Wednesday's Black Cab Über-Protest

greg66_tri_v2.0

I'm with mroli on this. I find black cabbies generally give me room and are aware of what's going on around them.

Addison Lee drivers are generally unaware of what's going on around them, don't care about the fact that they are unaware, and are by and large incompetent.

Speaking personally, the only group of drivers that I've come across that contains properly malicious elements is red bus drivers. Some real shit bags in there.

DonDaddyD

I'm with Greg and mroli on this one.

We can all recite encounters we've had with the aforementioned, but really it is a sliding scale:

- Black cab
- Coaches
- Bus drivers
- Mini-cab
-
-
-
-
- Addison Lee

rubertoe

where do other cyclists appear on that list.

Anonymous

Just had an email (I use uber as the code CAPITALLIVING gives you £50 free credit for your 1st journey - ideal for an airport run) and theyre opening the app to minicab drivers.

I also spoke to an uber driver - one said he quit as the margins were so low (20% fee to uber) but came back as he can't deny the amount of work.

The other thing is that they are also incredibly nice, as when your cab is booked, it shows up in the app and the driver is shown in a picture, including rating by his previous passengers. I tried to tip one quite generously due to having to wait for ages while we faffed and he flat out refused!

Koncordski

The sheer torrent of abuse I got from Black Cabs that were held up when there was the large space4cycling protest last year (when 6 riders were killed in a few weeks) was enough to decide it for me. Being told to F**k off and die because I was protesting about road safety and inconveniencing his day was a highlight. I bet now they're protesting they'll view it as their legitimate right to do so. Self interest is at the heart of this and nothing more.

monkimark

mroli wrote:

Black cab drivers have to do the knowledge. This is an extensive training course for driving on London's streets and most cabbies prepare for it on 2 wheels. Black cabs also have a rigorous mechanical standard to reach. There is also a test to pass.

Mini-cab drivers have a far less rigorous licensing/testing requirement. As long as you've held a driving licence for 3 years (UK/EU), you are "qualified" to drive in London...

I prefer black cabs to mini cabs - I've been hit by a black cab, but I was pretty reassured that I had the guy's licence no and that he would be insured (he was).

As far as I can ascertain, ALL of the additional training/testing that black cabs undergo is topographical - there's no mention of any kind of test that improves the standard of driving. I can't see anything about additional mechanical test standards either but I haven't searched particularly hard for it.
Both seem to need a CRB check and a medical check and that's about it.

Pufftmw

mroli wrote:

Rubertoe - there is an "uber" equivalent for LTDA - its called Hailo.

There are a couple of others as well such as CabApp.

Hailo has recently p'd off its drivers by applying for a Private Hire operators licence so that they can open up the app to Private Hire drivers. Was in the news recently. Black cab drivers responded by uninstalling the app and removing Hailo stickers and liveries - there was even a fight at their SE1 office. Try and find a black cab now with a Hailo sticker/livery and they are very few and far between, whereas before it would have been 50%. Talk about own goal!

markhewitt1978

The black cab thing sounds like a monopoly / racket and we'd be better off without them.

It's notable that they are protesting about the app because it replicates the function of a taximeter in a private hire car, when taximeters are perfectly legal and normal anywhere outside London.

fat_tail

globalization + technology = reduction in barriers to entry.

I wonder what the price of a London taxi permit is now ? And what will it be in 5 years ?

MrSweary

mroli wrote:

I disagree with most people on here. The vast majority of black cab drivers that I come across have been courteous and know the capabilities and width of their vehicles very well and drive safely.

Can't say I agree. Whilst obviously not all black cab drivers are crap they are the only group of road users in my 13 years of commuting in London who I find consistently use their vehicles in an aggressive and dangerous manner around cyclists - from U-turning without looking, puling in without looking, pulling over to deliberately block, to driving at cyclists (me!) to intimidate they are overwhelmingly represented amongst my experience of bad driving in the capital.

