Wheel upgrade from shimano r500

philsalliss
philsalliss Posts: 175
edited May 2014 in Road buying advice
Please can someone advise me on a good upgrade from snimano r500 wheels. They need to be 10 speed compatible and looking at spending uptp £300 unless i can find the recommneded wheel in classifieds or on ebay. Thanks.
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Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Are your hubs still good?
    If so, replace the dodgy chromed spokes with some light stainless ones and pair them with some nice, light and wide rims like H plus Son Archetype or Velocity A 23... total cost including labor should come around 200 quid... spend the rest in some performing tyres, maybe tubeless...
    left the forum March 2023
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    As the man says, and even if your hubs are no good, a set of Shimano 105 hubs won't break the bank.

    2-1.8-2mm d/b spokes (Sapim race or equivalent) x28 for Joe Average, Archetype rims and away you go. About £300. I wouldn't go tubeless for a road bike, for nice tyres try Conti GP4000S or Michelin Pro4 Service Course.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Yeah, but the R 500 are already 20/24 drilled, which make them ideal for a light build "upgrade"... not easy to find Shimano hubs with such hole count... one could even think to upgrade the bearings, but that becomes more of an A-team job... hence one I like.

    I would definitively go tubeless, for a real "upgrade"
    left the forum March 2023
  • SFT
    SFT Posts: 156
    keep an eye out on Planet X for these as I got them for £299...
    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPSHOEMRS8 ... n-wheelset
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    I pity the fool who buys factory wheels :lol:

    20/24 with archetypes would be a great set of wheels.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Ok thanks was looking at factory wheels as didnt have a clue you do them the way suggested. Hubs are in good condition so will have to look into that option

    How many spokes would i need?
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Ok thanks was looking at factory wheels as didnt have a clue you do them the way suggested. Hubs are in good condition so will have to look into that option

    How many spokes would i need?

    The same number as you currently have :D presumably 20 front and 24 rear? But you will also need someone to build the wheels for you (and perhaps supply the rims), all builders I know of charge a set amount for build + spokes. And a good builder I know of can supply the Archetype rims too. Not sure about shipping, where are you located?
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • djhermer
    djhermer Posts: 328
    drlodge wrote:
    . I wouldn't go tubeless for a road bike, for nice tyres try Conti GP4000S or Michelin Pro4 Service Course.

    Really? Are you sure? Based on what exactly? The single best thing i've changed to my riding in a long time.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    djhermer wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    . I wouldn't go tubeless for a road bike, for nice tyres try Conti GP4000S or Michelin Pro4 Service Course.

    Really? Are you sure? Based on what exactly? The single best thing i've changed to my riding in a long time.

    Oh I'm quite sure thank you. Availability of tubeless road tyres is the main factor at the moment, I assume with the higher pressures of road tyres compared to XC or MTB, sealing at the rim is the main issue. I'd rather stick with my Michelin Pro4 SC tyres and Conti supersonic tubes untill road tubeless matures.

    I'm don't think my rims take tubeless anyway.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    drlodge wrote:
    I pity the fool who buys factory wheels :lol:

    20/24 with archetypes would be a great set of wheels.

    I like the look of these archetype rims, presuming they are the H plus rims? Could they be built into a durable lightweight wheels for sub £270? (The price of Zondas)
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • djhermer
    djhermer Posts: 328
    drlodge wrote:
    djhermer wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    . I wouldn't go tubeless for a road bike, for nice tyres try Conti GP4000S or Michelin Pro4 Service Course.

    Really? Are you sure? Based on what exactly? The single best thing i've changed to my riding in a long time.

    Oh I'm quite sure thank you. Availability of tubeless road tyres is the main factor at the moment, I assume with the higher pressures of road tyres compared to XC or MTB, sealing at the rim is the main issue. I'd rather stick with my Michelin Pro4 SC tyres and Conti supersonic tubes untill road tubeless matures.

    I'm don't think my rims take tubeless anyway.

    I don't believe availability is the problem. When I bought mine i had no trouble finding stock. Choice maybe, in the sense that one isn't swamped with choice. Which is good in one sense - it stops there being another shed load of 'Which tubeless tyres?' and 'recommend me a tubeless tyre' threads too. It will come, when the luddites realise what they're missing.... :D
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Miles253 wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    I pity the fool who buys factory wheels :lol:

    20/24 with archetypes would be a great set of wheels.

