Best bottle cage (yes, sorry, but..)

2

Comments

  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Interesting to see that practically none of the teams at this years Paris Roubaix used Elite Race type cages. Sky and Katusha used old alu Elite Ciussi cages and many used Tacx Tao cages plus cheap Taxc alu cages ;-)
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Recently replaced a Blackburn Swerve Ti cage with an Arundel Mandible because the Ti cage snapped after about 2 years. So that's one that is definitely not the best.

    The Arundel is as light and there is no rattle at all. Only problem for me so far is that my spaghetti arms just don't have the strength to get the bottle in and out easily. It grips it that tight.

    I've also had a Tacx Tao for years but relegated it to the downtube cage because it is also a bit fiddly to get the bottle in and out of. Other than that it is great.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    All this over a water bottle cage??? :lol::lol::lol::lol: :roll:
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    dennisn wrote:
    All this over a water bottle cage??? :lol::lol::lol::lol: :roll:
    It's surprisingly important when you are racing, along with other seemingly trivial things such as the ease of opening of your gel packets, perfect functioning of gear shifting etc. The cage needs to hold the bottle securely over big bumps at speed and also be easy to insert and remove the bottle from. Simple, but many cages fail on one or both of these counts.

    Incidentally I got the Elite custom races and they are doing fine so far. Easier to insert and remove than I anticipated, I've still to test them over big bumps but they seem a bit more secure than my last cages. A lot depends on the bottle you pair them with and the position and shape of the recessed section at the top.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    neeb wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    All this over a water bottle cage??? :lol::lol::lol::lol: :roll:
    It's surprisingly important when you are racing, along with other seemingly trivial things such as the ease of opening of your gel packets, perfect functioning of gear shifting etc. The cage needs to hold the bottle securely over big bumps at speed and also be easy to insert and remove the bottle from. Simple, but many cages fail on one or both of these counts.

    Incidentally I got the Elite custom races and they are doing fine so far. Easier to insert and remove than I anticipated, I've still to test them over big bumps but they seem a bit more secure than my last cages. A lot depends on the bottle you pair them with and the position and shape of the recessed section at the top.

    Sorry, but you seem to be making mountains from molehills.
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    Something a bit different and much nicer, King Iris cages.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    dennisn wrote:
    Sorry, but you seem to be making mountains from molehills.
    :roll:
    Dennis, I'm never sure if you are deliberately trolling or if it is just some weird unconscious reflex... :wink:
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    neeb wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Sorry, but you seem to be making mountains from molehills.
    :roll:
    Dennis, I'm never sure if you are deliberately trolling or if it is just some weird unconscious reflex... :wink:

    It's a forum. Just saying what I think.
  • mekong_velo
    mekong_velo Posts: 102
    jezzpalmer wrote:
    I've got a couple of Arundel Mandibles, they are great.
    Easy to locate a bottle when replacing a bottle.
    They are renowned for being pretty grippy, which they are, but does mean a bit of effort is require to get he bottle in and out. That said I'd be amazed if you could lose a bottle without a crash being involved.


    +1
    Cervelo R3
    Tarmac Elite
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    dennisn wrote:
    It's a forum. Just saying what I think.

    But pretty much everything on this forum is trivial. If you don't want entirely trivial and ultimately pointless conversations about bikes then why come on here in the first place?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • MisterMuncher
    MisterMuncher Posts: 1,302
    Lezyne Flow Cages with Camelbak Podium 500ml bottles (old shape). Go together like Lego.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Rolf F wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    It's a forum. Just saying what I think.

    But pretty much everything on this forum is trivial. If you don't want entirely trivial and ultimately pointless conversations about bikes then why come on here in the first place?

    It is trivial, just like you said. Just pointing that out. I think that there are no bad or stupid questions. Only bad and stupid answers. Still, if someone needs help picking out a bottle cage it makes me wonder. :?
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    dennisn wrote:
    It is trivial, just like you said. Just pointing that out. I think that there are no bad or stupid questions. Only bad and stupid answers. Still, if someone needs help picking out a bottle cage it makes me wonder. :?
    <sigh> Look, it's quite simple. The last cages I had had a tendency to drop bottles. Dropping bottles in a race is not good, and while not usually a disaster, hardly trivial either. So I wanted to find a bottle cage that held bottles better and was also easy to use. The properties of a bottle cage while in use are not immediately apparent from examining it on a shelf in a bike shop, never mind a picture on the internet. So I asked here.

