NFTO

Pross

EightOhEight wrote:

Jedi Si wrote:

Wow, its ruthless in 'ere aint it! Get the knives out!

Think of this for a moment...
You have a dream, and then find yourself able to make that dream come true...what would you do???
Probably make that dream become a reality I would suggest.

Please come and ask, when you see any of the riders, how it feels to be in the club. In fact why not ask John yourself, he doesn't bite!
Theres a buzz, an excitement, a motivation that provides pride to wear the club kit.
Someone will always find the negatives and remember them. Its human nature to not remember the positives. What about all those sponsored riders, both Junior girls, boys and Pro level...giving them a chance like no other offered to them to shine themselves in the cycling world.

NFTO Race Club - Non Pro level with a racing heart beat.
NFTO Pro Cycling - Early days of a Pro team...

Hell, why not come join the club - https://www.facebook.com/nftorace

To finish a certain race in Paris...now thats some dream!

So no denial that your backed by Soldier J's blood money then? Think of this for a moment...no matter how much of his filthy money is invested in cycling it won't change the fact it's from the arms trade and the killing of, often innocent, people.
Shame on you.
808

Are you really naive enough to believe if one legitimate and government sanctioned business wasn't supplying military equipment no-one else would step into the void? Besides, as far as I'm aware Level Peaks supplies military clothing and equipment rather than weapons and ammunition. Must be nice on your little idyllic planet :roll:

mfin

Pross wrote:

EightOhEight wrote:

Jedi Si wrote:

Wow, its ruthless in 'ere aint it! Get the knives out!

Think of this for a moment...
You have a dream, and then find yourself able to make that dream come true...what would you do???
Probably make that dream become a reality I would suggest.

Please come and ask, when you see any of the riders, how it feels to be in the club. In fact why not ask John yourself, he doesn't bite!
Theres a buzz, an excitement, a motivation that provides pride to wear the club kit.
Someone will always find the negatives and remember them. Its human nature to not remember the positives. What about all those sponsored riders, both Junior girls, boys and Pro level...giving them a chance like no other offered to them to shine themselves in the cycling world.

NFTO Race Club - Non Pro level with a racing heart beat.
NFTO Pro Cycling - Early days of a Pro team...

Hell, why not come join the club - https://www.facebook.com/nftorace

To finish a certain race in Paris...now thats some dream!

So no denial that your backed by Soldier J's blood money then? Think of this for a moment...no matter how much of his filthy money is invested in cycling it won't change the fact it's from the arms trade and the killing of, often innocent, people.
Shame on you.
808

Are you really naive enough to believe if one legitimate and government sanctioned business wasn't supplying military equipment no-one else would step into the void? Besides, as far as I'm aware Level Peaks supplies military clothing and equipment rather than weapons and ammunition. Must be nice on your little idyllic planet :roll:

But, we know how some people are sensitive to Murdoch/Sky or Amgen and the TOC not sitting well with them, so it's not hard to imagine how a cycling team funded by a military supplier rich on some uk distribution rights could be a difficult thing for some people to swallow, when it's all of us that pay for what is purchased from them.

Here's a couple of the NFTO trademark registrations where you will instantly recognise the logos and scroll down to see they are owned by Level Peaks http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002604104 http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002614501.

Pross

mfin wrote:

Pross wrote:

EightOhEight wrote:

Jedi Si wrote:

Wow, its ruthless in 'ere aint it! Get the knives out!

Think of this for a moment...
You have a dream, and then find yourself able to make that dream come true...what would you do???
Probably make that dream become a reality I would suggest.

Please come and ask, when you see any of the riders, how it feels to be in the club. In fact why not ask John yourself, he doesn't bite!
Theres a buzz, an excitement, a motivation that provides pride to wear the club kit.
Someone will always find the negatives and remember them. Its human nature to not remember the positives. What about all those sponsored riders, both Junior girls, boys and Pro level...giving them a chance like no other offered to them to shine themselves in the cycling world.

NFTO Race Club - Non Pro level with a racing heart beat.
NFTO Pro Cycling - Early days of a Pro team...

Hell, why not come join the club - https://www.facebook.com/nftorace

To finish a certain race in Paris...now thats some dream!

So no denial that your backed by Soldier J's blood money then? Think of this for a moment...no matter how much of his filthy money is invested in cycling it won't change the fact it's from the arms trade and the killing of, often innocent, people.
Shame on you.
808

Are you really naive enough to believe if one legitimate and government sanctioned business wasn't supplying military equipment no-one else would step into the void? Besides, as far as I'm aware Level Peaks supplies military clothing and equipment rather than weapons and ammunition. Must be nice on your little idyllic planet :roll:

But, we know how some people are sensitive to Murdoch/Sky or Amgen and the TOC not sitting well with them, so it's not hard to imagine how a cycling team funded by a military supplier rich on some uk distribution rights could be a difficult thing for some people to swallow, when it's all of us that pay for what is purchased from them.