    I like the look of these archetype rims, presuming they are the H plus rims? Could they be built into a durable lightweight wheels for sub £270? (The price of Zondas)

    Yes, they're the H Plus Son rims. Rims are £50 or £55 each I think (Brick Lane Cycles), build with spokes would be £85-£90, so that's £200 max with your existing hubs. Add £15 or so for postage and you're still well under £270.

    For a factory wheel, I think the Zondas are as good value as they get.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    drlodge wrote:
    Ok thanks was looking at factory wheels as didnt have a clue you do them the way suggested. Hubs are in good condition so will have to look into that option

    How many spokes would i need?



    The same number as you currently have :D presumably 20 front and 24 rear? But you will also need someone to build the wheels for you (and perhaps supply the rims), all builders I know of charge a set amount for build + spokes. And a good builder I know of can supply the Archetype rims too. Not sure about shipping, where are you located?

    Thanks mate based in lancaster in north west. Are there any factory built wheels youd recommned if i go that route instead
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Campag Zondas.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    drlodge wrote:
    Campag Zondas.


    Thanks for the pm. Just read something about zonda and rider weight, im 15 stone would the wheels be ok for my weight and some of the roads i cycling on are a bit bumpy how would the ride quality compare to my existing wheels
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    At 15 stone you probably need 32 spokes, which means your existing hubs are no good (how many spokes do they have?). Hence a set of handbuilts would be in order.

    The Zondas might work out fine, but I suspect their lifespan will not be so long.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Not a clue to be honest. Handbuilts sound like a good plan with better hubs. Sounds like my wheels are quite heavy from what ive read and are very much bottom of the range wheels so im guessing handbuilts would be big improvement and a lotlighter
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    at 15st wheel weight is (largely) irrelevant.
  • furiousd
    furiousd Posts: 214
    I have 105 hubs on H+Sons rims and i am 15st. They work well on my Bianchi but not so great on my Cervelo.
    Hey ho.
    D
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Sent emails to a few places on got these specs, what do you think?


    We can build the Archetype rims in black, polish silver or anodised dark grey, all prices are for a pair with rim tape fitted, VAT and UK Fed Ex shipping included.

    Front Shimano Ultegra FH-6800 Front (QRs inc)/H Plus Son Archetype/Sapim CX Ray Silver or Black Spokes/Brass Nipples (black or silver nickel plated)

    Rear Shimano Ultegra FH-6800 Rear 11 spd rdy (QRs inc)/H Plus Son Archetype/Sapim CX Ray Silver or Black Spokes/Brass Nipples (black or silver nickel plated)

    Weight 1805.08g

    Front and Rear Spoke Count Front: 32 Rear: 32

    Extras included: rim tape / true for life warranty

    Total cost with TNT delivery is £465.70 inclusive of VAT.

    Or with lighter Dura Ace hubs, both sets are durable and easy to service.

    Front Shimano Dura-Ace HB-9000 Front (QRs inc)/H Plus Son Archetype/Sapim CX Ray Silver or Black Spokes/Brass Nipples (black or silver nickel plated)

    Rear Shimano Dura-Ace HB-9000 Rear (QRs inc)/H Plus Son Archetype/Sapim CX Ray Silver or Black Spokes/Brass Nipples (black or silver nickel plated)

    Weight 1685.08g

    Front and Rear Spoke Count Front: 32 Rear: 32

    Extras included: as above

    Total cost with TNT delivery is £635.70 inclusive of VAT

    Or

    Front Road Wheel : DT Swiss 350 28h Black/White : Mavic CXP22S 28h Black : Sapim Double Butted Race Silver (for 28 spoke wheel) : 3 Cross Lacing : No Extras Required : No Extras Required : No Extras Required : No Extras Required : No Extras Required

    Price of Parts: £93.97
    Build Charge: £12.49


    Total for this Configuration: £106.46
    Rear Wheel Cost
    Rear Road Wheel : DT Swiss 350 (Hugi system) 32h Shimano black/white : Mavic CXP22S 32h Black : Sapim Double Butted Race Silver (for 32 spoke wheel) : 3 Cross Lacing : No Extras Required : No Extras Required : No Extras Required : No Extras Required : No Extras Required

    Price of Parts: £185.97
    Build Charge: £12.49
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Also been specced this

    DT350s, Sapim Race silver spokes and Stan's Alpha 340 rims comes to £416.41 and weighs circa 1640g, excluding rim tape (748g front/891g rear). The price includes 2 layers of stans yellow rim tape as you will need this whether running tubeless or not. The added advantage is that this spec allows you to go tubeless in the future.

