Scottish Independence Referendum

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

I think you may have missed the point Mr. VTech.

Much in the same way that people misquote the saying - Money is the root of all evil.

The full quote is - The pursuit of money is the root of all evil.

Having money is fine. Enjoying spending money is fine. Earning enough to be content is fine. Where it goes wrong is when people lose track of the objective and quality of life is replaced by the pursuit of possessions of fill holes in their lives.
Especially when those chasing the most appear to give up quality of life to achieve possessions in a concrete jungle.

I am not trying to justify how people live lives or what they chose to spend their cash on, for me its great to travel, for others its an abhorrent waste of resources and causes huge destruction to the planet. Question is, who is right or wrong ?
On a personal level, If I were going to be unhappy, I would rather be unhappy and rich, than unhappy and poor. Im actually neither in reality.

@nathancom, people are getting used to your nastiness, I see you have less gimp type followers week by week as they see how nasty you really are. Im happy about that.

nathancom

So anyone who disagrees with you is a gimp now.

This is really boring you constantly picking fights. You will end up making up some more BS like the wife texting story.

Anyway I am out, have fun arguing with yourself Vtech.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

On a personal level, If I were going to be unhappy, I would rather be unhappy and rich, than unhappy and poor. Im actually neither in reality.

You appear to have missed the point. Again.

As you have admitted on other threads that you have neglected your family and are missing your daughter growing up, I would question the validity of your happiness.

We are now too far off topic. This is supposed to be about Scottish independence, not a certain Mr. VTech.

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

On a personal level, If I were going to be unhappy, I would rather be unhappy and rich, than unhappy and poor. Im actually neither in reality.

You appear to have missed the point. Again.

As you have admitted on other threads that you have neglected your family and are missing your daughter growing up, I would question the validity of your happiness.

We are now too far off topic. This is supposed to be about Scottish independence, not a certain Mr. VTech.

I got your point fully, I sold my business in december and now live fully in the UK, am at home 7 weeks in every 8 and am much happier. I am the first to admit that going after more isn't the best. The reality is the lifestyle I worked within was of others, I was just a worker in that environment.

nicklouse

VTech wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

On a personal level, If I were going to be unhappy, I would rather be unhappy and rich, than unhappy and poor. Im actually neither in reality.

You appear to have missed the point. Again.

As you have admitted on other threads that you have neglected your family and are missing your daughter growing up, I would question the validity of your happiness.

We are now too far off topic. This is supposed to be about Scottish independence, not a certain Mr. VTech.

I got your point fully, I sold my business in december and now live fully in the UK, am at home 7 weeks in every 8 and am much happier. I am the first to admit that going after more isn't the best. The reality is the lifestyle I worked within was of others, I was just a worker in that environment.

As you are so business savvy how much do you charge for websites to use your Monaco photos?

VTech

nicklouse wrote:

VTech wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

On a personal level, If I were going to be unhappy, I would rather be unhappy and rich, than unhappy and poor. Im actually neither in reality.

You appear to have missed the point. Again.

As you have admitted on other threads that you have neglected your family and are missing your daughter growing up, I would question the validity of your happiness.

We are now too far off topic. This is supposed to be about Scottish independence, not a certain Mr. VTech.

I got your point fully, I sold my business in december and now live fully in the UK, am at home 7 weeks in every 8 and am much happier. I am the first to admit that going after more isn't the best. The reality is the lifestyle I worked within was of others, I was just a worker in that environment.

As you are so business savvy how much do you charge for websites to use your Monaco photos?

Ahh, now we have admin poking in to support Your referring to the fact I took a picture off the Gumball3000 site to show a monaco view. Can I ask what your point about making that comment is, what is your purpose ?
Is it to try and discredit me for having not taken the photo personally ?

ugo.santalucia

If anyone is interested in discussing Scottish independence, please do so, otherwise I'll draw curtains on this thread

sungod

scottish independence baffles me, same as english/welsh/cornish/london/bognor/skegness independence would baffle me

'independence' is the word used, but it's simply about replacing one bunch of politicians with another, if it's such a good idea why not glasgow independence from edinburgh, where does it end?