More than that though they are an overpriced, polluting, anachronism who often express their own sense of entitlement over other road users. High time they had competition at least. Ideally I'd like to see them in less polluting vehicles too.

tgotb

I've been involved in three collisions since I started cycling in London, in all three cases I was rear-ended. One was a drafting fairy on a bicycle who apologised for his stupidity; the other two were black cab drivers who admitted to doing it on purpose, effectively because I wasn't riding in the gutter. In both the latter cases I was doing 15-20mph; if I'd fallen off the consequences would have been fairly severe...

Ben6899

This knowledge thing...

How come 100% of black cab drivers I have used so far do not know where my street* is?

*it's a Victorian street in Zone 2 so not like it's just been built.

markhewitt1978

Uber must be loving this, the cab drivers have done more to promote Uber than any advertising campaign they could have ever dreamt up.

mpdouglas

I think the Chinese proverb of "be careful what you wish for, it may come true" applies here. Do we really want to substitute black cabs (which are subject to 2 MOTs per year, are visually identifiable as a vehicle that may suddenly pull in/U-turn etc, and have drivers that know where they are going without prodding away at a smartphone) with unmaintained Nissan Primeras that just blend into the general morass of cars, with drivers constantly distracted by their Uber smartphone app?!

Better the devil you know (and can spot from 100 yards away) for me. And in two years of daily Surbiton -> London and back commuting, I can't say that I have experienced black cabs doing the things that others have referenced. I have had a passenger open a door in my path once that I missed by all of an eight of an inch but that's hardly the cabbies fault.

There are bigoted cabbies just like there are bigoted cyclists, pedestrians and drivers. Wiping out black cabs won't change that, it'll just push the current cabbies into an unmarked mini cab!

iPete

Well it looks like they've all parked on Embankment.

*tucks D-lock into shorts*

monkimark

With their doors open. Wankers.

markhewitt1978

Can't believe I would ever say this but; Maggie would sort them out, lol

rubertoe

how is it looking around whitehall and Trafalger?

Applespider

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Uber must be loving this, the cab drivers have done more to promote Uber than any advertising campaign they could have ever dreamt up.

Apparently their sign-ups have increased by 850% in the last week.

Add me to the list of those who aren't particularly fond of cabbies. It's not just for some of their poor driving habits but because of their occasional times of ignoring those hailing them if they're en route home (even with their light on) or deciding they don't want to go south of the river.

As for the 'Knowledge', I'm sure they're brilliant at finding all the rat runs in zone 1 but get outside that and they stick to the most congested routes - even when you suggest as a passenger going an alternate one. And, of course, the meter ticks up throughout...

itboffin

Koncordski wrote:

It's hard to put into words how little i respect cabbies. They drive like nobody else exists, lobby to keep high polluting vehicles exempt, think they should qualify for every special rule going and are without doubt all total bastards. Screw em.

where is the +1 and like buttons?

true dat!

itboffin

TGOTB wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

They go on about "the knoweldge" all the time, that is their arguement.

That they have to train to get to drive a HC, where as anyone with a sat nav and a driving licence can drive a mini cab and do it cheaper.

All I care about, as a customer, is the service provided. If someone else who hasn't done the training can provide the same level of service with a satnav that's fine by me. If someone provides a poorer service, at a cheaper price, that's also fine, and people will choose whichever service suits them better, based on their own price/service tradeoff, just as some people choose the bus, tube etc. It's what's known as a free market.

again where are the buttons?

couldn't agree more is 2014 not 1814 - FREE MARKET join in or go HOME

itboffin

TGOTB wrote:

I've been involved in three collisions since I started cycling in London, in all three cases I was rear-ended. One was a drafting fairy on a bicycle who apologised for his stupidity; the other two were black cab drivers who admitted to doing it on purpose, effectively because I wasn't riding in the gutter. In both the latter cases I was doing 15-20mph; if I'd fallen off the consequences would have been fairly severe...

hmmm much like this "IT Boffin" chap on bikeradar ...is that you by any chance?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/b ... ing-29908/

rick_chasey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... KUL0aETyoU

You can see why they're doing it. They charge ridiculous amounts for what they do, and so far they have had this little rule to keep their prices high. Now there's a way around it and they're fighting tooth and nail.

