Shimano 105 brake callipers or alternative?
small_bloke
Posts: 222
The budget brakes on my budget £700 bike are rubbish. 9 speed Sora levers but the brake callipers look like some rubbish brand alloy make.
Wish to replace them with 105 callipers and pads as I know they work well on my others bikes.
Or are there alternatives which I should be considering? Budget around £50. Ribble are doing 105 callipers for £45. Merlin at £50 in black
http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105 ... 49205.html
Wish to replace them with 105 callipers and pads as I know they work well on my others bikes.
Or are there alternatives which I should be considering? Budget around £50. Ribble are doing 105 callipers for £45. Merlin at £50 in black
http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105 ... 49205.html
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Comments
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Tried to send you a pm but failed:
I've got a pair of black 5700 calipers that I fitted and cycled round the block with before realizing I needed another 2mm - i.e. long reach.
They came with three bolt lenghths for the front caliper, I've lost (or probably used) the middle sized one (but if you need it you can probably use your old one, or get a spare from a LBC for very little).
I'll send them £35 posted, I was about to put them up for sale. If you send your email I'll send pics.0 -
You can pick up some SRAM Apex Clipers for about £35-37.
Same as Rival brakes (said to be better than 105) but have a adjustment screw too. Lighter and come with Swisstop Pads.0 -
Wiggle had ultegra 6700 for less than £60 last week.I think that is the best value.0
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5700 calipers are good. I swapped mine for 6800 and tbh didn't notice any difference.0
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I went from the rubbish brakes on my Trek 1.5 to 105's and it was a big improvement. Bought them very cheap in a sale last year.0
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Have put 105 calipers on two of my bikes to replace the stock Tektros. The difference is night and day, the 105's are superb stoppers for the price.0
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Kajjal wrote:I went from the rubbish brakes on my Trek 1.5 to 105's and it was a big improvement. Bought them very cheap in a sale last year.
Exactly what I'm talking about, mine is a Trek 1.2 2013 and the brakes are so bad it's scaring me every time I go out. I know it's a budget bike but even so they shouldn't be that dangerous. I even crashed into my own garden gate when I rode down my steep driveway, suddenly realised i couldn't stop! Whoops!!
I just swapped the brake pads out tonight from another bike which has 105 callipers and presume they are 105 pads as well. Made do difference, still poor brakes, so it must be the callipers.
Will try swapping out the whole callipers with 105 from the other bike and see what difference it makes.0 -
small_bloke wrote:Kajjal wrote:I went from the rubbish brakes on my Trek 1.5 to 105's and it was a big improvement. Bought them very cheap in a sale last year.
Exactly what I'm talking about, mine is a Trek 1.2 2013 and the brakes are so bad it's scaring me every time I go out. I know it's a budget bike but even so they shouldn't be that dangerous. I even crashed into my own garden gate when I rode down my steep driveway, suddenly realised i couldn't stop! Whoops!!
I just swapped the brake pads out tonight from another bike which has 105 callipers and presume they are 105 pads as well. Made do difference, still poor brakes, so it must be the callipers.
Will try swapping out the whole callipers with 105 from the other bike and see what difference it makes.
I was used to MTB disc brakes and on the first real road downhill I found out how poor the original brakes were by overshooting a corner and nearly crashing. Changed to 105's and it was much better in the dry but still poor in the wet. For heavier riders and in the wet rim brakes are not the best.0 -
Properly adjusted calipers will stop the wheel without much problem, even in the wet. The limiting factor with road bikes is always going to be the tyres, and in particular the contact area with the road.0
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^No, nothing so fancy.
Not too likely on the OP's £700 job though (.....trying to make out I'd thought of this already).0 -
I'm considering a 105 / Apex upgrade.
Will the Srams work as well with 105 5700 levers?
Any views on the comparison between the two? The Apex's cheaper, but performance wise....0 -
Milese wrote:I'm considering a 105 / Apex upgrade.
Will the Srams work as well with 105 5700 levers?
Any views on the comparison between the two? The Apex's cheaper, but performance wise....
Shim claim that their level/caliper combo has a magic pull ratio that gives extra braking. Apex brakes work fine with 5700 levers - I can't say in comparison with 5700 calipers, for reasons I give in second post.
I've still got the 105 calipers if anyone wants to pm me an offer..0 -
If the callipers are adjusted properly, then even budget stoppers should work well. The biggest improvement that you could make is with the pads. Upgrade to Swissstop or Kool Stop pads before ditching the callipers.0
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I noticed a massive difference when changing from 105 to 6800.markhewitt1978 wrote:5700 calipers are good. I swapped mine for 6800 and tbh didn't notice any difference.
They're so good I can't believe how I coped before
MattScott Foil Di2 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13020685&p=19496365#p19496365
Genesis Volare 853 viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13020702&p=19589281#p195892810 -
I switched from cheap calipers to ultegra 6700's (to be honest it was only because I wanted my components to match). Wow the difference actually amazed me, I thought all calipers would have done a similar job (wrongly).0
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We have this subject from time to time on this forum. I have asked this question before and I have had no reply so I will ask again.
