Climbing wheels

smoggysteve

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Shame Lampre hasn't won a race that matters for ages... probably since they started using the Zeros?

What, you mean like two hilly stages of the Giro this year?

jon33

thecycleclinic wrote:

The only problem with facotry is if you do damage a rim say good bye to the wheels as a replacement is prohibitively expensive. A Pacenti rim is alot cheaper and that rim is fairly pricey for a rim. Also spokes for DA wheels are not cheap should you have a squirrel run through the wheel and take out a spoke or three.

There may be many larger rider that run C24's/fulcrum with no issues equally there will be 85kg riders that have no end of problems (although admitly Shimano and Fulcrum wheels are generally reliable). Weight is a factor as well as how you ride.

Buy the factory option if you just want wheels that are essentially throw away once the rim wears or spokes fatigue. Buy handbuilt if you want wheels that are repairable and can be re rimmed on the same hub time and time again. DA hubs will do daft miles not that C24 owners ever get close to that.

Also the Pacenti SL23 rim is wider at 24mm than the fulcrum or DA C24 rim. a wider rim gives a wider tyre profile. why would you not want that?

Shimano and fulcrum wheel spokes are not stronger than the Sapim or DT Swiss that many wheel builders use. The DA wheels for example use a 2.0/1.5/2.0 bladed spoke front and NDS rear, 2.0/1.8/2.0mm bladed DS rear. These are not thick spokes and the 2.0mm butted end is the same as many after market spokes. So either wheel builders over build wheels (quite possible but no bad thing either) or Shimano et al under build them. You decide.

Thanks for that post, very informative.

So handbuilt have the advantage of being able to be repaired over the factory wheels and they are of similar spec weight, stiffnes, comfort wise.

Last question (hopefully) - What makes a wider tyre profile better than a thinner tyre profile?

Thanks!

thegreatdivide

SmoggySteve wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Shame Lampre hasn't won a race that matters for ages... probably since they started using the Zeros?

What, you mean like two hilly stages of the Giro this year?

Indeed - they've had a quality year so far!

drlodge

I've put my alu clincher wheels back on and am really enjoying them...Record 32H hubs, Excellight rims, race (rear)/laser (front) spokes and repaired Vittoria Open Paves. The tyre makes a hell of a difference IMHO...a butter soft ride with 360tpi carcass, very comfy yet fast. Don't have any problems going up hills or braking downhill. I might actually prefer these wheels for long rides over my 50mm carbon tubs.

Rim weight is about 425g? ultra thin 50g inner tubes and 360tpi tyres.

ugo.santalucia

thegreatdivide wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Shame Lampre hasn't won a race that matters for ages... probably since they started using the Zeros?

What, you mean like two hilly stages of the Giro this year?

Indeed - they've had a quality year so far!

Easily pleased... an Italian team is bound to bag something at the Giro... the problem is Lampre among the top teams is always the one with fewer victories at the end of the season... I blame the Zeros of course...

smoggysteve

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Shame Lampre hasn't won a race that matters for ages... probably since they started using the Zeros?

What, you mean like two hilly stages of the Giro this year?

Indeed - they've had a quality year so far!

Easily pleased... an Italian team is bound to bag something at the Giro... the problem is Lampre among the top teams is always the one with fewer victories at the end of the season... I blame the Zeros of course...

Would they not be more likely to win the flatter stages than steep climbs if said wheels were crap at climbing especially in a situation where team tactics are less influential?

ugo.santalucia

SmoggySteve wrote:

Would they not be more likely to win the flatter stages than steep climbs if said wheels were crap at climbing especially in a situation where team tactics are less influential?

Oh man, when I put a face like this , it means it's a tongue in cheek comment not to be taken seriously

smoggysteve

ugo.santalucia wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Would they not be more likely to win the flatter stages than steep climbs if said wheels were crap at climbing especially in a situation where team tactics are less influential?

Oh man, when I put a face like this , it means it's a tongue in cheek comment not to be taken seriously

I know, I just like winding you up

cycleclinic

360tpi really. It says 320TPI on mine drlodge. Have you tried latex tubes yet it might be worth it.

What make wider rims better than narrower - you have to ask?

