Cannondale 'lifetime' warranty nonsense

ben-----

Seems to me that regulations surrounding the wording of these warranties should be tightened. Eg, whenever the the phrase lifetime warranty is used, the number of years should be stated along with it. Going from what was said earlier in this thread, for a Cannondale carbon frame: "Lifetime (3 years) warranty". Actually makes things seem worse than had it not been said/offered ("What, a Cannondale carbon frame will only last 3 years!?").

ratsbeyfus

Party Weirdo wrote:

^ The simile does it's job perfectly, highlighting the fact that many people buy Cannondale bikes and get on fine with them so basing a decision on one instance isn't really applying sensible logic.

It's a shame the OP's frame 'broke' but something made it happen if it was fine for several years before and from the description given by the OP, it doesn't sound like manufacturing failure.

As I said, if it was me I'd be peeved too, but an attempt at pseudo-bullying of the company over the internet and stirring up ill-will against the brand (sorry but 2 threads and many, many posts by the OP isn't just making a point) isn't bringing a new bike.

I've explained why there are two threads already.

I have made many posts in response to the many replies the threads have had.

I am not just 'making a point', I started the poll to use as a form of evidence that the Cannondale rep's use of the word 'abnormal' to describe using a turbo trainer would not be recognised by many other cyclists.

If I get a replacement frame out of this process, or through the small claims court, great. If Cannondale or other manufacturers take note and think carefully about how their warranties are worded that's great too. If I don't, I hope the discussion has been worth having for other cyclists.

You agree that you too would be 'peeved' in my position - what would you do in my situation?

thegibdog

A couple of points: Cannondale say that the frame would have failed before now if it was a manufacturing defect. Have you told Cannondale how many miles you've done on the bike? If not, how could they state this.

Secondly, the Cannondale warranty states that incorrect setup or using the wrong turbo trainer could damage the bike. Have they suggested that either of these could be the reason for the failure in your case? It seems that they are saying that turbo use in itself has caused the damage and they have had lots of cases of this happening with their bikes. If this us the case they should explicitly state that their bikes shouldn't be used with turbo trainers and that doing so will invalidate their warranty.

ratsbeyfus

thegibdog wrote:

A couple of points: Cannondale say that the frame would have failed before now if it was a manufacturing defect. Have you told Cannondale how many miles you've done on the bike? If not, how could they state this.

Secondly, the Cannondale warranty states that incorrect setup or using the wrong turbo trainer could damage the bike. Have they suggested that either of these could be the reason for the failure in your case? It seems that they are saying that turbo use in itself has caused the damage and they have had lots of cases of this happening with their bikes. If this us the case they should explicitly state that their bikes shouldn't be used with turbo trainers and that doing so will invalidate their warranty.

I didn't tell the Cannondale rep how many miles I've done on the bike - although I gave an estimate to assistant in Evans when I gave him the frame. I can work it out pretty much to the nearest mile though as I logged my monthly mileage before I joined Strava a few years ago. When the Cannondale rep spoke to me on Thursday he said he thought the frame was 5 and half years old, which was incorrect as I've got the receipt for the original purchase in May 2010.

They have not said that I set up a turbo trainer incorrectly. They have wrongly suggested that I have used a turbo excessively, and categorically said that the frame was damaged by use on a turbo. I asked the rep if he had ever seen damage to the same weld caused by a manufacturing defect and he said no - every crack at that join he knew of was the result of being used on a turbo. I don't know how many Cannondales get returned with cracks at that point, nor how many the rep has seen.

patrickf

ben----- wrote:

Seems to me that regulations surrounding the wording of these warranties should be tightened. Eg, whenever the the phrase lifetime warranty is used, the number of years should be stated along with it. Going from what was said earlier in this thread, for a Cannondale carbon frame: "Lifetime (3 years) warranty". Actually makes things seem worse than had it not been said/offered ("What, a Cannondale carbon frame will only last 3 years!?").

But if you state a number of years then it's no longer "lifetime", so the argument should be that they shouldn't use the word "lifetime" at all.