people acting together for the common good are stronger, splitting things up doesn't make things better, fixing the issues in the current system does that, but that's not in the interest of the political parties, including the snp, all parties have the same objective: gain power, everything else is secondary to that, including the common good

so the options for voting in the uk these days are simple:

high earner - vote tory, less likely to raise your taxes, but they're just so gutless
middle income - makes little difference who you vote for, what they give with one hand they'll take with the other
impotent angry daily mail reader - vote ukip, they'll pander to your moaning
low income - vote labour, more likely to take money from others and give it to you
niche issue voter - whatever floats your boat, snp? sure, but don't expect life to get any better

thegreatdivide

sungod wrote:

scottish independence baffles me, same as english/welsh/cornish/london/bognor/skegness independence would baffle me

'independence' is the word used, but it's simply about replacing one bunch of politicians with another, if it's such a good idea why not glasgow independence from edinburgh, where does it end?

people acting together for the common good are stronger, splitting things up doesn't make things better, fixing the issues in the current system does that, but that's not in the interest of the political parties, including the snp, all parties have the same objective: gain power, everything else is secondary to that, including the common good

so the options for voting in the uk these days are simple:

high earner - vote tory, less likely to raise your taxes, but they're just so gutless
middle income - makes little difference who you vote for, what they give with one hand they'll take with the other
impotent angry daily mail reader - vote ukip, they'll pander to your moaning
low income - vote labour, more likely to take money from others and give it to you
niche issue voter - whatever floats your boat, snp? sure, but don't expect life to get any better

Your last paragraph is exactly why independence is worthwhile.

crumbschief

sungod

pffft! he had such an authentic accent too

it's a niche issue because it's not going to solve anything, it'll simply increase net cost per head with no corresponding increase in productivity

the only winners will be the politicians who'll now control the feed pouring into their trough

if the vote is 'yes', cue years of the snp whining how every problem is the fault of the 'westminster government', it's been their mantra for so long, there's little chance they'll change it

nathancom

It has cultural significance that goes beyond the balance sheet. It gives Scotland the chance to renew its own distinct path for how it sets out its civil society, a possibility of a renewed cultural centre separate from London etc. Whilst the EU exists I think it makes sense for Scotland to be run separately from London.

Also I suspect many of the infrastructure issues that Scotland faces would be more properly addressed divorced from the domination of London.

No doubt you are right that the politicians would prove as venal north of the border as south but that is the cost of democracy and we are not really voting for them.

VTech

It worked perfectly for Jamaica.


Ohh, hang on !

sungod

nathancom wrote:

It has cultural significance that goes beyond the balance sheet. It gives Scotland the chance to renew its own distinct path for how it sets out its civil society, a possibility of a renewed cultural centre separate from London etc. Whilst the EU exists I think it makes sense for Scotland to be run separately from London.

Also I suspect many of the infrastructure issues that Scotland faces would be more properly addressed divorced from the domination of London.

No doubt you are right that the politicians would prove as venal north of the border as south but that is the cost of democracy and we are not really voting for them.

is that the scotland of 200 years ago? 300? 400? 500? 1000? 2000? 5000? seems like a choice is being made of what 'scotland' is to suit romantic notions, then raking up old grudges, hatreds and envy to win power for the people doing it

this nonsensical fixation on big bad london goes on and on, it's just an excuse, blame someone else for your problems, because it's convenient, the same rhetoric beloved of petty nationalist tyrants for centuries, the outcome is usually nasty

it's not the 'london' government, it's the government of the uk, voted for by the people of the uk, one person, one vote, scottish, welsh, english, irish, scousers, etc. etc. not perfect, but it's what we've got, calling it the 'london' government is a crude tool designed to stir up hatred and resentment in the dull witted and easily led

you may recall that not long ago the leader of the 'london' government was a scot, it didn't work out well, but that's democracy for you

pblakeney

sungod wrote:

it's not the 'london' government, it's the government of the uk, voted for by the people of the uk, one person, one vote, scottish, welsh, english, irish, scousers, etc. etc. not perfect, but it's what we've got, calling it the 'london' government is a crude tool designed to stir up hatred and resentment in the dull witted and easily led

Even I would have to admit that the Westminster Government is very London centric, regardless of where the votes come from. Will that only get worse without Scotland?

pinno

VTech wrote:

In principle you would have a point but my comments were bought from an abusive post made by your fellow forum member towards another. It had hatred at the heart of it and was posted with no other reason than to cause distress.