Here's a couple of the NFTO trademark registrations where you will instantly recognise the logos and scroll down to see they are owned by Level Peaks http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002604104 http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002614501.

Yep, we wouldn't have many sponsors in the sport if they had to pass through a social media ethics committee. We'd lose Tinkoff, Katusha, Astana, Sky, FDJ, Lotto, possibly Cofidis etc. etc.

Imagine if a company such as BAe, EADS or Rolls Royce, Lockheed, Boeing etc. etc. who actually design and build armaments were to sponsor a team. There'd be riots in the streets and fans would stop watching the sport. Except they wouldn't as I don't think the negativity is about ethics - I suspect with many of those companies people would be please to see a major corporation getting involved. That is just something that provides a legitimate stick to beat the team with when I believe the reality is there are lots of people out there who don't like someone rich openly splashing the cash. The only other sponsor I can recall getting so much negativity is Sky and that was much the same, the new boys in town with a blank chequebook putting people's noses out of joint.

PuttyKnees

Pross wrote:

Yep, we wouldn't have many sponsors in the sport if they had to pass through a social media ethics committee. We'd lose Tinkoff, Katusha, Astana, Sky, FDJ, Lotto, possibly Cofidis etc. etc.

Imagine if a company such as BAe, EADS or Rolls Royce, Lockheed, Boeing etc. etc. who actually design and build armaments were to sponsor a team. There'd be riots in the streets and fans would stop watching the sport. Except they wouldn't as I don't think the negativity is about ethics - I suspect with many of those companies people would be please to see a major corporation getting involved. That is just something that provides a legitimate stick to beat the team with when I believe the reality is there are lots of people out there who don't like someone rich openly splashing the cash. The only other sponsor I can recall getting so much negativity is Sky and that was much the same, the new boys in town with a blank chequebook putting people's noses out of joint.

Surely there should be some ethical standards though Pross? Maybe for you this doesn't cross those lines, but you seem to suggest that there ought not to be any standards at all, since "someone else will fill their place".

mfin

Pross wrote:

Yep, we wouldn't have many sponsors in the sport if they had to pass through a social media ethics committee. We'd lose Tinkoff, Katusha, Astana, Sky, FDJ, Lotto, possibly Cofidis etc. etc.

Imagine if a company such as BAe, EADS or Rolls Royce, Lockheed, Boeing etc. etc. who actually design and build armaments were to sponsor a team. There'd be riots in the streets and fans would stop watching the sport. Except they wouldn't as I don't think the negativity is about ethics - I suspect with many of those companies people would be please to see a major corporation getting involved. That is just something that provides a legitimate stick to beat the team with when I believe the reality is there are lots of people out there who don't like someone rich openly splashing the cash. The only other sponsor I can recall getting so much negativity is Sky and that was much the same, the new boys in town with a blank chequebook putting people's noses out of joint.

Fair point, but I don't think this is portrayed anywhere near as transparently (for want of a better word) as the examples you mentioned. Anyway, it's up to the individual to think how it sits with them, and a lot of people simply don't care either. It is interesting though.

You said "I believe the reality is there are lots of people out there who don't like someone rich openly splashing the cash", perhaps there are people who are bothered by that too. I dunno, I suppose this is a Sky/Chelsea/Man City type dubiousness if people have it, but every team has to start somewhere of course.

Anyway, there were two things really here, one is the funding and the other with how in some examples early doors some of them apparently acted with regards etqiuette or rudeness. That said, I don't think anyone has cited a recent example of this at all have they(?) so it's fair to assume these things were just things that have happened in the past when they were lower profile, when starting out I suppose. I know they've got some talented riders and of course the great bulk of them are bound to be nice guys!

(Oh, by the way, did the bus ever find it's way onto Holme Moss? It was ludicrously busy up there )

Pross

PuttyKnees wrote:

Pross wrote:

Yep, we wouldn't have many sponsors in the sport if they had to pass through a social media ethics committee. We'd lose Tinkoff, Katusha, Astana, Sky, FDJ, Lotto, possibly Cofidis etc. etc.

Imagine if a company such as BAe, EADS or Rolls Royce, Lockheed, Boeing etc. etc. who actually design and build armaments were to sponsor a team. There'd be riots in the streets and fans would stop watching the sport. Except they wouldn't as I don't think the negativity is about ethics - I suspect with many of those companies people would be please to see a major corporation getting involved. That is just something that provides a legitimate stick to beat the team with when I believe the reality is there are lots of people out there who don't like someone rich openly splashing the cash. The only other sponsor I can recall getting so much negativity is Sky and that was much the same, the new boys in town with a blank chequebook putting people's noses out of joint.