EKE_38BPM

itboffin wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

I've been involved in three collisions since I started cycling in London, in all three cases I was rear-ended. One was a drafting fairy on a bicycle who apologised for his stupidity; the other two were black cab drivers who admitted to doing it on purpose, effectively because I wasn't riding in the gutter. In both the latter cases I was doing 15-20mph; if I'd fallen off the consequences would have been fairly severe...

hmmm much like this "IT Boffin" chap on bikeradar ...is that you by any chance?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/b ... ing-29908/

Blimey! I wasn't expecting to see a picture of me three bikes ago!

Black cab drivers: Generally tossers in my experience. Nowhere near as good as they think they are and, as a group, they have a massive sense of entitlement.

Black cabs: An urbanised 4x4 (same/similar chassis as a Range Rover) so heavy. Old, dirty engines. Add the two together and you get an inefficient, highly polluting vehicle. Probably not as bad as the old New York Yellow/Checker cabs though with their ~4 litre V8 engines. Just what you need to drive around New York!

The Knowledge: Brilliant in the days before Sat Nav, but so out of date that even cabbies who have spent years learning London's streets use them now. When was the last time you saw a Black Cab WITHOUT at least one Sat Nav.

Addison Lee: Universally disliked by all road users. I heard that when a driver applies for a job with Addison Lee they have to take a driving test. If they fail, they get the job.

itboffin

Rick Chasey wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VKUL0aETyoU

You can see why they're doing it. They charge ridiculous amounts for what they do, and so far they have had this little rule to keep their prices high. Now there's a way around it and they're fighting tooth and nail.

yep back in the day it was £50+ quid to go east even though most of them were going that way home anyway, and going Sarf of the river, jeez you'd think it was full of zombies or something.

wankers the lot of em, the sooner they go the better

itboffin

EKE_38BPM wrote:

itboffin wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

I've been involved in three collisions since I started cycling in London, in all three cases I was rear-ended. One was a drafting fairy on a bicycle who apologised for his stupidity; the other two were black cab drivers who admitted to doing it on purpose, effectively because I wasn't riding in the gutter. In both the latter cases I was doing 15-20mph; if I'd fallen off the consequences would have been fairly severe...

hmmm much like this "IT Boffin" chap on bikeradar ...is that you by any chance?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/b ... ing-29908/

Blimey! I wasn't expecting to see a picture of me three bikes ago!

Black cab drivers: Generally tossers in my experience. Nowhere near as good as they think they are and, as a group, they have a massive sense of entitlement.

Black cabs: An urbanised 4x4 (same/similar chassis as a Range Rover) so heavy. Old, dirty engines. Add the two together and you get an inefficient, highly polluting vehicle. Probably not as bad as the old New York Yellow/Checker cabs though with their ~4 litre V8 engines. Just what you need to drive around New York!

The Knowledge: Brilliant in the days before Sat Nav, but so out of date that even cabbies who have spent years learning London's streets use them now. When was the last time you saw a Black Cab WITHOUT at least one Sat Nav.

Addison Lee: Universally disliked by all road users. I heard that when a driver applies for a job with Addison Lee they have to take a driving test. If they fail, they get the job.

PS. matey those NYC yellow cabs are history, some rule can in from the mayor they're all now mini SUV type things, well almost all but the big arse iconic NYC cabs are no more

itboffin

oh and the flat rate from the airports into the city WTF dont we have that?

awavey

itboffin wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

itboffin wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

I've been involved in three collisions since I started cycling in London, in all three cases I was rear-ended. One was a drafting fairy on a bicycle who apologised for his stupidity; the other two were black cab drivers who admitted to doing it on purpose, effectively because I wasn't riding in the gutter. In both the latter cases I was doing 15-20mph; if I'd fallen off the consequences would have been fairly severe...

hmmm much like this "IT Boffin" chap on bikeradar ...is that you by any chance?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/b ... ing-29908/

Blimey! I wasn't expecting to see a picture of me three bikes ago!

