Is a Canyon seat-tube part of a frame?

dolphin2000

Have a bike under 3years and covered by Canyon's frame and forks 6year guarantee. The seat tube has cracked, never raced, never crashed, never mistreated.

CanyonUK say the seat-tube is outside of the frame guarantee that I paid for, as the seat-tube is a non-stressed area and an unusual break point. So this part of the frame doesn't count as a frame guarantee claim.

Sounds like trying to fob me off??

I'll post pics later.

flasher

How possibly can the seat tube not be part of the frame!

Smells like more manufacturer BS.

dolphin2000

Decided to delete the thread it wont help sort my bike

sloppyschleckonds

Thats suffered an impact.

charlie_potatoes

I'm wondering why you have joined this forum Dolphin?
What is your agenda?

dolphin2000

It is a forum to discuss things. Feedback and shared knowledge and experiences. Agenda? What is yours?

No impact, only use on UK roads. Only noticed it whilst handwashing with a sponge otherwise would have been none the wiser.

This picture has the crack on the seat-tube - hard to see. Bike hasn't been mistreated, raced or crashed; seat-tube frame has failed.

dolphin2000

deleted

Pross

dolphin2000 wrote:

It is a forum to discuss things. Feedback and shared knowledge and experiences. Agenda? What is yours?

No impact, only use on UK roads. Only noticed it whilst handwashing with a sponge otherwise would have been none the wiser.

This picture has the crack on the seat-tube - hard to see. Bike hasn't been mistreated, raced or crashed; seat-tube frame has failed.

You only noticed that when washing the bike and think it's hard to see? :shock:

As for is it part of the frame - of course it is. Is it a UK warranty? If so small claims court I would suggest. It does look like an impact though.

adamfo

The seat tube is stressed. Instead of dealing with the monkey how about emailing the organ grinder in Germany ?

charlie_potatoes

Seem to get a lot of people joining this forum specifically to slag off a manufacturer or retailer.
You have joined and dug up a year old thread to do this. Hence my question.
Best of luck getting it sorted out but that won't happen on here.

dolphin2000

+1

I think that may be the way forward.

& yes I did only notice it when washing the frame! I'll try not spam any more pictures on here as that can be annoying. I've no idea when it happened, if it has been there a while, or happened on the last ride just before I spotted it. It's had no impacts bar being out on typical UK a&b-roads and their usual sometimes worn surfaces. Nothing I or anyone really, wouldn't expect a bike to handle. And I'm 13stone so not a featherweight but not a cyldesdale either.

No I think you're right CP. I'll chase it up and post on here if resolved or I've drawn a light under it. I've other Canyon bikes and liked all of them. Yes I've looked around on forums and tried to see how common it is, it is the first bike I've ever had that has failed, hope it is the last!! At the end of the day it's only a bike, but disappointing when one fails. I'll think twice about buying decisions in the future and I'll share my experience with the cycle-club I ride with. It depends on what you term slagging off, I'd say recounting a true and real-life experience, buys bike reasonably expensive and breaks in normal use. Rare, one-off, maybe. But still happened. Life happens!!

dolphin2000

Seat tube goes to 7.5 ish on the scale. I ride on 6, well a couple of mm under 6 actually. So inside the min/max range. 13stone / low 80s kg for anyone in metric!

I can only think must have worn over time and weakened and then one lump or bump or road cover or whatever too many and that was it gave up the ghost. Don't remember anything memorable though! Which is a good thing out on a road would be terrifying. Philosophical about it, had some great rides and wonderful use and enjoyed the bike thoroughly. Just disappointed it's now unusable. Wasn't the start to summer I was expecting.

Anyway it wont be sorted on here. Forums are for sharing good and bad experiences and outcomes. Which I've done. I'll take it up with Germany if I don't get anywhere. Cheers & best wishes.

Colinthecop

These pictures are taking ages to load - it's like being back on AOL dial-up. :roll:

DavidJB

dolphin2000 wrote:

No impact, only use on UK roads.

No impact on UK roads...I call bs 8)

dolphin2000

Just be aware that carbon frames do fail, there are plenty of people on here who have had cracks and failure develop on a frame. If they cannot fail why even offer a warranty as it will never be needed anyway so superflous.

If your Canyon bike does fail, through no fault of your own, and a crack develops. Then from my experience the retailer does not want to know, doesn't respond and ignores warranty. With any guarantee or warranty you are left to the retailer to act on it or claim in small-claims or via your card-company.

I'm looking at a small-claims or recompense via card-company as Canyon seemingly ignore when things go wrong.

So just be aware of that when making your next purchasing decision. Happy cycling )

adamfo

Is the seat tube cracking catastrophic caused by overloading or small fissures which can be from incorrect lay up.

What sort of seat post are you using ?