Surely there should be some ethical standards though Pross? Maybe for you this doesn't cross those lines, but you seem to suggest that there ought not to be any standards at all, since "someone else will fill their place".

Of course there should be standards, I'm just not convinced that someone who sells military equipment (and not necessarily weapons - from what I can tell they are mainly clothing and accessories) legally and under government licence to approved recipients such as our own army - should be singled out. I've never seen criticism of Cardiff Blues, for example, being sponsored by EADS (Airbus Group) and how many people know that one of the Commonwealth Games sponsors is a wholly owned subsidiary or the world's third largest arms manufacturer.

cal_stewart

Wow, ethical standards don't really sit well in the real world. I love it when people go on about free speech, human rights etc. The only reason they have the ability to enjoy the above is because horrible men do horrible things to other horrible men to protect this right.

As for level peaks at least they import to good stuff, before them you needed to go direct to the US and import which was a pain and sometimes the item was unable to be exported.

As for this thread I don't think anyone was hating, I for one wondered where the money came from with NFTO and with the Level Peaks tie in it all makes sense.

Now can they Rebrand to Level Peaks and ride in Multicam.

Paulie W

Cal_Stewart wrote:

Wow, ethical standards don't really sit well in the real world. I love it when people go on about free speech, human rights etc. The only reason they have the ability to enjoy the above is because horrible men do horrible things to other horrible men to protect this right.

As for level peaks at least they import to good stuff, before them you needed to go direct to the US and import which was a pain and sometimes the item was unable to be exported.

As for this thread I don't think anyone was hating, I for one wondered where the money came from with NFTO and with the Level Peaks tie in it all makes sense.

Now can they Rebrand to Level Peaks and ride in Multicam.

People just cant handle the truth!

PuttyKnees

Pross wrote:

Of course there should be standards, I'm just not convinced that someone who sells military equipment (and not necessarily weapons - from what I can tell they are mainly clothing and accessories) legally and under government licence to approved recipients such as our own army - should be singled out. I've never seen criticism of Cardiff Blues, for example, being sponsored by EADS (Airbus Group) and how many people know that one of the Commonwealth Games sponsors is a wholly owned subsidiary or the world's third largest arms manufacturer.

I don't know about Cardiff Blues, but I know that there has been lots of debate about where money comes from to fund/buy football clubs. There was a long push to get rid of fags and drinks advertising in sport. So I think that generally there is sometimes disquiet when it comes to sponsorship, but I agree it's not fair to single out one successful sponsor.

I've seen that ntfo help youth/junior riders, but those riders are those that would get support anyway, either from BC or from already existing teams. It's not clear to me at all how sponsorship really helps the development of youth riders, when much of the real work is done by those in clubs such as your own. This point applies not just to ntfo, who I really don't know much about at all, but I do generally wonder whether "trade teams" and sponsorship in youth sport is a good thing.

RichN95.

All the top sponsors are evil. Just look at the Tour teams

Tinkoff, Cofidis, AG2R - money lenders
FdJ, Lotto - gambling
Katusha, Astana, Europcar, Orica, Lampre - pollution and mining
Giant, Trek, Cannondale, BMC - forcing independent bike makers out of business
Belkin, Movistar - porn portals
Omega Pharma - drugs
Garmin - making stupid people drive off cliffs
Sky - don't let us watch football for free
NetApp - sold stuff to Syria
Bretegne Seche - poo collection. Seems OK, but where does the poo go?

Paul 8v

RichN95 wrote:

All the top sponsors are evil. Just look at the Tour teams
Garmin - making stupid people drive off cliffs

Haha, my favorite one on the list!

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

Bretegne Seche - poo collection. Seems OK, but where does the poo go?

Cofidis?

The_Boy

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Bretegne Seche - poo collection. Seems OK, but where does the poo go?

Cofidis?

Shame this is too late for Post of the Tour.

ben@31

Cal_Stewart wrote:

Wow, ethical standards don't really sit well in the real world. I love it when people go on about free speech, human rights etc. The only reason they have the ability to enjoy the above is because horrible men do horrible things to other horrible men to protect this right.

I'm very appreciative of that and I am supportive of our troops. However my only problem is who is this industry supplying ? Mercenaries? Contractors ? Regime changers? The other side ?

When I think about it, it's a f***ed up world. Do I accept this bad stuff as "the way it is"?

cal_stewart

Well its been like this since the dawn of time its called human nature

ben@31

Cal_Stewart wrote:

Well its been like this since the dawn of time its called human nature

True.

I know it's always gone on and big money is made from it. The Rothschild bank profited from funding both sides during the Napoleonic Wars. Then governments have supplied arms to all sorts of people... France selling the Argies Exocet missiles that were used against us in the Falklands, we supplying Iran, Iraq and some guy called Bin Laden in the 80's.