He tries to talk Weegie even though he is from Edinburgh the skanky cnut.

VTech wrote:

You can also argue as much as you like for the pros and cons of concrete jungles against planted jungles but as humans we have choices.

The choice to earn and spend money on stuff that has no inherent worth to greater society and then have pangs of occasional guilt then doing something philanthropic to redeem oneself

VTech wrote:

A pic of Monaco and especially Grand Prix which was the aim of the picture shows mans achievements

That was not your original intention of posting the Monaco pic - it was a 'you might not like me but look so there' picture.

VTech wrote:

I'm unsure if you or anyone could genuinely argue against achievements of man and rarely is this surpassed than by the motor car. Some of the worlds greatest minds will give an opinion towards the validity of vehicles and travel as one of the greets innovations of mankind, after all, this bought us together faster and to a greater level than any other invention in history.

That's somewhat condascending. I have a diploma in Engineering.

Good quote for you - "No other mechanical device in History has received more engineering attention than the internal combustion engine".
The problem is, it is archaic. Even the most fuel efficient vehicles are at best 35% efficient. Top end bicycles are 99% mechanically efficient. The calorific value of 1 gallon of petrol can fuel a cyclist for 10,000 miles.
This archaic contraption called the motor car is not conducive to moving masses of people cleanly, efficiently and cheaply. The motor car has run it's course but people still want them because we are becoming insular, it is a symbol of wealth and it is grossly unsustainable.
I cannot worship a car. I cannot shag a car:
You can shag in the back of a £500 Ford Fiesta, It will still get you to work. You can put a roof rack on it and put your bike on top. It will still get the shopping and pick up the wife/mistress.

As for other Human inventions.

Penicillin
Vaccines for Polio, Small Pox, Rubella, whooping cough...
Jet planes
Sticky toffee pudding
Cider (metaphorical entry to the list). Grow the apple trees (6 to 10 years). Prune them. Allow them to flower - attracts the bees (70% of our foodstuffs are cross polinated). Pick the apples. Press them. Ferment them. Filter them. I'd rather go to the Vale of Evesham in spring than Monaco.

@Velonutter. We reserve the right to go off topic - you can send me another love letter if you must. Will it be lines, a spanking or detention? :roll:

VTech

Your right, but what quality "shag" would you get in the back of a £500 motor ?
Probably not the same as on the bonnet of an Aventador !

Also, with wealth does come the ability to live in the places you suggest as the best. For example, the best locations in the vale of Evesham are not available to your £40k a year earner !

pinno

VTech wrote:

Your right, but what quality "shag" would you get in the back of a £500 motor ?

One that definitely hasn't had plastic surgery or is after you for your wallet.

VTech wrote:

Probably not the same as on the bonnet of an Aventador !

E gad, too public for me.

VTech wrote:

Also, with wealth does come the ability to live in the places you suggest as the best. For example, the best locations in the vale of Evesham are not available to your £40k a year earner !

I said to go visit, not live. Cycled through the Vale of Evesham many a time - for free.

nathancom

sungod wrote:

nathancom wrote:

It has cultural significance that goes beyond the balance sheet. It gives Scotland the chance to renew its own distinct path for how it sets out its civil society, a possibility of a renewed cultural centre separate from London etc. Whilst the EU exists I think it makes sense for Scotland to be run separately from London.

Also I suspect many of the infrastructure issues that Scotland faces would be more properly addressed divorced from the domination of London.

No doubt you are right that the politicians would prove as venal north of the border as south but that is the cost of democracy and we are not really voting for them.

is that the scotland of 200 years ago? 300? 400? 500? 1000? 2000? 5000? seems like a choice is being made of what 'scotland' is to suit romantic notions, then raking up old grudges, hatreds and envy to win power for the people doing it

this nonsensical fixation on big bad london goes on and on, it's just an excuse, blame someone else for your problems, because it's convenient, the same rhetoric beloved of petty nationalist tyrants for centuries, the outcome is usually nasty

it's not the 'london' government, it's the government of the uk, voted for by the people of the uk, one person, one vote, scottish, welsh, english, irish, scousers, etc. etc. not perfect, but it's what we've got, calling it the 'london' government is a crude tool designed to stir up hatred and resentment in the dull witted and easily led

you may recall that not long ago the leader of the 'london' government was a scot, it didn't work out well, but that's democracy for you

