Wednesday's Black Cab Über-Protest

jamesco

Tomorrow's the day that the black cabs are scheduled to jam up London roads more than they usually do - does anyone know exactly where and when it's going down?

Searching the news, this article mentions Trafalgar Square and this one says mid-afternoon - if that's all it is then it doesn't sound like it'll be a big drama, but I was thinking of taking the tube to avoid the hassle of filtering 11 miles past angry drivers.

rubertoe

Hmmm.... Might have to avoid trafalgar square tomorrow but i bet it is no worse than normal

elbowloh

Uh dunno. Remember when the motorbikers were protesting the introduction of parking fees for motorbikes in Westminster, they went round and round TS very slowly all morning? Caused fecking chaos (Well for me anyway).

monkimark

Click the links in the second story and all is revealed https://twitter.com/TheLTDA

Koncordski

It's hard to put into words how little i respect cabbies. They drive like nobody else exists, lobby to keep high polluting vehicles exempt, think they should qualify for every special rule going and are without doubt all total bastards. Screw em.

monkimark

True that. In 20 odd years cycling on the roads I've been hit by 3 cars (none serious) - 2 of them were cabs, they were both entirely in the wrong and they both reacted by blaming me for having the temerity to be on the road.

The other was a woman opening a car door into me when I was about 14 but she was very apologetic about it

timothyw

Funnily enough I used to ride with a club that had a black cab driver as a member - nice bloke.

I did sometimes wonder how he drove when in the cab. I remember him having a set to with a black cab driver that passed us a bit too close, funnily enough.

The main signal that he was a cab driver was that he was a master of the one way conversation - he could go on for hours and you couldn't get a word in edgeways.

Out on my commute it's the private hire vehicles that are more of a threat.

Brakeless

I've never really understood why cabs are allowed in bus lanes. They're earning money using the roads the same as delivery drivers. The only argument I've been given is that more people will drive into London if their car journey is as quick or slow as a cabs, this argument doesn't really add up as there aren't enough affordable parking spaces to make this a reality. If Black cabs have to sit in traffic then more people will either walk short journeys or use public transport or Boris Bikes which will be quicker as there are no black cabs in the bus lanes.

monkimark

Probably due in part to the LTDA, who have some lovely videos up on their site - I can't view Youtube at work but 'cycling is a backward form of transport' and '53% of cyclist ignore red lights' are sure to be even handed and unbiased assessments of the facts.
The LTDA also do sterling work keeping dangerous drivers on the road and driving black cabs (check out the 'badgesafe' link on their website)

Normally when drivers accumulate 12 points on their licence they receive an automatic 6 month ban, but in the case of LTDA members, over 90% of those represented by our barristers receive a ban of just 1 month, or in most cases, no ban whatsoever.

gbsahne001

The one day of the year when I get to ride into London for work and it has to coincide with this.....

crossed

Koncordski wrote:

It's hard to put into words how little i respect cabbies. They drive like nobody else exists, lobby to keep high polluting vehicles exempt, think they should qualify for every special rule going and are without doubt all total bastards. Screw em.

Wow, it's almost like you read my mind there. I 100% agree with what you say, they're probably the worst drivers on the road!
I think that black cab drivers might actually be even worse than Addison Lee minicab drivers and that's saying a lot :shock:

rjsterry

On the one hand, I see no reason why one group of road users should have such a privileged position, but on the other, the thought of more minicabs - assuming that is what the inevitable de-regulation will mean - is not something that fills me with joy.

monkimark

I would have thought that the number of minicabs on the road will be limited by demand for their services and the advantage with minicabs is that they don't spend all day driving round empty if there are no fares to be had.

tgotb

Crossed wrote:

I think that black cab drivers might actually be even worse than Addison Lee minicab drivers and that's saying a lot :shock:

The difference is that if an Addison Lee driver cuts you up it will be because he's incompetent and didn't see you, whereas if a black cab driver cuts you up he almost certainly did it on purpose.

I too don't understand the rationale for allowing black cabs to use bus lanes. In theory I suppose it's to promote the use of public transport, but in practice a black cab with one passenger generates the same amount of congestion and pollution as a private car (possibly more...)

There are places (outside Richmond Station, for example) where the sheer number of black cabs queuing to pick up passengers, performing U-turns to get into the queue and again part way down the queue, effectively gridlocks the whole area.

I don't blame the black cab drivers for trying to protect their monopoly, but if they want my sympathy they're going to have to work pretty hard to earn it...

surrey_commuter

I assume that Addison Lee drivers are doing it deliberately.

The Rookie

TGOTB wrote:

I too don't understand the rationale for allowing black cabs to use bus lanes. In theory I suppose it's to promote the use of public transport, but in practice a black cab with one passenger generates the same amount of congestion and pollution as a private car (possibly more...)

The rationale is that they are part of the public transport infrastructure as the person using the cab isn't using a car for that journey which is likely to have included rail transport (that's the rationale anyway!).