29black

patrickf wrote:

ben----- wrote:

Seems to me that regulations surrounding the wording of these warranties should be tightened. Eg, whenever the the phrase lifetime warranty is used, the number of years should be stated along with it. Going from what was said earlier in this thread, for a Cannondale carbon frame: "Lifetime (3 years) warranty". Actually makes things seem worse than had it not been said/offered ("What, a Cannondale carbon frame will only last 3 years!?").

But if you state a number of years then it's no longer "lifetime", so the argument should be that they shouldn't use the word "lifetime" at all.

It's all marketing, Nobody would buy it if they advertise it that way - It's not just Cannondale but it certainly shows how much they put their faith in their own product. 3 years on an expensive Carbon is hardly great and has put me off as well off purchasing them in the future.

OP, I think you certainly have a case and hopefully that comes from Cannondale's admission and not having to go through the Small claims court. I work in Customer Service and sometimes even if it isn't our fault, it's better to take a hit and leave the customer happy and ensure they come back in the future. Best of luck.

kajjal

Not a good idea to get a reputation for not honouring bike warranties. Specialized etc. charge more due to having very good reputations for their warranties amongst other things. I would just write to the CEO of Cannondale via a EMail.

ben-----

patrickf wrote:

But if you state a number of years then it's no longer "lifetime", so the argument should be that they shouldn't use the word "lifetime" at all.

Well that would be for the manufacturers to decide. If they had to quantify the word lifetime with the amount of time they've decided lifetime means, no, they probably wouldn't say "Lifetime (3 years) warranty" (unless they decide to make it a much longer time). But that's their problem. They'd probably say "3 years manufacturing defects warranty" which is exactly what it is at the moment, and becomes, when worded like that, something not worth talking about much. It'd just be a small tiny plus point for the consumer which isn't worth much.

Semantik

Presumably these Cannondale riders have to throw away their frames every few hours then?

rolf_f

Have Cannondale actually listed what the 'wrong' turbo trainers actually are? If the statement is a serious and meaningful one, rather than simply a vague catch all to enable them to void warranties, then they will have a list of what the wrong trainers are, why they are the wrong type and that list would obviously be available to the public on request.........

ratsbeyfus

The friendly man in Evans told me he asked the cannonball rep which turbos he could recommend to customers and the rep said 'none'!

rolf_f

So their official line when they talk about how to set up a turbo with a Cannondale bike is that they are giving instructions on how to misuse their product?!

I can't help thinking that any half decent solicitor would make mincemeat of Cannondale........

flasher

Rolf F wrote:

I can't help thinking that any half decent solicitor would make mincemeat of Cannondale........

You're probably right, however life's too short and the cost too high, unless you happen to be a "half decent solicitor"!

rolf_f

Flasher wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

I can't help thinking that any half decent solicitor would make mincemeat of Cannondale........

You're probably right, however life's too short and the cost too high, unless you happen to be a "half decent solicitor"!

I'm not a solicitor I'm afraid and if I was I wouldn't be a half decent one!

neeb

Haven't read all 6 pages but:

- Use of a turbo trainer is NOT abnormal use for a road bike, I can't believe anyone would have a legal case for suggesting that. Anyone who trains seriously is going to use a turbo now and again, and these bikes are marketed as racing equipment.

- The idea that a turbo puts abnormal strains on a bike frame is a myth IMHO in any case. The only difference from use on the road is that the dropouts are prevented from moving laterally, but if you are putting out 300w on the road while in the saddle the dropouts are also not moving laterally, the only difference is that the resistance comes from the road through the tyre, rim, spokes and hub rather than from the turbo via the quick release and hub.

- If Cannondale are claiming that fatigue in an aluminium frame is normal wear and tear then the lifetime warranty is meaningless. An alu frame is probably not going to last a lifetime of daily use without fatiguing. And the fact that it may have been used on the road before eventually breaking on the turbo is irrelevant - metal fatigue is a gradual cumulative process and eventual failure reflects use over the lifetime of the frame, not recent use.