Your warranty is with Canyon Germany, what do they have to say ?

darkhairedlord

So are you talking about the seat post or the seat tube?
These are two different things!
The seat post (the bit that slides up and down and attaches to the saddle) is not part of the frame.

charlie_potatoes

dolphin2000 wrote:

So just be aware of that when making your next purchasing decision. Happy cycling )

I was easier for people to make there own judgement before you deleted the photos.
Can you post them up again?

dolphin2000

It's the seat-tube that has gone, round the back of it facing the seat-stays. The seat post is fine, it's the VCLS one that is Canyon's own. It appears to me that the frame hasn't taken the weight of me low 80kgs and the seat-tube hasn't held the movement/lateral load of the weight through the seatpost.

There isn't a mark anywhere else on the frame. It's not been crashed or jumped or anything and the wheels are true.

When you say "overloaded", it's been overloaded with regards to what the frame can cope with as it hasn't coped (clearly). But if you say overloaded as in "something you shouldn't have subjected it to" then no it hasn't had any mis-treatment. It's not taken the stress and load of rider 13stone something when the weight limit is 18 / 19stone ish.

The same as in "impact" it's had the impact of carrying me around roads, some of which are in the usual not great UK condition and clattery ride on some roads but only the same as you or I or anyone rides on. So if it has failed due to the "impact" of that, then this frame wasn't fit for purpose and was never going to last.

Exclusions on Canyon's T&Cs are:
neglect of product (lack of care and maintenance), modifications to frame or fork (for example engravings or lacquering), mounting and alteration of additional components that were not expressly approved by us or replacement of our original components by components that do not have a similar quality; crash; excessive load;
jumps; or excessive loads of any other kind.

I contacted Canyon and they replied once with the break isn't where our frames normally break and you can buy a new frame at a discount.

I've asked them where their frames do normally break? and which condition of their guarantee "get-out" clauses they are saying is applicable not to honour the warranty? & surprise days later no reply at all to either question.

So their only customer service has been to say, "buy a new frame". Haven't said which one of their conditions they are saying makes their 6year guarantee as sold invalid.

Anyone ever chased Canyon through through the courts for a resolution?

dolphin2000

And I've not posted on there to slag off a manufacturer. It's a forum I've come on here for advice, has anyone else handled such a situation with a retailer and carbon frame issues. It happens. Also to share my experience, as that is what forums are.

I've 5 bikes in my use, and more than one of them is a Canyon bike.Been and are top bikes I would recommend the bikes to anyone - been great. I ride with a cycle-club and there are many people with Canyon road bikes in the club-runs.

I'll think again when buying my next bikes and get something where if it breaks the warranty is worth the paper. Funnily enough all the other carbon bikes I've had and still have, all fine.

adamfo

You wouldn't loose financially taking the case to the small claims court. Obviously you'd need to ship the frame to Canyon so they can inspect it. I doubt they could prove you breeched the warranty terms.

charlie_potatoes

adamfo wrote:

You wouldn't loose financially taking the case to the small claims court. Obviously you'd need to ship the frame to Canyon so they can inspect it. I doubt they could prove you breeched the warranty terms.

I'm not so sure of that after looking at the (now deleted by OP) photo's.

Coach H

I have to say that I found Canyon to be great when my VCLS seatpost cracked after over a year of use.
Sent a couple of (not very good) photo's of the failure. They immediately said the type of crack indicated a layup fault and I had a new seatpost from Germany within a week. Didn't want the old post back and it still sits on my desk.

dolphin2000

I emailed and what they basically said was over two years old not interested.

Was your seat-post <2years old when it broke? The statutory warranty is two years, they voluntary offer a 6year guarantee; however, from my experience within two years good, after two years not interested. I'll assume from over a year of use it was still within the statutory 2years.

CharlieP no terms of the guarantee have been broken, as such it would not be possible for it to be proven as it has not happened. I know you own a canyon and are a bit of a canyon "fan-boy" that seems to be your agenda. Good luck with that I can't be bothered to argue with you.

I can prove how heavy I am! 40kgs less than the maximum weight. I can prove I can't operate the cranks/pedals with the seatpost past the maximum use-point as the post is too high and I can prove there is not a mark of damage anywhere on the frame or forks apart from where the seat-tube has split.

The real issue is that after two years-old, Canyon do not want to know and just say buy a new frame. Then do not answer anything. That shines brightly about them I think.

darkhairedlord

Which model is it?
Have you read the other thread re: cracked frames at the seat tube seat post area?

charlie_potatoes

Photo's?

cougie

I wanna see the photos too !

Druidor

is it the main tube or post tube ?

would be understandable to say its not if it the seat post tube as opposed to the main post tube that it slots into.

we need pictures

dolphin2000

No it's the seat-tube - the full bike is here.

Not sure how posting pictures helps me, I can't be bothered with arguing on the internet it achieves nothing! But this is my bike -

You can see the crack in the seat-tube about the same distance down as a "vcls" writing on the seat-stays

Deleted photos now.

dolphin2000

Same picture zoomed. Deleted now.

charlie_potatoes

They are not the same photo's as the ones you originally posted are they?
The originals were a lot clearer. Where are they?

dolphin2000 wrote:

You can see the crack in the seat-tube about the same distance down as a "vcls" writing on the seat-stays

If you post up the photo of the other side we would see that it is not just a crack is it Dolphin?