    If you would like Sapim Race black spokes you will need to add £20 to the build cost.

    Please could someone take a look at these specs snd give me am honest informed opinion as it's all new to me. Thanks
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Also been specced this

    DT350s, Sapim Race silver spokes and Stan's Alpha 340 rims comes to £416.41 and weighs circa 1640g, excluding rim tape (748g front/891g rear). The price includes 2 layers of stans yellow rim tape as you will need this whether running tubeless or not. The added advantage is that this spec allows you to go tubeless in the future.

    If you would like Sapim Race black spokes you will need to add £20 to the build cost.

    Please could someone take a look at these specs snd give me am honest informed opinion as it's all new to me. Thanks

    Looks OK to me, assuming 32H. Stick with the silver spokes...not dissimilar to these http://road.cc/content/review/95902-sta ... 340-wheels

    I know nothing about DT Swiss hubs though, or Stan's rims for that matter!
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    Velocity A23 rims (there were major stock issues with H+ when I had mine built), Miche hubs and Sapim Race spokes. Sub £300, great ride.
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Spokes are often discussed. Personally, I would not be buying CX-Ray as the 'advantages' for the average rider are pretty much non-existent and yet the cost is prohibitive. Lot's of other options.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    Also been specced this

    DT350s, Sapim Race silver spokes and Stan's Alpha 340 rims comes to £416.41 and weighs circa 1640g, excluding rim tape (748g front/891g rear). The price includes 2 layers of stans yellow rim tape as you will need this whether running tubeless or not. The added advantage is that this spec allows you to go tubeless in the future.

    If you would like Sapim Race black spokes you will need to add £20 to the build cost.

    Please could someone take a look at these specs snd give me am honest informed opinion as it's all new to me. Thanks

    If I understand correctly, you are on the large side and the Stans 340 are really not the rims for you... at all!
    Archetype would be a good rim for you and so many others. You don't need expensive spokes like the CX ray. Archetype go tubeless and so do Velocity A 23, another good candidate.
    For you I'd say Ultegra hubs, Archetype rims, Sapim Race rear and Laser front... a nice solid and nippy set of wheels with no drawbacks... you should be able to get them for just over 300 pounds
    left the forum March 2023
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Thanks mate. Is there a reason why the stans arent suitable?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,301
    I have the Stans as 32 holes, but I weigh 11 stones and they're not the stiffest rims I've had... you would be a lot better off with some Archetype or A23... just a better ride for a heavier rider... or even Velocity Chukker, why not...
    left the forum March 2023
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    If I understand correctly, you are on the large side and the Stans 340 are really not the rims for you... at all!
    Archetype would be a good rim for you and so many others. You don't need expensive spokes like the CX ray. Archetype go tubeless and so do Velocity A 23, another good candidate.
    For you I'd say Ultegra hubs, Archetype rims, Sapim Race rear and Laser front... a nice solid and nippy set of wheels with no drawbacks... you should be able to get them for just over 300 pounds

    'nuff said, the man knows his onions.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Sounds like its going to be a halo son build then. Have to wait till payday though i think
  • philsalliss
    philsalliss Posts: 175
    Also been specced this

    DT350s, Sapim Race silver spokes and Stan's Alpha 340 rims comes to £416.41 and weighs circa 1640g, excluding rim tape (748g front/891g rear). The price includes 2 layers of stans yellow rim tape as you will need this whether running tubeless or not. The added advantage is that this spec allows you to go tubeless in the future.

    If you would like Sapim Race black spokes you will need to add £20 to the build cost.

    Please could someone take a look at these specs snd give me am honest informed opinion as it's all new to me. Thanks

    If I understand correctly, you are on the large side and the Stans 340 are really not the rims for you... at all!
    Archetype would be a good rim for you and so many others. You don't need expensive spokes like the CX ray. Archetype go tubeless and so do Velocity A 23, another good candidate.
    For you I'd say Ultegra hubs, Archetype rims, Sapim Race rear and Laser front... a nice solid and nippy set of wheels with no drawbacks... you should be able to get them for just over 300 pounds

    Where could i get them for sub 300 as all quotes ive had are around 420? Also what tyres would you suggest