Cannondale 'lifetime' warranty nonsense

balthazar

Thing is, beautifully made steel frames also fail from fatigue sometimes.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe ... e_test.htm

The difference is, no small-scale custom builder would refuse a free repair and respray, etc, if you took a frame back with such a failure. They will be embarrassed to see their name on such a failed component and will move mountains to fix it. Bike components do break - they're unpredictably stressed, and light weight is a constantly important theme: everybody sails close to the wind, the market demands it. The measure of the company is what they do when it happens.

That unpleasant, lecturing, and simply wrong email from Cannondale would have incensed me - not only are they worming out of their responsibility but they are attempting to blind you with (cod) science, the default subterfuge of the disreputable.

Either take them on legally with gusto — or take the loss, wash your hands of them totally, and deal with nicer people instead. Cannondale bikes are fine, but the service and after-sales is dreadful. It's sad to see that this stuff is so culturally embedded in companies that it lasts decades - I worked in a bike shop in the 90's and the famous disparity between Specialized (helpful, interested, trusting) and Cannondale (suspicious, devious, legalistic) was established even then. We sold a lot of Specialized.

curium

It's bad enough that they've blighted us with their bull$hit BB30 standard which is so not fit for purpose, now they're failing to honour frame warranties.

If they don't warrant against turbo-induced failure then they should state that!

Anyone know where other big manufacturers stand on turbo use with their bikes?

ratsbeyfus

Thanks for the link Balthazar, it was a really interesting read. Cannondale and aluminium frames come out well from the tests. I wonder if the tests were repeated with the more recent offerings from many of the top brands how aluminium would fare? Perhaps trying to compete with carbon has caused high end aluminium frame manufacturers to sail too close to the wind?

The point the author makes at the end of the article is interesting:

It would be desirable that top frames get their quality certified by an independent source. It is high time for a quality seal, which certifies superior products their top performance!

If the UCI are going to lower the weight limit for complete road bike, there really should be some form of independent test or standard so that consumers know that they are not going to fork out a fortune for a super lightweight frame that is only really designed to last for a 3 week stage race at most!

balthazar

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Thanks for the link Balthazar, it was a really interesting read. Cannondale and aluminium frames come out well from the tests. I wonder if the tests were repeated with the more recent offerings from many of the top brands how aluminium would fare? Perhaps trying to compete with carbon has caused high end aluminium frame manufacturers to sail too close to the wind?

Maybe, though they sell an awful lot of bikes and don't have a notably high failure rate, as far as I'm aware. I've not seen any newer tests from EFBe that are publicly available- although contrary to general thought, I don't see that much has changed in bike frame manufacture in the last few decades, apart from the spread of CFRP expertise (and therefore, its democratisation). Tons of light ali bikes last ages, despite the dark rumours.

I guess my main point is that this isn't particularly about bike frames: it's about the relationship between companies and their customers.

adamfo

curium wrote:

It's bad enough that they've blighted us with their bull$hit BB30 standard which is so not fit for purpose, now they're failing to honour frame warranties.

If they don't warrant against turbo-induced failure then they should state that!

Anyone know where other big manufacturers stand on turbo use with their bikes?

The BB30 is a bit of a non-issue. Cannondale themselves make a press sleeve in to convert it to 24mm thread Shimano. Doing so does not invalidate the frame warranty. However, they specifically state that on carbon frames it is permanent. In other words, if you bugger the frame trying to remove it you are on your own. On alloy frames they state it can be removed and refitted 3 times.
If Cannondale wanted to be as clear as this on the use of turbo trainers I expect new bikes would have to come with warning stickers. Something along the lines of ' use of turbo trainers at owners risk'

ratsbeyfus

Good news - Cannondale have been in touch and agreed to replace frame, and accepted that Turbo use is a 'grey area in the warranty. I won't paraphrase them - instead the text of their response is below. Thanks again to all those who contributed to this thread, both in support of and against my claim.

Mr Beyfus,
 
As the UK distributor for Cannondale the final decision on your warranty claim rests with us and whilst we believe that our initial diagnosis is correct and fair we can appreciate that the use of turbo trainers is something of a grey area with respect to warranty.  You obviously feel that there is a lack of clarity in the warranty literature however, as there are many different design and style of trainers on the market it would not be fair to make a blanket statement that ALL turbo trainers are potentially damaging to your bike. As a manufacturer we would advise against using a turbo trainer but ultimately that is a decision that rests with the individual user. I feel that I have been clear in the reasons for not using a trainer and I hope you can appreciate that why doing so is potentially harmful to a frame.
 
Furthermore,  usage of turbo trainers can vary greatly- the effects on a frame will be very different if you were to compare someone spinning to warm their muscles up in a seated position (as with the Cannondale Cycling Team) as opposed to someone doing an intense workout where they are potentially up out of the saddle putting large amounts of lateral stress through the frame. I would add that just because people use their trainers over time with no problems doesn’t necessarily validate the argument that this use is ‘normal’ and will not put your frame through undue stress.
 