As PBlakeney says, Westminister is very London centric with the vast bulk of capital investment being put into that region. Look at the two biggest upcoming infrastructure projects - high speed rail and airport expansion, both are centred on London as this will produce the greatest ROI. Fair enough, however this is not in the long term benefit of Scotland though and despite having one man one vote, we do not run plebicites nor do we elect the civil service, therefore this slanting of policy towards the South East is not directly opposable.

The biggest benefit is the certainty of no further Tory governments for an indefinite period if we go independent.

verylonglegs

nathancom wrote:

sungod wrote:

nathancom wrote:

It has cultural significance that goes beyond the balance sheet. It gives Scotland the chance to renew its own distinct path for how it sets out its civil society, a possibility of a renewed cultural centre separate from London etc. Whilst the EU exists I think it makes sense for Scotland to be run separately from London.

Also I suspect many of the infrastructure issues that Scotland faces would be more properly addressed divorced from the domination of London.

No doubt you are right that the politicians would prove as venal north of the border as south but that is the cost of democracy and we are not really voting for them.

is that the scotland of 200 years ago? 300? 400? 500? 1000? 2000? 5000? seems like a choice is being made of what 'scotland' is to suit romantic notions, then raking up old grudges, hatreds and envy to win power for the people doing it

this nonsensical fixation on big bad london goes on and on, it's just an excuse, blame someone else for your problems, because it's convenient, the same rhetoric beloved of petty nationalist tyrants for centuries, the outcome is usually nasty

it's not the 'london' government, it's the government of the uk, voted for by the people of the uk, one person, one vote, scottish, welsh, english, irish, scousers, etc. etc. not perfect, but it's what we've got, calling it the 'london' government is a crude tool designed to stir up hatred and resentment in the dull witted and easily led

you may recall that not long ago the leader of the 'london' government was a scot, it didn't work out well, but that's democracy for you

As PBlakeney says, Westminister is very London centric with the vast bulk of capital investment being put into that region. Look at the two biggest upcoming infrastructure projects - high speed rail and airport expansion, both are centred on London as this will produce the greatest ROI. Fair enough, however this is not in the long term benefit of Scotland though and despite having one man one vote, we do not run plebicites nor do we elect the civil service, therefore this slanting of policy towards the South East is not directly opposable.

The biggest benefit is the certainty of no further Tory governments for an indefinite period if we go independent.

In one thread you argue that the Scots should seek to get away from the UK politically so that they are not ruled by those with different interests to them yet in another thread you lament the rise of UKIP and appear to take the opposite view, that isolation is a bad thing and nationalism would be detrimental to the long term future of the voters. Genuinely interested in how you see the differences in these scenarios.

VTech

pinarello001 wrote:

VTech wrote:

Your right, but what quality "shag" would you get in the back of a £500 motor ?

One that definitely hasn't had plastic surgery or is after you for your wallet.

Almost definitely but you wouldn't be marrying her would you !

VTech wrote:

Probably not the same as on the bonnet of an Aventador !

E gad, too public for me.

Depends where you live, my nearest neighbour is a good quarter mile away so there chances of viewing my todger are slim to none, I struggle at 2.5ft !

VTech wrote:

Also, with wealth does come the ability to live in the places you suggest as the best. For example, the best locations in the vale of Evesham are not available to your £40k a year earner !

I said to go visit, not live. Cycled through the Vale of Evesham many a time - for free.

Lets say a long lost relative died who had a great house there, and your job offered you a position within cycling distance from home, would you turn down living there?

pliptrot

My goodness VTech, your evaluation of the quality of a shag in/on a car is based on what car is involved? No comment on the other person? The sympathy you've expressed for others (or their families) because they diasgreed with you is, I feel rather misplaced. Take a mirror, and imagine what it would be like to see the person in it thinking about people rather than cars, and about the issues in the threads on which you spend so much time, rather than boasting about where you are and what you are doing (which must be pretty boring if you can find time to be on a cycling forum chatting with a moron or two (your word, not mine).