But does it make it right?

Maybe it's one of those that I know is morally wrong but accept happens.

I'm not hating NFTO. I'm indifferent. Just saying there's two sides to every story and there's more to them than bring nice to kids cycling in Wales.

FocusZing

sportvan wrote:

Anyone know how this team is being supported as they appear to have some good kit (Bus, vans and cars) and paying both the riders and support crew top wages.

I've had a look at NFTO and the companies owned by the owner on companycheck.co.uk but none seem to have the turnover to support such an expensive team.

Pretty good to get a competitive team setup this quick. I guess he's no blithering idiot.

Pross

PuttyKnees wrote:

Pross wrote:

I've seen that ntfo help youth/junior riders, but those riders are those that would get support anyway, either from BC or from already existing teams. It's not clear to me at all how sponsorship really helps the development of youth riders, when much of the real work is done by those in clubs such as your own. This point applies not just to ntfo, who I really don't know much about at all, but I do generally wonder whether "trade teams" and sponsorship in youth sport is a good thing.

I actually agree with you to an extent when it comes to trade teams. However, the junior team he supports was set up by others I believe and NFTO just provide sponsorship and equipment. The support might potentially make the difference between a young rider being able to continue in the sport or give up for financial reasons. More importantly to me is the sponsorship of the Junior Tour Of Wales which has helped ensure its future and a look at the past podium list for that race shows how important it is. One of the rare chances for British juniors to race a stage race and take on some serious international competition.

jimmythecuckoo

Can't argue with them yesterday. Really classy tactical performance by them.

tom3

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

Can't argue with them yesterday. Really classy tactical performance by them.

Would Sean Yates have been in the car?

tailwindhome

^Brian Holm's tweet suggests so

This mastermind of cycling @TrainSharpSean smoked all big teams in @RideLondon today

oldwelshman

Zososimo wrote:

Pross wrote:

mfin wrote:

I think it was bad if it happened in particular cos the girl was described as young. There was a lot of detail there to be fair.

There was but it didn't make a lot of sense, it sounded like the poster got shouted at but the girl ended up in tears. I'm not sure why it got deleted or by whom though.

Here you go, I took it down because I didn't want to get any hassle that's all, I do see them around... I did not get shouted at, I was not on the blue line, as I described, I was lapping faster than them and was riding a different part of the track.

It is an accurate account, they showed no class whatsoever and didn't even realise what they were doing.










The Perfect Gentleman??

I saw him make a (VERY talented) 14 year old girl cry her eyes out down at the track..

It was a drop in session where any accredited rider can pay their money and ride. They were somewhat dominating the session as if it was their booking, however, I just carried on doing my thing on the black line just banging in 20 min blocks of 18-19 second laps. They were doing through and off on the blue line at about 22-23s a lap.

There were 2 girls from another area who were training for an upcoming junior championship. Their coach had asked me if they could ride around the blue line and drop in behind me when I lapped them so they could hang onto my wheel (as long as they could, then back up to the blue until I came around again) so I was like their derny. This was agreed and endorsed by the session coach at the velodrome.

This exercise had been working seamlessly for about 10 minutes, until, as I was just about to lap the NFTO team (me on black them on blue line), they were coming up behind one of the girls. He (boss man) shouted very aggressively and loudly 'GET OUT THE F'KING WAY'. It made her jump out of her skin, and in a panic (thinking danger was behind) she cut down the track almost crashing. It was completely, completely her right of way and she was extremely upset and frightened of him, he didn't even realise what he had done or that she was upset. It took her coach and I ages to reassure her that it wasn't anything she'd done. Again, drop in session, her right of way.

I worry that some talented and friendly young riders are being set a very bad example by being in the team.

18/19s laps for 20 mins? lol you should go for the hour record thats some going.
Who were the NTFO riders ? The ones I know are all ok, were these juniors?
Interested to know who the drop in coach was also ? Did anyone report him for swearing ?

Zososimo

oldwelshman wrote:

18/19s laps for 20 mins? lol you should go for the hour record thats some going.
Who were the NTFO riders ? The ones I know are all ok, were these juniors?
Interested to know who the drop in coach was also ? Did anyone report him for swearing ?

Yeah did seriously consider the masters hour before my contact at work went to 48hrs a week (construction work) making any training at all virtually impossible

At that time I was doing 19s in 10s all the time, and had done 48 minute 25 a bit before (and many 49s).

No they weren't juniors, not sure of their names but they were in the amateur team, it was before the pro team started.

Although I was on the black and them on the blue (contributing to my lapping them), I was actually travelling faster as well yes.

The young girl was insistent that I didn't take it further, she didn't want to have any contact with him even if it was an apology from him.

I did talk to the coach and he shook his head in disbelief. He may have said something after the session, I don't know.

The rest of the guys seemed nice enough.