Can anyone give me a technical reason why a mega expensive caliper will brake any better than a cheap one?
In my opinion if you have changed calipers and think the difference is" massive" the difference is in the pads or between your ears.0 -
lesfirth wrote:We have this subject from time to time on this forum. I have asked this question before and I have had no reply so I will ask again.
Can anyone give me a technical reason why a mega expensive caliper will brake any better than a cheap one?
In my opinion if you have changed calipers and think the difference is" massive" the difference is in the pads or between your ears.
For me the 105's had greater leverage , better pads and more control. Improved wet braking by fitting swisstops but still not that good in the wet.0 -
Mad_Malx wrote:^No, nothing so fancy.
Not too likely on the OP's £700 job though (.....trying to make out I'd thought of this already).
The stock Trek brakes are cheap Tektro's which are very poor however you adjust them. Rim brakes suffer the heavier you are and the wetter it gets. I weight about 100kg and compared to disc brakes rim brakes have a lot less power and feel. A 60kg rider would not notice as much.0 -
Kajjal wrote:lesfirth wrote:We have this subject from time to time on this forum. I have asked this question before and I have had no reply so I will ask again.
Can anyone give me a technical reason why a mega expensive caliper will brake any better than a cheap one?
In my opinion if you have changed calipers and think the difference is" massive" the difference is in the pads or between your ears.
For me the 105's had greater leverage , better pads and more control. Improved wet braking by fitting swisstops but still not that good in the wet.
What actually does this mean?!
"Greater leverage" - presumably, you mean that the caliper arms were longer between pivot and cable? Did you measure them? Longer arms = greater force for the same leverage at the expense of fine modulation. Whether one is better than the other probably depends on how weak your fingers are!
"Better pads". The pads aren't the calipers but this of course is the thing that actually makes the difference (and perhaps accounts for your feeling of greater leverage.
"More control" - that's just the same as the other two.
In reality, what matters is "do the new calipers (all else being equal, including the pads) stop you any more quickly than the old ones?" I doubt that you actually know that unless you actually took some measurements but I would suspect probably not.Faster than a tent.......0 -
matt-h wrote:
I noticed a massive difference when changing from 105 to 6800.markhewitt1978 wrote:5700 calipers are good. I swapped mine for 6800 and tbh didn't notice any difference.
They're so good I can't believe how I coped before
Matt
I switched my STI's from 5700 to 6700 and the difference in braking is marked; Mostly because with the 6700 you can brake with almost as much force from the hoods as you can from the drops (braking from the drops is similar), it means that some situations where with my 105 levers I had to get into the drops to ensure I had enough braking, I can now stay on the hoods.0 -
lesfirth wrote:We have this subject from time to time on this forum. I have asked this question before and I have had no reply so I will ask again.
Can anyone give me a technical reason why a mega expensive caliper will brake any better than a cheap one?
In my opinion if you have changed calipers and think the difference is" massive" the difference is in the pads or between your ears.
I had swisstops on both sets of callipers so it wasn't a change of pads that made a difference. The only thing that I can think of is that I could adjust the 'toeing in' on the 6700's and as mentioned also had more control from the hoods.
I've read posts/reviews that have mentioned better modulation with certain callipers but don't really know the technical ins and outs. :?0 -
Rolf F wrote:Kajjal wrote:lesfirth wrote:We have this subject from time to time on this forum. I have asked this question before and I have had no reply so I will ask again.
Can anyone give me a technical reason why a mega expensive caliper will brake any better than a cheap one?
In my opinion if you have changed calipers and think the difference is" massive" the difference is in the pads or between your ears.
For me the 105's had greater leverage , better pads and more control. Improved wet braking by fitting swisstops but still not that good in the wet.
What actually does this mean?!
"Greater leverage" - presumably, you mean that the caliper arms were longer between pivot and cable? Did you measure them? Longer arms = greater force for the same leverage at the expense of fine modulation. Whether one is better than the other probably depends on how weak your fingers are!
"Better pads". The pads aren't the calipers but this of course is the thing that actually makes the difference (and perhaps accounts for your feeling of greater leverage.
"More control" - that's just the same as the other two.
In reality, what matters is "do the new calipers (all else being equal, including the pads) stop you any more quickly than the old ones?" I doubt that you actually know that unless you actually took some measurements but I would suspect probably not.
Yes I compared them side by side to see what the difference is and the 105's have longer arms. A bit like me at 6ft6
The pads on the original brakes were poor as well.
The control comes from the 105's actually applying a useful braking force in way that can be controlled as required.
Yes they stop me a lot quicker due to the increased braking force and improved level of control over the increased braking force. On a 25% downhill in a village nearby I have to go very slow with the old brakes, with the 105's while I don't go as fast as I would with disc brakes there is a significant increase in speed due to being able to brake harder and later while having a higher speed in general.
Rim brakes are poor compared to disc brakes for riders at around 100kg. It is about the much lower braking force they apply which lighter riders would not notice. It is not about locking up wheels which I rarely do with either type of brake on road.0 -
Basically the calliper swap does work and make a difference...a big difference.