I would say they produce twice the pollution (well more as they are heavier and use less up to date engines than many private cars) as they only travel one way usefully before returning somewhere while performing no useful transport function.

Paulie W

Listened to an item on the radio this morning about this - I cannot see the argument of the Black Cab drivers no matter how hard I try.

monkimark

if that is the rationale then all private hire vehicles should be exempt - they're just as much part of the public transport infrastructure as a black cab.

At least minicabs only drive on the way to a pick-up or while carrying passengers. Black cabs must spend a significant portion of the day driving round in circles looking for fares - a completely pointless journey. They also do a good line in suddenly stopping across cycle lanes, on red routes etc blocking all the other traffic on the road.

tgotb

Paulie W wrote:

Listened to an item on the radio this morning about this - I cannot see the argument of the Black Cab drivers no matter how hard I try.

That's because the real reason for the protest is that someone's challenging the black cab monopoly by out-competing them. They obviously can't admit that, so they have to fabricate an argument that sounds like something other than pure self interest.

rjsterry

As I understand it the regs are set up so that only Hackney carriages can be hailed anywhere and charge via a meter. Über have got round this by using your phone to 'book' the minicab, and then using their app on your phone to act like a meter instead of agreeing a fixed charge as minicabs normally do. TfL consider this not to be a meter or hailing in the street, and therefore absolutely fine. The LTDA consider it to be getting round the regs, and directly competing with HCs without the "higher" <ahem> standards required of HC drivers.

In short one of the last remnants of the protectionist guild system is finally succumbing to modernity and they don't like it.

markhewitt1978

They are very much the antithesis of "practice makes perfect"

MrSweary

I have to say black cabbies are consistently the most deliberately inconsiderate drivers on the road in my experience.

Filthy polluting things too. Glad Uber are sticking it to them frankly.

Perhaps we should have a counter-counter protest where find the go slow cabs, ride even more slowly in front of them thus freeing up junctions for other less backward road users..

monkimark

They'll just drive over you

pblakeney

Hire a bus and park it.

rubertoe

They go on about "the knoweldge" all the time, that is their arguement.

That they have to train to get to drive a HC, where as anyone with a sat nav and a driving licence can drive a mini cab and do it cheaper.

tgotb

rubertoe wrote:

They go on about "the knoweldge" all the time, that is their arguement.

That they have to train to get to drive a HC, where as anyone with a sat nav and a driving licence can drive a mini cab and do it cheaper.

All I care about, as a customer, is the service provided. If someone else who hasn't done the training can provide the same level of service with a satnav that's fine by me. If someone provides a poorer service, at a cheaper price, that's also fine, and people will choose whichever service suits them better, based on their own price/service tradeoff, just as some people choose the bus, tube etc. It's what's known as a free market.

markhewitt1978

It's the same thing we've seen in so many industries, a new technology comes along and instead of embracing it, they fight it. Look at how long the music industry tried to hold back the flood with digital downloads.

monkimark

If the LTDA insisted on a higher standard of driving (advanced drving qualifications, regular retraining, robust procedure for dealing with complaints etc) then their argument might hold some water.

bompington

markhewitt1978 wrote:

It's the same thing we've seen in so many industries, a new technology comes along and instead of embracing it, they fight it. Look at how long the music industry tried to hold back the flood with digital downloads.

Yeah, it's not like they had anything to lose is it? Oh hang on...

rubertoe

TGOTB wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

They go on about "the knoweldge" all the time, that is their arguement.

That they have to train to get to drive a HC, where as anyone with a sat nav and a driving licence can drive a mini cab and do it cheaper.

All I care about, as a customer, is the service provided. If someone else who hasn't done the training can provide the same level of service with a satnav that's fine by me. If someone provides a poorer service, at a cheaper price, that's also fine, and people will choose whichever service suits them better, based on their own price/service tradeoff, just as some people choose the bus, tube etc. It's what's known as a free market.

Agreed.

But theyd ont want ot to be a free market. They have a monopoly. As much as i dislike Addison Lee, at least they are provideing competetion and it appears now that Uber are as well.

Here is a thought, why dont the LTDA do something similar?

mroli

I disagree with most people on here. The vast majority of black cab drivers that I come across have been courteous and know the capabilities and width of their vehicles very well and drive safely. The reason that people think that ALL black cab drivers are liabilities is for the same reason that people think that ALL cyclists behave in a bad manner - one does it and is associated with the whole lot.

Black cab drivers have to do the knowledge. This is an extensive training course for driving on London's streets and most cabbies prepare for it on 2 wheels. Black cabs also have a rigorous mechanical standard to reach. There is also a test to pass.

Mini-cab drivers have a far less rigorous licensing/testing requirement. As long as you've held a driving licence for 3 years (UK/EU), you are "qualified" to drive in London...

I prefer black cabs to mini cabs - I've been hit by a black cab, but I was pretty reassured that I had the guy's licence no and that he would be insured (he was).

Rubertoe - there is an "uber" equivalent for LTDA - its called Hailo.