    Comprende? :)

    It's a complete mystery to me how you could think this subject is any more trivial than all of the debates we have on here about sunglasses, stem stiffness, wheel weight, etc.... :)
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    MisterMuncher wrote:
    Lezyne Flow Cages with Camelbak Podium 500ml bottles (old shape). Go together like Lego.

    That's what I have settled on. They grip the bottles extremely securely; I can imagine they'd be perfect over cobbles. More importantly for me, they are completely silent. Bonus is that the plastic doesn't mark the bottles at all
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    OnYourRight wrote:
    Another thread for dennisn. :wink:

    Gotta agree with the last post on that thread. It's only a bottle cage. Buy them, fit them, go for a ride. :roll:
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    Really trying to resist the temptation to get baited here, but the thought processes are fascinating...

    Why is it "only" a bottle cage? Why is the functionality of a bottle cage less important than, say, the slickness of a gear shifter or the ride feel of a tyre? It's something you use all of the time and which has to do its job. Available products differ considerably.

    My only current hypothesis to explain your thinking is that it's "only" a bottle cage because it's (usually) a relatively cheap product. But that has little logical bearing on the triviality or otherwise of trying to get a good one, other than perhaps that bad ones are cheaper to replace than other products.

    So here is my best-guess model of Dennis' bike-product-discussion-triviality-assessment algorithim:

    1/T = v (0.1 * Δq * c)

    Where T = triviality, v = average financial value of product in USD, Δq = difference range in functional quality among available products on a scale of 1-10, and c = consequences of failure/poor performance on a scale of 1-10.

    I think something like this would be much better:

    1/T = (Δq * c) + (0.1 * v)

    Maybe it could be implemented in dennisn v 2.01?

    :wink:
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    neeb wrote:
    Available products differ considerably.

    If they "differ considerably" give me 10 ways that they "differ considerably". Key word being "considerably". Make sure all the reasons deal with with how they effectively they hold a water bottle( since that seems to be your main concern) and not how they look or what they are made from. Also, please provide any research data that you've found or read about that shows friction analysis between different bottle and cages. :wink:
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    First consideration is how they look on the bike, after all they are quite prominent. Second consideration is how well they hold the bottle. I see too many nice bikes with horrible cages and crappy bottles. The three I have are Mandibles, Zipp and Planet X. The PX ones are fine except they have Planet X and the weight written on them they are a good shape though and cheap. The Mandibles are the tightest. I cant see why this thread is any more trivial than any of the others, its just boys talking about toys.
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    OnYourRight wrote:
    That’s probably because most buyers think as dennisn does and don’t really care what rubbish they get.

    Good design seems to thrive somewhere in between: where competition exists and where customers spend some effort selecting from the available choice. Bicycle tyres .... for example.

    I use metal bottle cages. If they don't hold the bottle securely then I bend them till they do. At 5 to 10 dollars apiece I think that's simplicity all the way, great design, and value. So, I guess I do care.

    As for bike tires. For every 10 people who rave about brand X there are 10 people that call them garbage and swear brand Y is the only way to go. So be my guest and "....spend some effort selecting from....".

    Somewhere along the line ya gotta use the brain that God gave you and make decisions on your own. Why would you not do this? Sure beats moaning and groaning about which tire or bottle cage you should buy. What makes the rest of the internet more knowledgeable than you? You ride, you know a thing or two, you own tires, you have bottle cages. Make a decision on your own, live with it, learn from it. At least you made it and not some unknown web crawler.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    First consideration is how they look on the bike, after all they are quite prominent.

    Showoff / bling is a whole other area. The OP talks as if he's riding cobbles everyday, not prancing about town looking sparkly.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    It easy easy to get them wrong. On my bikes I have, or have had:

    1) Look carbon cages - excellent. Light, functional, ultra cool looking, don't scratch the bottles to hell
    2) Chinese carbon cages - crap. Thick and heavy for the material, badly shaped, weak. Did hold the bottles well but since they almost crushed the bottles, that was hardly surprising. Scratched the bottles up in no time.
    3) Elite Custom. OK. Cheap, hold bottle reasonably well (did have one ejection somewhere on the descent of Wrynose!), scratched the bottles in no time.
    4) Traditional alloy - cheap, grip bottles well. Scratch bottles due to soft material
    5) Blackburn stainless. Cheap, grip bottles reasonably well but shape needs a bit of tweaking. Don't mark the bottles much.

    So, different prices, different performances. Seems to be something where you can easily waste money by buying the wrong product and therefore reasonable to ask for advice on something like a bike forum.