MattC59

pliptrot wrote:

My goodness VTech, your evaluation of the quality of a shag in/on a car is based on what car is involved? No comment on the other person? The sympathy you've expressed for others (or their families) because they diasgreed with you is, I feel rather misplaced. Take a mirror, and imagine what it would be like to see the person in it thinking about people rather than cars, and about the issues in the threads on which you spend so much time, rather than boasting about where you are and what you are doing (which must be pretty boring if you can find time to be on a cycling forum chatting with a moron or two (your word, not mine).

Would you look at that; someone else has noticed that pretty much whatever the thread topic, VTech manages to let others know that they are wrong, and change the subject to him.

:roll:

VTech

pliptrot wrote:

My goodness VTech, your evaluation of the quality of a shag in/on a car is based on what car is involved? No comment on the other person? The sympathy you've expressed for others (or their families) because they diasgreed with you is, I feel rather misplaced. Take a mirror, and imagine what it would be like to see the person in it thinking about people rather than cars, and about the issues in the threads on which you spend so much time, rather than boasting about where you are and what you are doing (which must be pretty boring if you can find time to be on a cycling forum chatting with a moron or two (your word, not mine).

The reply from me was "tongue in cheek" as you are well aware.
Having said that, do you honestly believe that in general, you will get the same reaction from owning a £3500 Rover as you would a £350,000 Lamborghini ?

Now of course, it's fickle. The car shouldn't matter but we all know on the whole it does.

If I go to a decent resteraunt in my van do you honestly think I get the same treatment as I do if I turn up in my Ferrari or Lamborghini ?
I'm not suggesting that it is fair. But it is the way it is.

pblakeney

Anyway.

Who thinks that this independence is going to come to fruition?

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

Anyway.

Who thinks that this independence is going to come to fruition?

The incredibly funny thing is, if it did, London would be so much better off.
So the people arguing for the release from London (which I do think support the capital more than other areas) are counter productive.
Where would the money come for the things the welsh, irish and english pay for scotland within our taxes ?

Stevo_666

nathancom wrote:

The biggest benefit is the certainty of no further Tory governments for an indefinite period if we go independent.

You get no Tory government in Scotland and we get one in England. Win - win situation, although it would be ironic if the likes of you deliver a Tory majority in England

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

Where would the money come for the things the welsh, irish and english pay for scotland within our taxes ?

A good question.

It takes a while on Google to find a report that at least tries to be neutral.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... alone/6524

My interpretation from reading that report is that Scotland could be better off, but they could be worse off. England would definitely be worse off.

This is scary stuff!

pblakeney

Stevo 666 wrote:

nathancom wrote:

The biggest benefit is the certainty of no further Tory governments for an indefinite period if we go independent.

You get no Tory government in Scotland and we get one in England. Win - win situation, although it would be ironic if the likes of you deliver a Tory majority in England

I am paying attention to this issue as I have relatives living in Scotland so i already know this attitude to be complete bumkin.
"Analysis shows that most general election results would have been the same, albeit with changed majorities. In recent times, Margaret Thatcher's Conservatives would have enjoyed a massive 174-seat majority in 1983, bigger even than the 144-seat majority they achieved. In 1992, Tory John Major would have had a 71-seat majority, as opposed to the 21-seat majority which occurred. And, without Scotland, Tony Blair's Labour majority would have been cut from 179 to 137 seats in 1997, from 167 to 127 seats in 2001, and from 66 to 43 seats in 2005."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27129813

Changed majorities which may lead to coalitions but not a full reversal as you predict.

sungod

VTech wrote:

The incredibly funny thing is, if it did, London would be so much better off.
So the people arguing for the release from London (which I do think support the capital more than other areas) are counter productive.
Where would the money come for the things the welsh, irish and english pay for scotland within our taxes ?

it's nice to think that lowering cost for the rest of uk is an upside, but consider the implementation...

odds on it'd be a sprawling compromise taking years to execute, with enormous transition expense involving the rest of the uk subsidising the 'independent' state to establish all the institutions it needs to operate

cynical salmond isn't going to take his hands out of the uk's pockets any time soon, that's is crystal clear from his ludicrous proposal that scotland would retain the uk's currency, that's some real independent thinking for you