Wider rims make a tyre take a wider profile. For example a customers 25mm Conti GP4000s on a Mavic cosmic measured up a 25.3mm but on a Pacenti SL23 rim the same tyre measured up at 27.1mm that quite a difference. Can't wait to try the 28 tyres on these rims and ride them.
A 23mm GP4000s on my 25mm wide carbon rimmed wheels measure up at 26mm and the ride is tubular like and grip in the corners is far better than when I had these tyres on 19mm wide rims.
Another example is 27mm Vittoria Pave I love these tyres as much as any man can love a tyre... On a Kinlin rim 19mm wide they measure up at 25mm - I felt cheated but on Archetype 23mm wide rims they are 27mm wide.

Wider tyres are more comfortable and a if a tyre is wider because it is on a wider rim lateral grip - i,e corning grip is improved. worth it buy itself in my book. At some point the major wheel makers will catch up (I think some are) but there wheels would increase in weight a bit which makes it harder selling them. Some of course think the wider rim craze is just that and it is another marketing ploy to sell more product.

drlodge

thecycleclinic wrote:

360tpi really. It says 320TPI on mine drlodge. Have you tried latex tubes yet it might be worth it.

I stand corrected, it is 320tpi...still a lot be better than those german 120tpi hosepipes.

cycleclinic

I quick like the "hose pipes" and I have both the GP4000s and Open Pave's. 23mm GP4000s on 25mm carbon wheels give an equally good ride to 27mm Open Paves. So hose pipes they are not also a hose pipe is more like a tufo tubular.

79543dean

Having owned Mavic Ksyrium SL, Dura Ace C24 and Fulcrum Racing Zero (Dark Label). The Racing Zero are MILES better than the previous two. They roll and climb MUCH better. To be honest, i'm not that impressed with C24's or Ksyrium SL as I sold both pairs.

cycleclinic

What do mean by roll better? It is unfortunatley a term very dependent on the tyres used on the wheels, road surface e.t.c so it is difficult to know what it actually means. Maybe you could elaborate?

Masey1980

I have just recently taken delivery of Pacenti SL23's laced to DA9000 hubs with CX-rays, firstly thanks Malcom @thecycleclinic the wheels look and feel great, I have only covered a couple of hundred miles on them so far; so can by no means give a conclusive review.
These wheels replaced my DA c24's which had worn rims, at the moment I'm using my existing Vittoria Rubino Pro 3's, 25c for a direct comparison until the Shwalbe one's come back into stock and I convert to tubeless.
Now I'm not going to start on how well these wheels climb or how stiff they are as it's just to early on and I haven't done enough climbing on them. One thing which I have definately noticed is how often I have slowed for a corner, tipped it in and then thought I could have taken that much faster, the stability is noticeable immediately.
I was one of "those people" looking for a lightweight climbing wheelset, what I've ended up with is a fairly light 1550g ish wheelset which will not only go up as well as almost anything else, but will also descend faster than most.

jon33

Masey1980 wrote:

I have just recently taken delivery of Pacenti SL23's laced to DA9000 hubs with CX-rays, firstly thanks Malcom @thecycleclinic the wheels look and feel great, I have only covered a couple of hundred miles on them so far; so can by no means give a conclusive review.
These wheels replaced my DA c24's which had worn rims, at the moment I'm using my existing Vittoria Rubino Pro 3's, 25c for a direct comparison until the Shwalbe one's come back into stock and I convert to tubeless.
Now I'm not going to start on how well these wheels climb or how stiff they are as it's just to early on and I haven't done enough climbing on them. One thing which I have definitely noticed is how often I have slowed for a corner, tipped it in and then thought I could have taken that much faster, the stability is noticeable immediately.
I was one of "those people" looking for a lightweight climbing wheelset, what I've ended up with is a fairly light 1550g ish wheelset which will not only go up as well as almost anything else, but will also descend faster than most.

So would you rate them as better than the DA c24s (as an initial thought)?

speshsteve

just to throw another option in....whats the point in spending the extra on the DA version over the rs81's? When I looked the deal on the RS81's just seemed like a no brainer....200 quid extra for the DA hub and about 50g weight saving.

