Power or Heart Rate or Power and Heart Rate.

Stalin

For me the whole train with power or heart rate argument is misleading. Both are valid, but measure different things.
Why ignore one just because you have the other?

Why not use them both?

drlodge

Power is expensive, heart rate is cheap.

imposter2.0

Stalin wrote:

For me the whole train with power or heart rate argument is misleading. Both are valid, but measure different things.
Why ignore one just because you have the other?

Why not use them both?

Why not refer to the countless other tedious threads on here where you have already discussed this ad nauseam?

Stalin

Imposter wrote:

Stalin wrote:

For me the whole train with power or heart rate argument is misleading. Both are valid, but measure different things.
Why ignore one just because you have the other?

Why not use them both?

Why not refer to the countless other tedious threads on here where you have already discussed this ad nauseam?

Oh dear, another one who does not like open debate. Best you ask the mods to remove this thread. But why not ignore the subject if you don't want to discuss it?

Some people use heart rate, some power, some use both. Why some would want to encourage others to abandon heart rate when they get a power meter is a subject worth discussion.

What is a cycling forum for if it isn't to discuss such things?

ongej

If both are available, then why not use both. I use power to tell me how hard to train, and observe heart-rate to see if I need to retest. If I see that the average lower heart rate over a period of time is lower for a given power, then I retest.. and on and on.

charlie_potatoes

Stalin wrote:

Oh dear, another one who does not like open debate.

Mmmm! Pot calling the kettle black I reckon

borisface

I smell a Trev the Rev.

Stalin

ongej wrote:

If both are available, then why not use both. I use power to tell me how hard to train, and observe heart-rate to see if I need to retest. If I see that the average lower heart rate over a period of time is lower for a given power, then I retest.. and on and on.

Well why not? But there are people who claim that when you know power heart rate is at best irrelevant and at worst misleading.

I don't agree with them. Discarding such data is bad science and plain daft.

charlie_potatoes

I only measure the right ventricle to balance the fact that I only measure left leg power

Team4Luke

Stalin wrote:

ongej wrote:

If both are available, then why not use both. I use power to tell me how hard to train, and observe heart-rate to see if I need to retest. If I see that the average lower heart rate over a period of time is lower for a given power, then I retest.. and on and on.

Well why not? But there are people who claim that when you know power heart rate is at best irrelevant and at worst misleading.

I don't agree with them. Discarding such data is bad science and plain daft.

no matter what some people beleive or read and then repeat, power is affected by just the same body states as is heart rate. Power is not Power in this sense. Too much coffee, HR bit high, well as caffeine is a small booster then so too may equally stick out some more watts does not mean you have improved your FTP or fitness, just aided a little artifically, tired, HR down does not mean you can maintain same power for same period, if your legs are tired then you won't be able to do so regardless of whatever screen you are looking at. Some days you can be on a flyer for no reason at all, again this one-off does not mean you have added some watts to your FTP, just the way the body reacts on a daily basis, if you happen to set you FTP on a "good day" then you would be setting your zones too high.
Measuring you power, HR drops for same power and average speed all over a trend period is what you need to be looking at for improvements wholesale across the board.
Everthing that affects your bodies ability to perform and train will be reflected in whatever means you measure it with.

Using Power and HR together is best you can do.

Tom Dean

Team4Luke wrote:

no matter what some people beleive or read and then repeat, power is affected by just the same body states as is heart rate. Power is not Power in this sense. Too much coffee, HR bit high, well as caffeine is a small booster then so too may equally stick out some more watts does not mean you have improved your FTP or fitness, just aided a little artifically, tired, HR down does not mean you can maintain same power for same period, if your legs are tired then you won't be able to do so regardless of whatever screen you are looking at. Some days you can be on a flyer for no reason at all, again this one-off does not mean you have added some watts to your FTP, just the way the body reacts on a daily basis, if you happen to set you FTP on a "good day" then you would be setting your zones too high.
Measuring you power, HR drops for same power and average speed all over a trend period is what you need to be looking at for improvements wholesale across the board.
Everthing that affects your bodies ability to perform and train will be reflected in whatever means you measure it with.

Using Power and HR together is best you can do.

I expect you will be able to quote some examples of people saying power output is not affected by e.g. tiredness?