- It's disingenuous of Cannondale to refuse to honour the warranty because of turbo use on several counts. Sounds like a clumsy cover for not wanting to admit that the warranty doesn't cover fatigue resulting from normal use.

ratsbeyfus

Met Sir Chris Hoy this morning, as you do! He was in Brighton promoting his bikes and rode round Preston Park track with all the local kids and the cycling hoi-poloi. Had a lovely chat with him, about this that and the other and the chat may have strayed on to cracking frames! Needless to say he has cracked a few frames in his time, but was very unimpressed to hear about my frame - especially when he saw my twiglet like thighs!

Chris Hoy & The Boy by ratsbeyfus, on Flickr

nathancom

Have you highlighted this thread and the bad publicity to them? If you make enough noise they may finally just give in. Have you contacted Cannondale USA yet?

ratsbeyfus

Contacted Cannondale USA through twitter. Have also faxed Ban Ki Moon, and there's going to be an emergency session of the UN Security Council this afternoon to discuss the matter. Pro-peleton are also planning a go slow up the Stelvio today in the Giro as a sign of support.

Mccaria

Expect the Cannondale riders to attack off the front.

tmg

If I were a cannondale rider and I have read this thread I wouldn't want to stress my frame too much, think it best they get off and push their bikes up any incline above 1%

DKay

tmg wrote:

If I were a cannondale rider and I have read this thread I wouldn't want to stress my frame too much, think it best they get off and push their bikes up any incline above 1%

Sagan would be ok though, as his frames are custom made.

tmg

Am sure cannondale would still invalidate his warrenty for improper use, like pulling wheelies or just riding the thing too fast by putting too much power down

darkhairedlord

Mccaria wrote:

Expect the Cannondale riders to crack off the front.

FTFY

ratsbeyfus

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Contacted Cannondale USA through twitter. Have also faxed Ban Ki Moon, and there's going to be an emergency session of the UN Security Council this afternoon to discuss the matter. Pro-peleton are also planning a go slow up the Stelvio today in the Giro as a sign of support.

OK, so it was the descent... I almost called it correctly though!

gabriel959

have you heard from cannondale again?

ratsbeyfus

No, nothing since I got a tweet on Saturday saying they were looking into it. Missed a race last night, as I don't have the confidence in my brakes on my cross bike to ride a crit. Frustrating as it's been almost 4 weeks now since I first identified the crack.

gabriel959

ratsbeyfus wrote:

No, nothing since I got a tweet on Saturday saying they were looking into it. Missed a race last night, as I don't have the confidence in my brakes on my cross bike to ride a crit. Frustrating as it's been almost 4 weeks now since I first identified the crack.

Shame, I got in touch with them on FB and they replied saying that they were looking into it and were aware of the thread. Lets hope something good comes out of this.

ratsbeyfus

gabriel959 wrote:

ratsbeyfus wrote:

No, nothing since I got a tweet on Saturday saying they were looking into it. Missed a race last night, as I don't have the confidence in my brakes on my cross bike to ride a crit. Frustrating as it's been almost 4 weeks now since I first identified the crack.

Shame, I got in touch with them on FB and they replied saying that they were looking into it and were aware of the thread. Lets hope something good comes out of this.

That's really kind of you - really appreciate it. I've been so impressed with the kindness of strangers over the last week, doing things like this. I've had a Bike Radar forumite solicitor offering to help for free, and two people giving me intros to two different and well-known frame builders as well. Thank you.

on-yer-bike

If they say that some of their products are built for lite weight at the expense of durability what does that say about the super light Evo?
Cervelos have lifetime warranties would they have changed it?
Does this mean that we should stop using turbos unless with an old worthless bike?
How do Felt think our bikes are repaired if not with a workstand?
Is all this cycling gear just getting too light at the expense of strength?

ratsbeyfus

Perhaps frames should be viewed the same way as wheels. Off the shelf expensive ones look nice, look and go fast but fail easily and are essentially disposable. If you want a frame to last and be repairable buy handmade in steel and accept it'll weigh more...