Masey1980

jon33 wrote:

Masey1980 wrote:

I have just recently taken delivery of Pacenti SL23's laced to DA9000 hubs with CX-rays, firstly thanks Malcom @thecycleclinic the wheels look and feel great, I have only covered a couple of hundred miles on them so far; so can by no means give a conclusive review.
These wheels replaced my DA c24's which had worn rims, at the moment I'm using my existing Vittoria Rubino Pro 3's, 25c for a direct comparison until the Shwalbe one's come back into stock and I convert to tubeless.
Now I'm not going to start on how well these wheels climb or how stiff they are as it's just to early on and I haven't done enough climbing on them. One thing which I have definitely noticed is how often I have slowed for a corner, tipped it in and then thought I could have taken that much faster, the stability is noticeable immediately.
I was one of "those people" looking for a lightweight climbing wheelset, what I've ended up with is a fairly light 1550g ish wheelset which will not only go up as well as almost anything else, but will also descend faster than most.

So would you rate them as better than the DA c24s (as an initial thought)?

As stated, very early days. The DA C24's are lighter and I would say that the initial acceleration of them seems slightly more responsive, but I genuinely believe that point to point the Pacenti build will be noticeably faster, as an all round wheelset I think they'd be tough to beat,
It's worth remembering that the c24's are effectively scrap due to the cost of replacing the rim's. My build worked out more expensive than DA C24's, but cost could have been saved on spokes, with no real effect on performance.

jon33

If you don't mind - how much do you weigh and what spoke count did you go for?

Masey1980

jon33 wrote:

If you don't mind - how much do you weigh and what spoke count did you go for?

I weigh 74kgs, I went for 24/28 spoke count due to the slightly limited options with the DA hubs, if available I would have gone for 20/24. I would suggest that the 24/28 spoke count would also be ok for riders that are a fair bit heavier. I would strongly recommend contacting Malcom at thecycleclinic as he really helped me decide on a build based on my requirements and I haven't been disappointed.

jon33

How long did delivery take from ordering these wheels?

Masey1980

There was an issue with availability of CX-Ray spokes, so it was around 5-6 weeks. I think it would have been 4-5 weeks otherwise, your best bet is to check what the current build queue is with Malcom. There are of course a whole host of other wheel builders out there, of which I have not had any experience.

Father Faff

I've put some Campag Eurus on my bike at £550 for clinchers and they seem pretty damn good to me. Setting PRs on every climb (and they are steep here in the Dales) but maybe I'm just getting fitter!

dombo6

Easton EA90 SLX are very good. Revamped slightly for this year, and weight around 1400g. I got mine in 2008 and they have done an Etape, (the "easy" one in 08) six Dragons and countless other hilly miles along the pot-holed tracks that pass for paved roads in Surrey. They are still as true as when I first got them.

cycleclinic

Easton may be undergoing a distributor change again. As such Zyro have no Easton spares and they could not say when this would change. A customers wheel just became scrap because we can't get the proprietry bearings. so currently I would not recomend buying easton products as warranty claims will take as long as it takes to resolve the distribution issue plus a bit more and if you need spares forget it for the time being.

robbo2011

hmm. I had freehub problems, popped a spoke and both front and rear bearings were getting rough on my EA90s, all within 5000km of dry riding.

They are now sitting in the basement doing nothing. Personally, I wouldn't touch Easton wheels with a barge pole.

smoggysteve

robbo2011 wrote:

hmm. I had freehub problems, popped a spoke and both front and rear bearings were getting rough on my EA90s, all within 5000km of dry riding.

They are now sitting in the basement doing nothing. Personally, I wouldn't touch Easton wheels with a barge pole.

If you don't want them, post them over to Germany. I'll give them a try.

robbo2011

Do you know how much that would cost from Switzerland? It would almost be cheaper to just buy you a new set

smoggysteve

robbo2011 wrote:

Do you know how much that would cost from Switzerland? It would almost be cheaper to just buy you a new set

It's only next door. Push em over the border.

jon33

Hi all

Rather than starting another wheel thread thought I'd just ask here, realistically what would the difference performance wise be between a 24/28 spoke wheelset and a 28/32 wheelset? Obviosuly the later will be slightly heavier but other than that? (85kg rider)

pippi_langsamer-2

I only use them for the local short, sharp shockers but my Mavic SRs feel lovely going uphill.

They're about as aerodynamic as a hippo going downhill (and make the kind of noise my bike rack makes on top of my car at 80mph), but uphill..... Mmmm