    Even if something is cheap, why wouldn't you want to buy the right thing first time?
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    First consideration is how they look on the bike, after all they are quite prominent. Second consideration is how well they hold the bottle.

    But this is silly. First consideration should always be how it works. Anything else is daft. Looks can trump function if there isn't much in it but otherwise function must be the priority. Which is why I have the Blackburn stainless cages on a carbon bike. They don't look as good as either the Elite Custom or the Chinese carbon but they are far, far better performers than either of the other cages so they win.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    The two considerations are of equal importance. Yep form should follow function but no point in producing something that works well but looks like a crock of sh*t. In the case of the Mandibles the the two things come together very well.
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Rolf F wrote:
    It easy easy to get them wrong. On my bikes I have, or have had:

    1) Look carbon cages - excellent. Light, functional, ultra cool looking, don't scratch the bottles to hell
    2) Chinese carbon cages - crap. Thick and heavy for the material, badly shaped, weak. Did hold the bottles well but since they almost crushed the bottles, that was hardly surprising. Scratched the bottles up in no time.
    3) Elite Custom. OK. Cheap, hold bottle reasonably well (did have one ejection somewhere on the descent of Wrynose!), scratched the bottles in no time.
    4) Traditional alloy - cheap, grip bottles well. Scratch bottles due to soft material
    5) Blackburn stainless. Cheap, grip bottles reasonably well but shape needs a bit of tweaking. Don't mark the bottles much.

    So, different prices, different performances. Seems to be something where you can easily waste money by buying the wrong product and therefore reasonable to ask for advice on something like a bike forum.

    Even if something is cheap, why wouldn't you want to buy the right thing first time?
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    First consideration is how they look on the bike, after all they are quite prominent. Second consideration is how well they hold the bottle.

    But this is silly. First consideration should always be how it works. Anything else is daft. Looks can trump function if there isn't much in it but otherwise function must be the priority. Which is why I have the Blackburn stainless cages on a carbon bike. They don't look as good as either the Elite Custom or the Chinese carbon but they are far, far better performers than either of the other cages so they win.

    Can't imagine how "It's easy to get them wrong."? Even the cheapest cages will perform the duty of holding a bottle and are not even noticeable on a bike, other than color.

    Bottle scratching??? Never, and I mean never, have I cared whether my bottles got scratched or marked. I'm sure though if you queried Pro riders they would tell you how they obsess over scratches. :lol: And you guys are doing what the pro's do? Right?
    Scratches on a water bottle? Even my wife doesn't worry about something that inane.

    So, you've had ALL these various bottle cages? Sounds like you switch around all the time?
    Why is that? Sounds to me like it's mostly for showoff / bling reasons and that's not the the OP's intent. Or so he says. He talks as if he's some hard charger yet I have my doubts. After all he did mention a bottle cages "pedigree".
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    OnYourRight wrote:
    I agree with much of what you say above, but this …
    Rolf F wrote:
    They don't look as good as either the Elite Custom or the Chinese carbon but they are far, far better performers than either of the other cages so they win.

    … invalidates your opinion on aesthetic matters. (In my opinion!)

    t0pk.jpg

    In what conceivable way does the sparsely elegant and quite purposeful design on the left not look as good as the overwrought and arbitrarily swoopy contraption on the right (touched off with cringeworthy typography because there just wasn’t enough visual noise there, do note)?

    Buying an ugly cage to match an ugly carbon bike does not strike me as a brilliant idea. Unremittingly ugly is worse than ugly in part.

    I should probably re-phrase that. The Blackburn cages look comparatively odd based on convention on a carbon bike. On the other hand, in profile I think the Elites look quite nice but seen from above, they are rather clunky, clumsy fat things! But I think that most people would favour the Elites.

    Here is the Ribble with each option. Photo quality a bit unfair with the metal cages! I think the Ribble is a nice enough looking bike and, at least at viewing distance, looks fine with either cage.

    P1000442ed_zps8d8f156d.jpg
    P1000792_zps1c6bbe63.jpg
    Faster than a tent.......
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    edited June 2014
    dennisn wrote:
    Bottle scratching??? Never, and I mean never, have I cared whether my bottles got scratched or marked. I'm sure though if you queried Pro riders they would tell you how they obsess over scratches. :lol: And you guys are doing what the pro's do? Right?
    Scratches on a water bottle? Even my wife doesn't worry about something that inane.

    So, you've had ALL these various bottle cages? Sounds like you switch around all the time?
    Why is that? Sounds to me like it's mostly for showoff / bling reasons and that's not the the OP's intent. Or so he says. He talks as if he's some hard charger yet I have my doubts. After all he did mention a bottle cages "pedigree".

