is your only hope.

    Not correct, Obi Wan is our only hope.
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    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Name and shame...
    If that fails then an internet witch hunt

    Sounds harsh but its the way things are done these days
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    Tiesetrotter wrote:
    Had a similar occurrence at the King of the Downs. The guy who wiped us all out rode off!

    Did he ride away chuckling?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    JGSI wrote:
    'Etiquette' would be , dont ride a sportive like it's a race. it's not... riding close to people who you dont have foggiest of their bike handling skills is full of risks and sometimes the inevitable happens.
    You can mitigate that risk by being careful who you ride with - you can normally tell the club riders from non-club and the amateurs from pro-wannabies ...
    It's still a risk no matter what - just look at the Pros that can't stop falling over ...
  • itsnotarace
    itsnotarace Posts: 518
    Public liability insurance should cover this, if the rider that caused the accident has home insurance it will likely be included. It is also included if they are a member of CTC or British Cycling or similar

    Good luck
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Grill wrote:
    I would very much like to know the circumstances of the crash...

    +1. Without this info, there is no point to the thread.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Father Faff
    Father Faff Posts: 1,176
    If a sportive is not a race why is it timed then? OK it isn't technically an official race but you'd be a fool to think a lot of people aren't racing to beat a time. The dangers of sportives are that some people are racing, some aren't, some are experienced riders and some are complete novices. The most dangerous are inexperienced riders going fast!
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  • skeff10
    skeff10 Posts: 93
    edited June 2014
    We were honestly just riding along an innocuous flat road about 100 kms in. He lost concentration and took two others down. My point is that we helped him out, made sure he was ok. He was very apologetic and we agreed a goodwill gesture as my event was over and the wheel wrecked. Gentlemans agreement and all that. He has now reneged on that. Its not about legalities. We all know the risks when riding in mass events, but its poor form to "not keep your word". Naive I know, but I expected him to respect a fellow cyclist
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Suck it up and move on would be my advice. An excuse for a wheel upgrade.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Father Faff wrote:
    If a sportive is not a race why is it timed then?

    That's a good question - and one that BC is currently wrestling with, I think. Currently, races (real races, that is) require police approval and BC sanction. On the other hand, literally anyone can organise a sportive and time it, without BC approval or police notification. If sportives actually required police and BC approval, then I suspect that at least 50% of them would disappear overnight.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Father Faff wrote:
    If a sportive is not a race why is it timed then?

    There is more to the definition of a race than a stopwatch.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    itsnotarace wrote:
    Public liability insurance should cover this, if the rider that caused the accident has home insurance it will likely be included. It is also included if they are a member of CTC or British Cycling or similar

    Good luck

    It won't as home insurance includes Property Owners Liability and that only works if the accident was on the insureds property and negligence can be proven.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Imposter wrote:
    Father Faff wrote:
    If a sportive is not a race why is it timed then?

    That's a good question - and one that BC is currently wrestling with, I think. Currently, races (real races, that is) require police approval and BC sanction. On the other hand, literally anyone can organise a sportive and time it, without BC approval or police notification. If sportives actually required police and BC approval, then I suspect that at least 50% of them would disappear overnight.

    I can't see that happening... going down into fine detail .. some summer club runs become 'sportives' to add a few pennies into club pot.. notwithstanding my favourite winter sport of club reliabilities.. now Father Faff.. get yourself into a fast group there and you might get to know when a race is not a race .. but sure becomes one ;-)
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,386
    two options for a race...

    i) you overtake them, they (try and) take you back, repeat until one of you cracks

    ii) you get bc points

    not a race...

    i) idiots that sprint past you coughing up a lung then immediately slow right down so that you have to dodge them as you casually cruise back past with no change of pace

    ii) they casually cruise past you and you can't return the favour
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Father Faff
    Father Faff Posts: 1,176
    I reckon a "race" is just when it gets mad, fast and furious and I've come across plenty of those on club rides and some sportives can get a bit lairy if you get in a good fast group.
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