That being said there is nothing explicitly forbidding the use of your Cannondale in a turbo, and you clearly feel that  you have done nothing untoward that has contributed to the failure of your frame, as such we would, as a gesture of goodwill, offer to replace your CAAD 9 frame with a new 2014 CAAD 10 frameset. Whilst I understand your frustration in this issue I assure you that as a brand we have no desire to disappoint our customers by declining any potential warranty claims they make and as previously stated we only base our decision on the physical evidence we receive along with historical knowledge of the product and any problems that occur on the given platform - of which the CAAD 9 has not had any.
 
I hope that by offering a replacement frame this will go some way in restoring your faith in the Cannondale brand.
 
 
Regards
 
Ed Thomas
Warranty, Technical and Customer Support

drlodge

Excellent outcome! Nice one.

gabriel959

Result! Such good news

darkhairedlord

niice!

borisface

A nice outcome but boy did you have to work for it and 'a gesture of goodwill' is rather mealy-mouthed of them. Personally, I'd accept the replacement, stick it on ebay and get something else.

Brava210

Perfect

nathancom

Result, nice one. Shame you had to effectively start a publicity claim for them to honour their warranty. I wouldn't buy from them now.

DKay

Good stuff.

I guess a turbo trainer will be appearing in the Classified section imminently.

tlw1

great result

Monty Dog

Good result - but Cannondale haven't done themselves any favours. My mate took his Specialized Tarmac to the dealer as the rear triangle is out of alignment - apparently Specialized declined the warranty as the frame mis-alignment was due to "wear and tear"! WTF - seems as all the big brands are all wriggling-out of warranty obligations.

Bar Shaker

Well done Cannondale.

mosamahab

great news getting a warranty replacement. However it shouldn't have been this big of a deal anyway.

Plus them calling it a goodwill gesture leaves a bitter after taste as if they are doing a favour.

You got your replacement, and that is all that matters.

foggymike

Well done for sticking with it, and well done Cannondale for listening and making the right decision in the end.

Yellow Peril

Really pleased for Rats. Turboing shouldn't be a grey area as aluminium frames have been used on turbos for over 20 years.

I've got a couple of aluminium Canyons. Canyon state that you shouldn't turbo out of the saddle which seems reasonable as I'm sure that some enthusiastic turboers would be exerting a lot of lateral force weakening the frame at the chain and seat stays.

That aside I think the whole turbo comment by Cannondale was a bit of an excuse which might come back to bite them in the bum now as people will think twice about purchasing one if it can't go on a turbo

BenderRodriguez

balthazar wrote:

Thing is, beautifully made steel frames also fail from fatigue sometimes. The difference is, no small-scale custom builder would refuse a free repair and respray, etc, if you took a frame back with such a failure. They will be embarrassed to see their name on such a failed component and will move mountains to fix it.

That wasn't my experience when my Brian Rourke frame snapped across the down tube after a couple of years normal use, non of which was on a turbo. I had to pay for a new tube to be put in, but what really made me determined never to buy a Rourke again was the way they bodged the repair. The frame was returned to me unpainted and It looked like, instead of taking the head tube off, they fitted the new down tube in by means of opening up the front part of the BB shell, then hammering it back down and filling the cut with brass. I can't see how the tube was properly mitred using such a repair method. I was also convinced that they had put in a lower grade tube as the frame was significantly heavier than it had been. In the end I just binned it and put it down to experience.

jordan_217

Brilliant news! If it's any consolation - I have a CAAD10 and it's bloody good frame. Just make sure you buy the FSA conversion sleeve and bin BB30

froze

ratsbeyfus said:

Hi


Just to let any potential Cannondale buyers know my experience with Cannondale's lifetime warranty.


I own a CAAD 9 (aluminium) frame which developed a crack at one of the welds at the rear brake stay after just under 4 years. The frame had never been crashed and had done about 11,000 miles, on the road and about 10 hours on a turbo (a couple of sessions a year before I remember how much I hate turbo training).


I contacted Cannondale and took it to the nearest dealer, who sent the frame off to Cannondale for assessment. The verdict from Cannondale is that the crack was caused by 'excessive use of the turbo' based upon the fact that other frames which they have received with similar cracks had been also assessed as being damaged by 'excessive use of the turbo'. As a result they will not honor the warranty, regardless of my assertion that they are wrong.


Basically, be very wary of the Cannondale 'lifetime warranty' - it is, in my experience, a sham.

Did they say in their warranty that there would no coverage for bikes used on a turbo? I could not find any reference that a turbo was excluded, either in any of their warranties, the only word they use that could be vaguely used is the word "abuse", much like the word "fatigue". Cannondale should have said outright that they exclude the use on a turbo, otherwise abuse can open all sorts of problems and they chose whatever to say that the damage was abuse, and I'm not sure if that's legal to do. However, that is how companies' warranties can weasel out of paying a claim.

On the Swift site they list bicycle companies who are ok with their bikes, and their warranty to use them on a trainer...Cannondale was one of those on the list!!

https://zwiftinsider.com/trainer-use-warranty/

webboo

As you’ve revived an 8 year old thread and the OP hasn’t posted on here for 3 years, you might struggle to get a reply.

kingstongraham

Also might be worth actually reading the thread.