    Dennisn. You are being a plonker. Really you are.

    1) Why do people have to be so irrelevant as to come up with the Pro comparison. No, I am not doing what the pros do. Are you not aware that a) Pros use their bottles once and then throw them to their adoring fans and b) they probably get new cages every few rides as well.
    2) Why wouldn't I 'worry' (your words) about scratches on the bottles - I like my kit to look smart. You might go out on your bike looking like you are in Colombos reject clothing but I don't. What has whether or not you don't mind scratched bottles got to do with whether I mind them?
    3) ALL (your capitals) these bottle cages? One pair of Look cages on my Look, one pair of alloy cages on my tourer, the carbon cages on my Ribble replaced by the Elites because the Chinese carbon were crap and the Elites replaced for the Blackburns. I have only replaced cages on my Ribble which has done 21000 miles so maybe not that frequently. I didn't realise bottle cages were rationed. I reckon my annual cage bill is around a fiver........ Criticise me for the number of bikes I own by all means but at least let me fit different cages to them.

    Try not to be an idiot Dennisn. At least try to stick to justifying your own arguments rather than making presumptions about my own situation when you have no idea.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    First option for me... The second makes the bike look really gloomy
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Rolf F wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Bottle scratching??? Never, and I mean never, have I cared whether my bottles got scratched or marked. I'm sure though if you queried Pro riders they would tell you how they obsess over scratches. :lol: And you guys are doing what the pro's do? Right?
    Scratches on a water bottle? Even my wife doesn't worry about something that inane.

    So, you've had ALL these various bottle cages? Sounds like you switch around all the time?
    Why is that? Sounds to me like it's mostly for showoff / bling reasons and that's not the the OP's intent. Or so he says. He talks as if he's some hard charger yet I have my doubts. After all he did mention a bottle cages "pedigree".

    Dennisn. You are being a plonker.

    Why wouldn't I 'worry' (your words) about scratches on the bottles - I like my kit to look smart. You might go out on your bike looking like you are in Colombos reject clothing but I don't. What has whether or not you don't mind scratched bottles got to do with whether I mind them?

    Try not to be an idiot Dennisn.

    You're right. I am "..being a plonker.".

    "I like my kit to look smart." I can only assume from that that your first interest in cycling is showoff / bling / look at me. That's not a problem with me. Just trying to establish what your prorities are. Mine are different apparently. In truth, I'm not out there to impress anyone. As a side note I've never heard anyone complain about scratched water bottles. That really is inexplicable to me.

    I'll "....try not to be an idiot...." but can't guarantee it. :wink:
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Mikey23 wrote:
    First option for me... The second makes the bike look really gloomy

    The sun hasn't come out since I put those cages on. And Dennisn doesn't think cages matter! :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • LegendLust
    LegendLust Posts: 1,022
    http://occlegend.wordpress.com/2013/10/ ... /#comments
    Selling my Legend frame
    http://owningalegend.wordpress.com/2014 ... ced-price/
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    dennisn wrote:
    You're right. I am "..being a plonker.".

    "I like my kit to look smart." I can only assume from that that your first interest in cycling is showoff / bling / look at me. That's not a problem with me. Just trying to establish what your prorities are. Mine are different apparently. In truth, I'm not out there to impress anyone. As a side note I've never heard anyone complain about scratched water bottles. That really is inexplicable to me.

    I'll "....try not to be an idiot...." but can't guarantee it. :wink:

    I don't know what your priorities are though I would like to know. But you are doing it again; making presumptions about stuff you have no idea about - how do you know what my priorities are? How can my attitude to bottle cages have any bearing on my attitude to riding my bikes? They are two separate and independent things. If you want to know my priority for this weekend it is to relax and do nothing. Because next weekend I am cycling coast to coast in one day. 150 miles and 15,000 feet of climbing. And I'll be doing it with smart bottles and cages. :wink:

    Look on the MTB forums. There are folk there who pull all the bolts out of their bikes and replace them with coloured anodised ones. Then they do the same with the jockey wheels and seat post clamps. Then they photograph the bikes before dismantling them and selling them on to fund the next build. All of this without actually riding the bike.

    To me that is daft but even that isn't inexplicable. They gain enjoyment out of their builds and for all I know take another bike out at the weekend and get it totally caked in mud. To say that you find that the idea of wanting a bottle cage that fits certain conditions rather than some any old random piece inexplicable is, to be honest, inexplicable!
    Faster than a tent.......

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