Black cab drivers: Generally tossers in my experience. Nowhere near as good as they think they are and, as a group, they have a massive sense of entitlement.

Black cabs: An urbanised 4x4 (same/similar chassis as a Range Rover) so heavy. Old, dirty engines. Add the two together and you get an inefficient, highly polluting vehicle. Probably not as bad as the old New York Yellow/Checker cabs though with their ~4 litre V8 engines. Just what you need to drive around New York!

The Knowledge: Brilliant in the days before Sat Nav, but so out of date that even cabbies who have spent years learning London's streets use them now. When was the last time you saw a Black Cab WITHOUT at least one Sat Nav.

Addison Lee: Universally disliked by all road users. I heard that when a driver applies for a job with Addison Lee they have to take a driving test. If they fail, they get the job.

PS. matey those NYC yellow cabs are history, some rule can in from the mayor they're all now mini SUV type things, well almost all but the big ars* iconic NYC cabs are no more

been like for nearly 20 years in fact, the cab has to be changed every 6 years, so there are no iconic NYC cabs anymore...which is a shame IMO, but black cabs arent quite what they were either anymore.

oddly finding myself stuck chatting to a cabbie today, he said the protest wasnt about Uber, that was just media spin (allegedly), it was more about issues with TFL, who he banged on particularly pointing out are the ones who set his fares, and how private hires in general flout the law in getting hires, which he did have a point they do IME

EKE_38BPM

awavey wrote:

itboffin wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

itboffin wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

I've been involved in three collisions since I started cycling in London, in all three cases I was rear-ended. One was a drafting fairy on a bicycle who apologised for his stupidity; the other two were black cab drivers who admitted to doing it on purpose, effectively because I wasn't riding in the gutter. In both the latter cases I was doing 15-20mph; if I'd fallen off the consequences would have been fairly severe...

hmmm much like this "IT Boffin" chap on bikeradar ...is that you by any chance?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/b ... ing-29908/

Blimey! I wasn't expecting to see a picture of me three bikes ago!

Black cab drivers: Generally tossers in my experience. Nowhere near as good as they think they are and, as a group, they have a massive sense of entitlement.

Black cabs: An urbanised 4x4 (same/similar chassis as a Range Rover) so heavy. Old, dirty engines. Add the two together and you get an inefficient, highly polluting vehicle. Probably not as bad as the old New York Yellow/Checker cabs though with their ~4 litre V8 engines. Just what you need to drive around New York!

The Knowledge: Brilliant in the days before Sat Nav, but so out of date that even cabbies who have spent years learning London's streets use them now. When was the last time you saw a Black Cab WITHOUT at least one Sat Nav.

Addison Lee: Universally disliked by all road users. I heard that when a driver applies for a job with Addison Lee they have to take a driving test. If they fail, they get the job.

PS. matey those NYC yellow cabs are history, some rule can in from the mayor they're all now mini SUV type things, well almost all but the big ars* iconic NYC cabs are no more

been like for nearly 20 years in fact, the cab has to be changed every 6 years, so there are no iconic NYC cabs anymore...which is a shame IMO, but black cabs arent quite what they were either anymore.

oddly finding myself stuck chatting to a cabbie today, he said the protest wasnt about Uber, that was just media spin (allegedly), it was more about issues with TFL, who he banged on particularly pointing out are the ones who set his fares, and how private hires in general flout the law in getting hires, which he did have a point they do IME

Note the bit in bold:
"...old New York Yellow/Checker cabs though with their ~4 litre V8 engines. Just what you need to drive around New York!"