In summary, this is what I noticed so far when swapping the callipers between the two bikes.
Budget bike Trek 1.2 has Shimano Sora ( 9 speed ST3500) + cheap callipers + cheap pads = Poor braking
Expensive bike has 105 5700 throughout inc callipers and levers = Good Braking.
Budget Trek 1.2 has poor braking on the hoods. I can't stop the bike suddenly. There is increased braking when in the drops but you have to squeeze very hard. Not practical.
Swapped the 105 pads only over from expensive bike to budget bike. Made no difference. Still poor braking.
Swapped the 105 callipers + 105 pads from expensive bike to buget bike. Massive difference...i can now stop the bike when on the hoods easily.
Shimano normally specify lever and calliper combination. Perhaps the Sora levers aren't designed to work well with budget other brand callipers?
I can't explain why the 105 brakes work better but I've heard others in the bike club say similar things. The'yre Tiagra bike setup has poor brakes compared to 105 bikes.
So my test proves 105 brakes are better than cheap Tektro callipers. All other things being equal (levers, wheel rims, rider weight etc.)0 -
small_bloke wrote:Basically the calliper swap does work and make a difference...a big difference.
In summary, this is what I noticed so far when swapping the callipers between the two bikes.
Budget bike Trek 1.2 has Shimano Sora ( 9 speed ST3500) + cheap callipers + cheap pads = Poor braking
Expensive bike has 105 5700 throughout inc callipers and levers = Good Braking.
Budget Trek 1.2 has poor braking on the hoods. I can't stop the bike suddenly. There is increased braking when in the drops but you have to squeeze very hard. Not practical.
Swapped the 105 pads only over from expensive bike to budget bike. Made no difference. Still poor braking.
Swapped the 105 callipers + 105 pads from expensive bike to buget bike. Massive difference...i can now stop the bike when on the hoods easily.
Shimano normally specify lever and calliper combination. Perhaps the Sora levers aren't designed to work well with budget other brand callipers?
I can't explain why the 105 brakes work better but I've heard others in the bike club say similar things. The'yre Tiagra bike setup has poor brakes compared to 105 bikes.
So my test proves 105 brakes are better than cheap Tektro callipers. All other things being equal (levers, wheel rims, rider weight etc.)
This is your opinion to which you are quite rightly entitled. However in my opinion it is not a" technical" answer to my question. I am after technical reasons.0 -
small_bloke wrote:Basically the calliper swap does work and make a difference...a big difference.
In summary, this is what I noticed so far when swapping the callipers between the two bikes.
Budget bike Trek 1.2 has Shimano Sora ( 9 speed ST3500) + cheap callipers + cheap pads = Poor braking
Expensive bike has 105 5700 throughout inc callipers and levers = Good Braking.
Budget Trek 1.2 has poor braking on the hoods. I can't stop the bike suddenly. There is increased braking when in the drops but you have to squeeze very hard. Not practical.
Swapped the 105 pads only over from expensive bike to budget bike. Made no difference. Still poor braking.
Swapped the 105 callipers + 105 pads from expensive bike to buget bike. Massive difference...i can now stop the bike when on the hoods easily.
Shimano normally specify lever and calliper combination. Perhaps the Sora levers aren't designed to work well with budget other brand callipers?
I can't explain why the 105 brakes work better but I've heard others in the bike club say similar things. The'yre Tiagra bike setup has poor brakes compared to 105 bikes.
So my test proves 105 brakes are better than cheap Tektro callipers. All other things being equal (levers, wheel rims, rider weight etc.)
Afraid it doesn't prove anything. For proof you need data and controlled conditions and you haven't provided either.
The problem is, that all things being equal aside from the calipers (presume you also include amongst that the pad clearance from the rims as that is about the only variable I can see that might explain the facts as you describe them), as you said, it is hard to see any physical explanation for what you describe.Faster than a tent.......0 -
lesfirth wrote:
This is your opinion to which you are quite rightly entitled. However in my opinion it is not a" technical" answer to my question. I am after technical reasons.
Have you tried emailing shimano or campagnolo or sram to see what they have to say, instead of asking people who aren't scientists?0 -
"The main new features (5800) are an 11-speed drivetrain that shifts more precise and lighter than ever, improved brake power and better control of the bike. The shift levers have a compact grip which provides more comfort and control during a ride. The lever can be customized for different hand sizes with a 10mm screw type reach adjust.
Compared to the previous 105 groupset (5700) Shimano made the brake system more efficient and increased brake power with 10%. This is mainly due to the new symmetrical dual-pivot brake caliper. The brakes are compatible up to 28c tires and also available in a direct mount version (BR-5810)."0 -
Gozzy wrote:lesfirth wrote:
This is your opinion to which you are quite rightly entitled. However in my opinion it is not a" technical" answer to my question. I am after technical reasons.
Have you tried emailing shimano or campagnolo or sram to see what they have to say, instead of asking people who aren't scientists?
Do you think Shimano would admit that sora calpiers brake as good as dura ace?0
